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Deki posted:It's kind of weird but I'll disagree with the Grognard focus being what ended up killing Wildstar. It didn't help but most of the poo poo hidden behind horrible grinds wasn't even stuff casual players would want to do. Why not both? What max-level content is there for those not interested in raiding? As far as I can tell, it's daily quests and housing. When a significant portion of the endgame is spent on something a casual player can't or won't do, people get bored. Combine that with the showstopping bugs at every level and you have a recipe for failure.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:06
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Shy posted:master x master, an upcoming moba I love how they project MXM making in 3 months what WildStar has made in 2 years.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:13
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CoffeeBooze posted:Hiring Youtubers to make promotional videos is a pretty good idea. Wildstar has such a poor reputation that a regular marketing campaign just wouldnt work. That would infuriate the remaining true believers and at this point I doubt itd bring in enough people to fix things. Carbine probably needs a financial shot in the arm to do anything to save the game
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Jul 3, 2016 21:01
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MREBoy posted:I love how they project MXM making in 3 months what WildStar has made in 2 years. Its a rather conservative estimate too.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:12
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At this point, if they really want to save Wildstar and make it profitable, they'd have to pull something like FFXIV: ARR. Fire a bunch of head honchos, get someone in who can give a new and better direction to the team, and then start remaking it into something better. Whether you would have to make an entirely new game or just improve the old one, that would be up to whether they'd have the money, time, and people to do one or the other. With XIV, Final Fantasy was a franchise that was "too big to fail," so they threw everything into remaking it; otherwise we probably would have ended up with the patched up 1.28 as the baseline, which to be frank was still quite terrible (despite what the Tanaka-apologists say). With Wildstar... it doesn't look like it would be getting much support, what with all the other much more profitable titles vying for attention from NCSoft.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:02
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Stop repeating that they need to pull a FFXIV. Its impossible to do it at this stage. e-It took like 3 years to get ffxiv 2.0 operational after 1.0 was mismanaged. Yeah it was like 2 years under yoshi at the time but its still a long time to go to unfuck a game. The only reason why it happened was because SE had a brand riding on FFXIVs survival. Right now if wildstar gets shutdown absolutely no one will blame NCsoft for what happened. Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 22:03
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Mizuti posted:Why not both? It is both, but a lot of people attribute wildstar's failure to their catering of those grognards, even though really it wasn't even that, it was lead developers getting in over their heads and huffing too many of their own farts about HARDCORE. Wildstar's leveling had this kind of sensation overload baked into its core, from the loud color schemes and the way the game itself would address you (not just calling you a cupcake, but being EXTREEEEEEEEEEME about everything all the time) to the challenges that would pop up, like when you go to collect your 10 robot bear asses and the game just steps in and goes "HEY HOW FAST CAN YOU DO IT? CLOCK'S TICKIN GOGOGOGOGOGO" on top of the game never giving you any downtime while questing, so you were either in these intense fights with regular mobs or just not playing because you needed a break, and generally everything just being very unchill. The housing was popular because it was the only thing you could do in Wildstar that was chill and didn't bug you about poo poo constantly. Until you put in the challenge plugs, then you were back on the EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEME wagon. This isn't even mentioning things like holding shift to dash while mounted (my left pinkie actually has a phantom ache that pops up whenever I think of wildstar) and all of the various bugs. All of this is the barrier to entry just to get to raiding. Them making GBS threads all over grogs who actually made it to raiding was just the icing on the cake.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:38
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Morglon posted:Oh please that poo poo got unbearable pretty much the second you started doing it. Enemies were designed to be as annoying as possible, that entire place was horrible and probably designed by someone who really wanted you to not waste your time on that game. You want to do your quest? Wade through all this trash. You don't want to kill the trash mobs on the way to the quest? Too bad, they all have poo poo like skills that slow or pull when you try to get past them. The whole area was tuned for group clears even though it's not worth doing as a group. I stuck around from launch until the giant enemy crab island event where it was apparent that the endgame design philosophy wasn't going to get better. It's a shame, GW1 was a great MORPG.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:51
