BSS Chat about the Long Hot Summer for July

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > BSS Chat about the Long Hot Summer for July

Alaois: Feb 7, 2012

Skwirl posted:

Nah, he's definitely a huge pervert, mostly because all artist's are huge perverts, most of them just hide it better. He's a great artist too.

some artists are fun perverts, like Stjepan Sejic, Frank Cho's just a creepy and whiny pervert

# ? Jul 15, 2016 06:40

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 12:19

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Amanda Conner is a really fun pervert. Her and Frank Cho have some of the best modern cheesecake, but Cho hangs himself by his personality.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 06:49

redbackground: Sep 24, 2007; BEHOLD!
OPTIC BLAST!; Grimey Drawer

Teenage Fansub posted:

e: I'll post as X-O for a sec "Just read Legends of Wonder Woman! gently caress all other comics!"

He's not wrong!

# ? Jul 15, 2016 06:52

Lightning Lord: Feb 21, 2013; $200 a day, plus expenses

I think there are basically two classes of cheesecake artists.

The first, more common type, basically prize T&A above all else, to the detriment of the story they're trying to tell and their cartooning. Guys who draw things like the Fantastic Four facing down Doctor Doom, but the staging is all hosed so the reader can see Sue Storm's rear end and boobs at all times qualify here. Ed Benes, Greg Land, Greg Horn(y), Jim Balent and such fall into this category. These are the guys who if given a job drawing a She-Hulk kids picture book, would give her cartoonishly giant boobs, ripped clothes, the full works.

The second are those who can draw cake without undermining the story, and can also draw other things. If it's inappropriate for the comic they're drawing, they'll refrain. This would be Amanda Conner, Cameron Stewart, Dave Stevens, Matt Baker, Wally Wood, Adam Hughes, etc. A good example that might get a lot of people to understand is Bruce Timm, he's best known for BTAS, but when you google him you get things like a topless Dejah Thoris. But BtAS didn't really reflect that side of his work, barring stuff like Roxy Rocket. Also these artists can have bad days too - Guillem March is generally a decent example but man that infamous Catwoman 0 cover was not his finest hour.

Usually the former are out and out creeps too.

This dichotomy is also the answer to the "How come it's ok when so and so does it but not when other so and so does!?" In my opinion, it's never just about skin, or attractive people existing. If Bruce Timm had Batgirl's rear end be a prominent feature in BtAS, it would have been a problem. It's about loving up the product for that end, and as in Cho's case, being a creepy rear end in a top hat. No one wants to expel all pin-up/cheesecake artistry from comics, at least I don't think so. We just don't want it to be the default presentation for all women comics characters across the board, and for it to not appear where inappropriate. I wouldn't have Jim Silke be the cover artist on Wonder Woman, but I do think there's a place for him in the art world, sure. That's part of why the whole "what do you want, superheroines to be in burqas!?" derailing argument falls so short. (And I would like more Muslim superheroines, burqas, hijabs or not, yes)

Cho, strictly speaking of his work, is actually kind of in the middle, or at least he's produced comics that fall into both categories. But his 13 year old redditor personality seals the deal on where I'd place him.

Also, don't forget that a lot of respected comics artists did or do porn to pay the bills or because they just want to. Brandon Graham, Colleen Coover, etc.

Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Jul 15, 2016

# ? Jul 15, 2016 07:18

X-O: Apr 28, 2002; Long Live The King!

redbackground posted:

He's not wrong!

Nope, I'm not. It's great.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 08:24

Ferrule: Feb 23, 2007; Yo!

Die Laughing posted:

Amanda Conner

Speaking of, is The Pro any good? anyone?

# ? Jul 15, 2016 13:43

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Frank Cho is definitely voting for Trump.

E: The power was out for 10 hours yesterday on my day off, I am not happy about this.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 15, 2016

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:06

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Ferrule posted:

Speaking of, is The Pro any good? anyone?

Super cum blows a wing off a airplane

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:09

Edge & Christian: May 20, 2001; Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

Lightning Lord posted:

I enjoy stuff like Kangarat Murder Society, his Morrison comic annotations, movie reviews with Chris Sims, etc but you guys actually posted with him, so... I dunno. I have no doubt he restricted his bongisms to his BSS career though.

I don't want to be too much of a jerk but since other people were being jerks pretty explicitly, it might be telling that the people shittalking how terrible d00gz was as a poster are the same longtime posters that complain in general about the bad old days when we had a moderator that made people support their arguments and cite their funny panels and a bunch of other KILLJOY BULLSHIT in an attempt to make this a good forum to talk about comics in.

Eventually that evil moderator stepped down and people were (for a time) able to post random photoshops of old Batman covers and one line speculations about Power Girl's titties under a red sun and just generally chill and have fun and go full BYOB. And all of his "evil friends" like d00gz ran off, either out of slavish loyalty to their evil king, or just because things took a big of a nosedive. A pretty decent chunk of those people are (like d00gz) probably bloggers, writers, cartoonists, or editors you also enjoy the work of. There's an excellent chance that as the years past and they got deeper into their careers their posts would have dried up anyway, but let's take the poo poo-talking of the walking embodiment of My Uncle Works At Nintendo with a grain of salt. Same with what I say, I guess.

This isn't to say that there aren't good posters on here now, both old and new. I just get tired of a small group of what I consider to be some of the worst posters on here constantly bemoaning what horrible assholes a small group of what I considered the best posters on here (d00gz and hermanos in particular) were.

Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 15, 2016

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:11

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

The best posters can also be assholes.

In fact it's more often than not.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:19

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

I like d00gz. :kiddo:

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:24

muscles like this!: Jan 17, 2005

How can you have a Wonder Woman costume that is showing too much skin? It barely covers everything as is.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:26

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

Lightning Lord posted:

I think there are basically two classes of cheesecake artists.

The first, more common type, basically prize T&A above all else, to the detriment of the story they're trying to tell and their cartooning. Guys who draw things like the Fantastic Four facing down Doctor Doom, but the staging is all hosed so the reader can see Sue Storm's rear end and boobs at all times qualify here. Ed Benes, Greg Land, Greg Horn(y), Jim Balent and such fall into this category. These are the guys who if given a job drawing a She-Hulk kids picture book, would give her cartoonishly giant boobs, ripped clothes, the full works.

The second are those who can draw cake without undermining the story, and can also draw other things. If it's inappropriate for the comic they're drawing, they'll refrain. This would be Amanda Conner, Cameron Stewart, Dave Stevens, Matt Baker, Wally Wood, Adam Hughes, etc. A good example that might get a lot of people to understand is Bruce Timm, he's best known for BTAS, but when you google him you get things like a topless Dejah Thoris. But BtAS didn't really reflect that side of his work, barring stuff like Roxy Rocket. Also these artists can have bad days too - Guillem March is generally a decent example but man that infamous Catwoman 0 cover was not his finest hour.

Usually the former are out and out creeps too.

This dichotomy is also the answer to the "How come it's ok when so and so does it but not when other so and so does!?" In my opinion, it's never just about skin, or attractive people existing. If Bruce Timm had Batgirl's rear end be a prominent feature in BtAS, it would have been a problem. It's about loving up the product for that end, and as in Cho's case, being a creepy rear end in a top hat. No one wants to expel all pin-up/cheesecake artistry from comics, at least I don't think so. We just don't want it to be the default presentation for all women comics characters across the board, and for it to not appear where inappropriate. I wouldn't have Jim Silke be the cover artist on Wonder Woman, but I do think there's a place for him in the art world, sure. That's part of why the whole "what do you want, superheroines to be in burqas!?" derailing argument falls so short. (And I would like more Muslim superheroines, burqas, hijabs or not, yes)

Cho, strictly speaking of his work, is actually kind of in the middle, or at least he's produced comics that fall into both categories. But his 13 year old redditor personality seals the deal on where I'd place him.

Also, don't forget that a lot of respected comics artists did or do porn to pay the bills or because they just want to. Brandon Graham, Colleen Coover, etc.

I'd go a hair further and say there's also an element of how the artists approach that element of their work (also, guys like Balent and Land actually CAN draw other stuff, it's actually a little unfortunate that they don't choose to do so more often, because when drawing things like dinosaurs or giant alien monsters, they can look pretty good).
A guy like Cho or an Erik Larsen, who has a history of drawing less objectionable work, from a T&A stance, but pitches a hissy fit because of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD BECAUSE I DREW WONDER WOMAN'S NIPPLES POKING THROUGH HER TOP or whatever the current 'outrage' of the day is, is a lot worse to me than a guy like Jim Balent who draws tig ol' bitties in his self-published comic and commissions and doesn't really bother anyone outside of that.

DrProsek posted:

He is but honestly it's not that great. This week's issue felt better than the previous ones and it was just basically just a retelling of her origin.

I'd go further and say this week's was great. Yes the last 12 months has already had like 4 retellings of the origin, but it feels like all of them at least had a point in the sense that they highlight different elements, and also manage to begin to coalesce the kind of thing that makes us not need to see the Batman origin or Uncle Ben get shot again, in having a fairly consistent origin.

Also yes, a common element is basically that Diana had chicks falling at her feet all over the place on the island. (Morrison's version has a couple, Bombshells has Mera, Rucka has a half dozen mentioned...)

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:28

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

muscles like this? posted:

How can you have a Wonder Woman costume that is showing too much skin? It barely covers everything as is.

You hike the skirt up.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:29

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

Also context matters. Let's say it was Achilles on that cover, wearing a similar skirted armour outfit... you really think Cho would have the skirt pulled up there?

# ? Jul 15, 2016 14:32

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

So I'm not claiming that this is what is actually going on, but some RUMORS cropped up in another place on the internet.

Basically orders on all DC books, including Wonder Woman are much higher than expected, even more so when you factor in advance reorders. Cho signed a deal based on initial expectations and now that the books are blowing the gently caress up in sales he wants more money and isn't getting it.

Someone who may or may not work at the DC offices may or may not have posted this.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 15:05

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Alaois posted:

some artists are fun perverts, like Stjepan Sejic

Or Chris Claremont!

Rhyno posted:

So I'm not claiming that this is what is actually going on, but some RUMORS cropped up in another place on the internet.

Basically orders on all DC books, including Wonder Woman are much higher than expected, even more so when you factor in advance reorders. Cho signed a deal based on initial expectations and now that the books are blowing the gently caress up in sales he wants more money and isn't getting it.

Someone who may or may not work at the DC offices may or may not have posted this.

It is just like him to fabricate OUTRAGE! out of thin air for the sake of getting his anti robocop fans to love him more.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 15:43

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Rhyno posted:

So I'm not claiming that this is what is actually going on, but some RUMORS cropped up in another place on the internet.

Basically orders on all DC books, including Wonder Woman are much higher than expected, even more so when you factor in advance reorders. Cho signed a deal based on initial expectations and now that the books are blowing the gently caress up in sales he wants more money and isn't getting it.

Someone who may or may not work at the DC offices may or may not have posted this.

Because those extra sales are thanks to his variant covers, I'm sure.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 16:12

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

Rhyno posted:

So I'm not claiming that this is what is actually going on, but some RUMORS cropped up in another place on the internet.

Basically orders on all DC books, including Wonder Woman are much higher than expected, even more so when you factor in advance reorders. Cho signed a deal based on initial expectations and now that the books are blowing the gently caress up in sales he wants more money and isn't getting it.

Someone who may or may not work at the DC offices may or may not have posted this.

Can't wait for BC to report this as fact!

# ? Jul 15, 2016 16:35

A Tin Of Beans: Nov 25, 2013

I find Frank Cho so depressing, because his art's really great but his attitude is so insanely off-putting that it takes the fun out of anything he works on. :smith:

At least this latest hissy fit was hilarious. I know posting about the dude is basically giving him what he wants, but goddamn, haha.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 16:40

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

A Tin Of Beans posted:

I find Frank Cho so depressing, because his art's really great but his attitude is so insanely off-putting that it takes the fun out of anything he works on.

This is how I feel about Dilbert.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 16:42

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Aphrodite posted:

Because those extra sales are thanks to his variant covers, I'm sure.

I have no doubt that he thinks it is.

Endless Mike posted:

Can't wait for BC to report this as fact!

Wouldn't be the first time RJ posted something from SA as a fact.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:02

NorgLyle: Sep 20, 2002; Do you think I posted to this forum because I value your companionship?

WickedHate posted:

This is how I feel about Dilbert.

You feel like Dilbert has really great art?

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:04

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Rhyno posted:

Wouldn't be the first time RJ posted something from SA as a fact.

BREAKING: New Green Arrow/Robocop crossover in the works!

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:16

A Tin Of Beans: Nov 25, 2013

NorgLyle posted:

You feel like Dilbert has really great art?

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:24

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

NorgLyle posted:

You feel like Dilbert has really great art?

It's often funny(especially in the past, but has taken some steps down the last few years) but Scott Adams is like, batshit insane.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:34

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Before we get started, I want to set out the terms here.

If you've ever argued in favor of Squirrel Girl art, you must sit this one out.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:41

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

Rhyno posted:

Wouldn't be the first time RJ posted something from SA as a fact.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 17:46

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

Aphrodite posted:

If you've ever argued in favor of Squirrel Girl art, you must sit this one out.

I have found it. The most wrong opinion. It's beautiful.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 18:07

WickedHate: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Squirrel Girl art looks terrible out of context but flows better when you're reading an issue.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 18:08

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

WickedHate posted:

Squirrel Girl art looks terrible out of context but flows better when you're reading an issue.

It's skillfully done ugly art.

That's why whether you call it good or bad, you're right. If you call the artist bad though that's a different thing entirely.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 18:25

haitfais: Aug 7, 2005; I am offended by your ham, sir.

Aphrodite posted:

The best posters can also be assholes.

In fact it's more often than not.

It's the internet. We're all assholes.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 18:30

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

I like the art in squirrel girl. It suits the tone of the book really well.

Why is it bad artwork

# ? Jul 15, 2016 18:37

trashbuilder: Dec 26, 2013; Look at all the poor opinions I have

Speaking of bad artwork, did anyone read the millar world annual? that's the issue full of short stories from the contest winners. It is rough. Like rougher than I thought it would be, and the art on the Kingsman story is un-readable. It looks so much like the album art of bad ska and crust punk bands from the early 90's. I looked up the artists other stuff to see what the deal was, and I think it was just colored poorly? or he rushed? But it is really bad

The writing was ok, I liked the American Jesus story all the way through. Also i have read non of the books that they are using the characters from.

My point is, you all think squirrel girls clean cartoony art is bad when you don't know the abomination that was $2.99.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 19:08

JoshTheStampede: Sep 8, 2004; come at me bro

Squirrel Girl's art is light and cartoony and fun, in perfect sync to that book's tone. If it was all shadowy Deodato or whatever it would be a terrible match. If you just don't like cartoony art that's fine but it's not "bad" art by any real measure.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 20:02

TwoPair: Mar 28, 2010; Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta; