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WMain00 posted:*shrugs* *hands you a badly printed copy of Weekly Revolutionary, this month featuring articles about why Jeremy Corbyn is bad.... for capitalism!* Edit: Everyone posting on this page has to add a trot paper article headline to the end of their post.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:13
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"Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader" I wonder how that'll affect things.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:14
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Also all British newspapers are rubbish regardless of editorial control and political leanings (though those also help make them poo poo) because their number of reporters and ability to actually gather news rather than simply reporting things from press conferences or taking things from off the wire has rapidly declined over the last few decades.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:15
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vodkat posted:The Guardian is not without its flaws, for there are many, and UKMT posters love to poo poo all over it because its the only thing they read and the left loves to split into a thousand tiny pieces over insignificant bullshit, but its still the best paper we have. Which probably tells you more about our miserable little country that it does about the actual content of the guardian. Yeah, The Guardian isn't a left wing newspaper mate. It's a liberal newspaper, it's firmly in the centre ground & it always has. It's to the right of the Daily Mirror for fucksake. There are good people who write for The Graun but there are an awful lot more like Jonathan Freedland & Matthew D'Ancona & Rafael Behr & Julie Bindel & Polly Toynbee & Suzanne Moore & Michael White & Simon Jenkins & of course Nick Cohen still writes for The Observer. As a news source The Graun is...well, about as good as we've got unfortunately, but especially their editorials & opinion pieces need to be taken with several large oil drums full of salt. I'm obviously very harsh on it, but only as harsh as they've been towards the Labour members & their choice for leader.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:15
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Heisenberg1276 posted:"Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader" Another referendum won't work if you wanted to Remain; do you really think over a million people voted Leave for a joke or thought it wouldn't actually happen? You'd have to just say you won't do it for it to have any impact on anything at all. Also it seems to be a thing with the PLP to want to keep having votes until they get the results they want, I don't see that being a strength in a democracy. Also leader of the opposition can't do anything about it, so he'd have to hope May bottles it until the next election as well. vvv Don't be an idiot. Even if he won the Tories will trigger article 50 and you'll have voted for nothing. namesake fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 21:17
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Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:19
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forkboy84 posted:I'm sorry that I don't believe Theresa May's statements about being a One Nation Tory. Cameron said exactly the same poo poo, & it was horseshit. What does thatcherite mean to you?
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Jul 13, 2016 21:19
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Who reads what: https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M
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Jul 13, 2016 21:19
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. lol he is in no position to deliver on that though? Well at least it's a policy difference. Will be interesting to see what Corbyn does in response.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:20
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. Did anyone tell Owen Smith what the leader of the opposition can actually do?
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Jul 13, 2016 21:21
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Duh, its right in the name. He'll oppose brexit.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:21
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. He can't actually do any of that. You're leaving.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:21
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. One issue voters are loving cancer
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Jul 13, 2016 21:24
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To be honest, all of the major UK broadsheets have their flaws, their hidden agendas, their political leanings, etc etc. Your best bet is to make sure you get a balance. I tend to read the Guardian, Telegraph and Times mostly, as well as BBC News. I also often check NYTimes and Washington Post for an across-the-pond view (but understanding they are not themselves balanced). The new 10 article limit on Telegraph, NYT and WP is annoying, though.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:25
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. It's a worthless pledge because he's not going to be Prime Minister. Putting that practicality aside, if you're going to ignore a referendum result then just loving ignore it, don't keep running plebiscites until you get the result you want. Breath Ray posted:What does thatcherite mean to you? Let me know when you're going to stop being a WUM & I'll get back to you.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:25
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I just read UKMT and figure anything that people don't whinge about in here probably doesn't matter.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:26
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Still this is going to make the leadership campaign really bloody interesting. Corbyn will probably hold fast with honouring the referendum and pressuring the negotiators and government to uphold as much of the legislation into British law as possible (the sensible option which would piss the least amount of people off) while having the government actively protect and develop jobs and industry so him debating the consequences of overruling the public simply in the interests of business and the status quo will be amazing.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:26
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. McClatchey papers are a good fair mix of view, but decent content US papers. The Washington Post is buzzfeed now by the way. example: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article89191922.html 
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Jul 13, 2016 21:27
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Undead Hippo posted:Alright, so it has happened. Owen Smith is going to offer a second referendum. Still not strong enough anti-Brexit promises being made by Smith, but I will take it as a starting position. I've said this was the one issue I'd potentially jump ship on Corbyn for, and I will. Hope Corbyn follows suit so I don't have to reward PLP scheming. This is so stupid because even if he becomes prime minister in time to do this we can't negotiate a deal until article 50 is invoked, and after that the only way to stop us leaving the EU in two years is a unanimous vote of all EU countries. So not only would we have to cut months off the negotiations to have time for a referendum campaign, the choices would be to accept the deal or CHAOS REIGNS.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:27
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forkboy84 posted:Yeah, The Guardian isn't a left wing newspaper mate. It's a liberal newspaper, it's firmly in the centre ground & it always has. It's to the right of the Daily Mirror for fucksake. They were also clearly anti-Sanders and really seem to be hostile to the left in generally. Also, I seen far fewer anti-austerity articles as time as gone on. This all makes sense when you consider they were also a Liberal party to begin with, and the Lib-Dems are can be fairly center-right economically (especially now). They are a "fiscally 'sensible', socially liberal" paper, just like the Lib-Dems. They still might be one of the better papers in Britain, but that is only because pretty much all of them are even more right-wing and/or just garbage. Granted, isn't that how political narratives are managed in the first place? Ardennes fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 21:27
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forkboy84 posted:It's a worthless pledge because he's not going to be Prime Minister. Putting that practicality aside, if you're going to ignore a referendum result then just loving ignore it, don't keep running plebiscites until you get the result you want. you've noticed the election he's standing in right?
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Jul 13, 2016 21:28
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E: Disclaimer, I am not Owen Smith but he might be reading UKMT and stealing my posts:quote:“The vast majority of Labour members and Labour members of parliament have been sitting, like in the back seat of a car, as we are careering towards a cliff and someone has got to wrest the steering wheel off the people who are causing this problem,” he said.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:28
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politicians when running for leader of a party lay out what they will do when they become prime minister
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Jul 13, 2016 21:29
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This is called politics
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Jul 13, 2016 21:30
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kustomkarkommando posted:politicians when running for leader of a party lay out what they will do when they become prime minister He will not be able to do the thing he has just promised to do. Lies in a manifesto are expected but you don't want them to be impossible from the outset.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:31
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kustomkarkommando posted:politicians when running for leader of a party lay out what they will do when they become prime minister Nobody wants a leadership challenge, except like 100 of you max.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:31
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JFairfax posted:you've noticed the election he's standing in right? Yes, I'm aware. That's sort of my point. He's running to become the Leader of the Opposition. By the time there's a General Election, we'll have left the EU. What Owen Smith plans to do about it is about as relevant as what I plan to do about it. kustomkarkommando posted:This is called politics No it's not. Politics isn't just "say any old poo poo to get you elected". Or rather it shouldn't be, & when people try to pull it off others should call them out on it. Though the point was "this one person is thinking about voting for Smith because of this empty, worthless pledge, & I felt like saying "that's a bad reason to vote for Smith because it's empty & worthless".
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Jul 13, 2016 21:32
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kustomkarkommando posted:politicians when running for leader of a party lay out what they will do when they become prime minister Generally though, remotely competent ones do not lay out policies which will in all likelihood be literally impossible as unless nobody invokes article 50 in the next 4 years he will have absolutely no ability to stop us leaving the EU. I suppose he could in theory still hold a referendum about it but it seems about as sensible as campaigning on a platform to undo the Iraq war because that turned out badly.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:32
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namesake posted:He will not be able to do the thing he has just promised to do. specifically saying he's offering a second referendum on whatever the finalized deal is - say eec membership or common market & open borders. which he could do if labour wins an election
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Jul 13, 2016 21:32
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I would give Samantha Cameron an in out referundum.. if you know what i mean fellas  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 13, 2016 21:32
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forkboy84 posted:Yes, I'm aware. That's sort of my point. He's running to become the Leader of the Opposition. By the time there's a General Election, we'll have left the EU. What Owen Smith plans to do about it is about as relevant as what I plan to do about it. no, I mean he's running in an election called because a group of people were not happy with the previous result and are doing it again until they get the outcome they desire
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Jul 13, 2016 21:33
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quote:It's a worthless pledge because he's not going to be Prime Minister. Are all of Corbyn's pledges similarly worthless? That feels like a double standard. Having a leader of the opposition who is advocating for a change I want to happen seems like a thing to vote for, regardless of whether they get into power. That's why I was voting for Corbyn at all. quote:One issue voters are loving cancer Sorry. I think it's a very important issue though. Quite beyond the economic turmoil, it's thrown a lot of people I am close to into a sea of uncertainty and doubt about their future. If I can do anything anything at all to reverse that I feel that I have to try. forkboy84 posted:It's a worthless pledge because he's not going to be Prime Minister. Putting that practicality aside, if you're going to ignore a referendum result then just loving ignore it, don't keep running plebiscites until you get the result you want. I would also happily vote for somebody whose pledge was to ignore the referendum result.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:33
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:I would give Samantha Cameron an in out referundum.. if you know what i mean fellas worst thread FTW
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Jul 13, 2016 21:34
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forkboy84 posted:Morning Star comrade. Yeah but it's like 10 pages long.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:34
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kustomkarkommando posted:specifically saying he's offering a second referendum on whatever the finalized deal is - say eec membership or common market & open borders. He can't even do that unless the tories wait until 2018 to invoke article 50.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:34
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:I would give Samantha Cameron an in out referundum.. if you know what i mean fellas That's bestiality friend.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:34
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I mean its a dumb idea and all but saying "lets have a vote on whether we retain access to the common market specifically" could be held if parliament wanted it to be
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Jul 13, 2016 21:34
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JFairfax posted:no, I mean he's running in an election called because a group of people were not happy with the previous result and are doing it again until they get the outcome they desire Oh right. Yeah, I get you now. That's a good point/joke. Friendly Humour posted:One issue voters are loving cancer My one issue is "full communism now". Fight me. Chucat posted:Yeah but it's like 10 pages long. There's also Private Eye. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 21:35
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You can actually take back article 50 once you begin negotiates, according to the legal review done for the House of Lords. So you can invoke article 50, negotiate a exit deal, send it to referendum, and then uninvoke article 50 if it comes back a no.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:35
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kustomkarkommando posted:specifically saying he's offering a second referendum on whatever the finalized deal is - say eec membership or common market & open borders. kustomkarkommando posted:I mean its a dumb idea and all but saying "lets have a vote on whether we retain access to the common market specifically" could be held if parliament wanted it to be Ok, not impossible, just utterly, utterly stupid. What if the UK public reject the deal? The nation will almost certainly just get ejected with no deal at all. That's making the whole Brexit collapse a Labour problem. It's utter suicide. nothing to seehere posted:You can actually take back article 50 once you begin negotiates, according to the legal review done for the House of Lords. So you can invoke article 50, negotiate a exit deal, send it to referendum, and then uninvoke article 50 if it comes back a no. I don't think the EU would stand for that kind of brinkmanship bullshit to be honest. namesake fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 21:36
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