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Stop repeating that they need to pull a FFXIV. Its impossible to do it at this stage. "They need to pull an FFXIV to save Wildstar" and "It is impossible for Carbine to pull an FFXIV" aren't mutually exclusive. They are both true statements.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:58
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how did this get here
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Jul 3, 2016 22:58
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Wildstar's leveling had this kind of sensation overload baked into its core, from the loud color schemes and the way the game itself would address you (not just calling you a cupcake, but being EXTREEEEEEEEEEME about everything all the time) to the challenges that would pop up, like when you go to collect your 10 robot bear asses and the game just steps in and goes "HEY HOW FAST CAN YOU DO IT? CLOCK'S TICKIN GOGOGOGOGOGO" on top of the game never giving you any downtime while questing, so you were either in these intense fights with regular mobs or just not playing because you needed a break, and generally everything just being very unchill. The housing was popular because it was the only thing you could do in Wildstar that was chill and didn't bug you about poo poo constantly. Until you put in the challenge plugs, then you were back on the EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEME wagon. This is still a big issue with the game. The game just annoys the hell out of you by constantly bugging you with poo poo that you dont need or dont need to know, which makes it really hard to just play the game. Whoever is responsible for this aspect of the design needs to find a new line of work because it is absolutely obnoxious.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:13
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Morglon posted:Oh please that poo poo got unbearable pretty much the second you started doing it. Enemies were designed to be as annoying as possible, that entire place was horrible and probably designed by someone who really wanted you to not waste your time on that game. I loved GW2 until I got to Orr and the endgame consisted of doing loops of the map in a big blob of players forever.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:48
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:
This. The moment you logged in for the first time your UI already looked like something a hardcore WoW raider would expect to have.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:16
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malhavok posted:This. The moment you logged in for the first time your UI already looked like something a hardcore WoW raider would expect to have. I think that's wrong because I did my fair share of hardcore wow raiding and everyone I did it with tried to have as little clutter and make the screen as clean as possible. Wildstar's default UI looked like what the sort of people crying about casuals getting epics think a raiding UI is supposed to look like.
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Jul 4, 2016 05:08
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Those people made the game.
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Jul 4, 2016 06:55
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CoffeeBooze posted:This is still a big issue with the game. The game just annoys the hell out of you by constantly bugging you with poo poo that you dont need or dont need to know, which makes it really hard to just play the game. Whoever is responsible for this aspect of the design needs to find a new line of work because it is absolutely obnoxious. The most WildStar moment happens very early in the Aurin/Mordesh starting area. You're just running from the first town-like hub to the next quest zone when you see butterflies merrily flapping near the path. Naturally you'll wanna run into one for shits and giggles. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED RUN INTO 10 MORE BUTTERFLIES BEFORE TIME RUNS OUT GO GO GO The butterflies also make you sparkle and briefly run faster when you touch them. You can never slow down. Ever. Speaking of never stopping, you know what woulda been cool? Shark people. When the very first kinda blurry screenshot of a Mordesh leaked, people saw their blue skin and implants and theorized they were Ape Sapienesque fish people with water rebreathers. That woulda been more interesting than what we got: undead elves in space.  After that leak in particular they made it so the entire time you were playing the closed beta your user name was plastered diagonally all over the screen, thus any leaks would ideally be traced back to the source. I don't know why I didn't see all this coming, either.
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Jul 4, 2016 08:03
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Anoia posted:The most WildStar moment happens very early in the Aurin/Mordesh starting area. You're just running from the first town-like hub to the next quest zone when you see butterflies merrily flapping near the path. Naturally you'll wanna run into one for shits and giggles. In both Paragon and Wildstar during the alpha tests they had a unique numerical identifier plastered diagonally. Paragon was particularly bad because the LOD and AA were really terrible at the time so it sucked bad to start with trying to see things at range, then having text obscuring everything made it even worse. I am kinda surprised they didn't put the identifier in the beta until it started leaking, I guess because there were people who weren't playing under the threat of their friends getting fired they were less worried about leaks?
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Jul 4, 2016 09:42
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Stop repeating that they need to pull a FFXIV. Its impossible to do it at this stage. They should. Then again, I'm biased against NCSoft for their eternal fuckery with CoH.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:34
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Byolante posted:In both Paragon and Wildstar during the alpha tests they had a unique numerical identifier plastered diagonally. Paragon was particularly bad because the LOD and AA were really terrible at the time so it sucked bad to start with trying to see things at range, then having text obscuring everything made it even worse. I am kinda surprised they didn't put the identifier in the beta until it started leaking, I guess because there were people who weren't playing under the threat of their friends getting fired they were less worried about leaks? That only got slapped in there when people really started to complain about the lack of changes for the better as the test went forward. Consider how long Warrior was utterly hosed as a viable tank, and how true believers insisted that was a feature and not a bug. "It's refreshing to see a traditional tank class that's better at dps than tanking! As a stalker tank I applaud this bold design decision!" And then as screenshots spread more and more people asked wtf was up with those female proportions, which led to those rushed build options courtesy the warp tool. The one thing I'm sad they changed was to go with Aurin being a matriarchal society, the female models were twice the size of the males. That didn't last and they were rendered equally tiny. Anoia fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 11:50
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Unguided posted:The real question is how does Heroes of Newark still exist and does it even have a playerbase? Yeah, it's the MOBA that didn't fail miserably (read: die) but is by current standards totally unsuccessful. The MOBA bubble has already popped, which is a lot faster than MMOs took to do the same.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:05
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Liquid Communism posted:They should. Then again, I'm biased against NCSoft for their eternal fuckery with CoH. NCsoft has continuously tried to prop Carbine. Like they were ok with them completely changing the gameplay midway trough production which added like another year of delays and then they gave them another 6 months after that to try and polish the game, missing the crucial holiday release they were aiming for. After that they decided to keep supporting the game way beyond after its obvious that the whole thing is fubar and there is no way to fix it other than completely remaking the whole thing, which is frankly impossible since you might as well make a new game in the first place. Wildstars IP is worth less than 0 right now.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:38
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Cao Ni Ma posted:NCsoft has continuously tried to prop Carbine. Like they were ok with them completely changing the gameplay midway trough production which added like another year of delays and then they gave them another 6 months after that to try and polish the game, missing the crucial holiday release they were aiming for. After that they decided to keep supporting the game way beyond after its obvious that the whole thing is fubar and there is no way to fix it other than completely remaking the whole thing, which is frankly impossible since you might as well make a new game in the first place. Wildstars IP is worth less than 0 right now. Carbine's leadership deserves a lot of the blame sure, but NCSoft was also stingy as gently caress iirc leading to issues with attracting talent or even making sure the entire team was competent because of the discrepancy between pay and cost of living. they couldn't really afford to fire lovely devs because no good ones were willing to take their place.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:04
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Deki posted:Carbine's leadership deserves a lot of the blame sure, but NCSoft was also stingy as gently caress iirc leading to issues with attracting talent or even making sure the entire team was competent because of the discrepancy between pay and cost of living. they couldn't really afford to fire lovely devs because no good ones were willing to take their place. This sounds like some poo poo that someone on Reddit made up because "those ncsoft assholes probably did it." How exactly are they stingy for giving them an extra year and a half to finish this tire fire? Plus, by all accounts, the people making the problems were those making decisions, not the guys doing the grunt work.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:09
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:This sounds like some poo poo that someone on Reddit made up because "those ncsoft assholes probably did it." How exactly are they stingy for giving them an extra year and a half to finish this tire fire? Plus, by all accounts, the people making the problems were those making decisions, not the guys doing the grunt work. They probably should have spent more time working on their game, then paying non-staffers to write glassdoor reviews that actually painted their company in a positive light or at the very least- a decent studio to work for. Cao Ni Ma posted:Stop repeating that they need to pull a FFXIV. Its impossible to do it at this stage. It's worth noting that the Final Fantasy franchise has heartstrings amongst gamers ranging from 50 to 12 at this point, with a long history of story driven gameplay. WildStar is a failed recreation of what Blizzard did to create WoW i.e. take ideas from a different game (EQ), and make them more accessible, but instead they took ideas from a genre, made it cliché as possible, then ramped up the difficulty to unemployed basement dweller. I guess there's a small collective that want to spend hours upon hours collecting bear asses and doing endless attunements- but that's a pretty small, yet exceedingly vocal minority.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:12
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:This sounds like some poo poo that someone on Reddit made up because "those ncsoft assholes probably did it." How exactly are they stingy for giving them an extra year and a half to finish this tire fire? Plus, by all accounts, the people making the problems were those making decisions, not the guys doing the grunt work. To put it into perspective, wildstar at its peak was about 300 person strong right? Just another extra year would have cost them 25-30 million dollars at or slightly bellow industry standard wages. Wildstar was staffed by a lot of people that clearly knew what they were doing, the problem was the top echelons clearly didnt since they designed WS in the first place.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:13
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Cao Ni Ma posted:[...] missing the crucial holiday release they were aiming for. [...] The holiday release would've been poo poo for them anyway. Just a reminder that wildstar released just before summer started proper, at a time when wow was in the pre-expac lull, and no other mmos were doing anything really (barring ESO which doesn't really count since I can count the number of people I know who cared about it on one hand), but they still managed to royally gently caress it up in every way. They could not have had a better time of release.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:20
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Wildstar is used by ISIS as a torture technique
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Jul 4, 2016 22:58
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Cao Ni Ma posted:To put it into perspective, wildstar at its peak was about 300 person strong right? Just another extra year would have cost them 25-30 million dollars at or slightly bellow industry standard wages. Wildstar was staffed by a lot of people that clearly knew what they were doing, the problem was the top echelons clearly didnt since they designed WS in the first place. I can think of at least another 20 on top of that. They had large outsourced QA and content gen teams.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:33
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Mizuti posted:Why not both? I guess this is where I chime in with the wildstar endgame report as to what there was to do: 1. Vet shiphands (They renamed them to something else but I forgot) scale to party size and are easy to solo. 2. Vet Adventures are the first "You need 5 to do this" content, and were relatively easy: The problem is several of them were "Bad", malgrave trail was so bad that it got it's own in house meme for most goon guilds. 3. Vet Dungeons: Player power creep was so high after F2P that I could beat most of the dps challenges by holding my 1 key down. When we were attuning raiders we generally front loaded with a competent dps or two who could just carry people through the attunement process. 3. Raiding: We had about 7 people who were "Good" and 13 who couldn't even complete a vet dungeon without a carry and we still got through most of the first raid. I actually pugged the whole thing prior to stepping in with the guild so I could see it myself (I was the raid lead/caller). With that said dungeons and raiding were all still too hard. DPS checks were easy to pass, but don't stand in dumb checks were about 2-3 times more fatal in wildstar than they ever were in WoW. Entry level versions of the first raid (LFR) and entry level versions of the first dungeons would have been nice. Ultimately what killed it for me was every single task was just a little bit harder than it had to be. I liked that most stats were in runes, but I hated all the poo poo I had ot go through to rune my stuff. I hated ability/amp points entirely, and not the systems themselves, the fact that I had to unlock more levels past max just to not suck. Some classes were way too complicated to play, and tank balance was all over the map. Ultimately when designing an MMO you should assume that 80% of the people that play it are going to be stupid as gently caress, and need to be led around by the nose. Wildstar didn't do any of that, and now it's dead. Byolante posted:I think that's wrong because I did my fair share of hardcore wow raiding and everyone I did it with tried to have as little clutter and make the screen as clean as possible. Wildstar's default UI looked like what the sort of people crying about casuals getting epics think a raiding UI is supposed to look like. Most people I knew that raided used UI replacements just like WoW. Mine consisted of Grid (Just like the WoW version), a proc timer, a deadly boss mods equivalent, and a resource bar (think combo point bar). This game relied way too much on you seeing poo poo going on to cover your screen in garbage. But yeah the default UI liked to dump confusing noise making garbage all over the place and it was mega confusing. Just entering a new zone could light up your box with 2-3 questgivers asking you to go meet them. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 22:43
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Orv posted:Yeah, it's the MOBA that didn't fail miserably (read: die) but is by current standards totally unsuccessful. The MOBA bubble has already popped, which is a lot faster than MMOs took to do the same. Ironically, S2 has since sold off HoN and made a new moba that's even farther from DotA than League. It's doing hilariously awful, with development in NA seemingly dead as they try to hang on to their new Asian playerbase. They've since announced a sequel to Savage which has lost them whatever fans they had left.
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Jul 7, 2016 10:41
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I have some friends who stayed with hon for a long time, because its netcode and responsiveness was actually good, and the game performed with minimal latency, unlike (early?) dota 2. Plus, it's allegedly much faster paced (i never played enough of either to notice). No idea if they still play though. I know some of them have since moved to lol. I played hon from their beta launch until they removed the option to zoom out to normal levels for monitor sizes that exist since 2000.  I feel for people playing on their 14" screens, but the very dumb limited zoom feels awfully claustrophobic on a 30" screen, to the point of making me uncomfortable.
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Jul 7, 2016 10:56
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http://steamcharts.com/app/376570#3m
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Jul 14, 2016 11:17
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Wow, more players than Battleborn.
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Jul 14, 2016 11:38
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I watched a stream yesterday, where someone checked out various housing plots. That is a really cool feature, and what Blizz should have added to wod, instead of hot garbage garrissons.
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Jul 14, 2016 12:10
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mike12345 posted:I watched a stream yesterday, where someone checked out various housing plots. That is a really cool feature, and what Blizz should have added to wod, instead of hot garbage garrissons. One shiny piece of poo poo, in a vast ocean of turd, does not a good game make.
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Jul 14, 2016 13:20
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I played this game yesterday after not touching it since beta. It's actually pretty fun now, for an mmo. Our healer and a dps left in the level 15 adventure, and we finished it anyway by not standing in the fire. Then I did the level 20 dungeon and it was pretty fun too. Also leveling is pretty fast
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Jul 14, 2016 13:22
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mike12345 posted:I watched a stream yesterday, where someone checked out various housing plots. That is a really cool feature, and what Blizz should have added to wod, instead of hot garbage garrissons. That was actually supposed to happen. Garrisons were planned to be able to be built in every zone. Then, just like the rest of the expansion, was cut for time.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:30
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AbrahamLincolnLog posted:That was actually supposed to happen. Garrisons were planned to be able to be built in every zone. Then, just like the rest of the expansion, was cut for time.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:57
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Not to Wildstar's extent, no. But there was definitely more planned than what we got. You were going to be able to pick any location, as well as which appearances you'd have for your interior buildings, on top of just plain more building choices, but it was all cut.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:59
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Rorus Raz posted:They were never going to be anywhere close to Wildstar housing though. Blizzard clearly wanted them to have strong hooks into the core gameplay, whereas for Wildstar it could be a major motivation for playing the game. I think WoD had plans for more customization of garrisons, but interior designer was never going to be a major mechanic. Yeah some guy in Wildstar succesfully recreated the ship from firefly on his plot, another person made a star wars walker, and so on.
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Jul 14, 2016 15:00
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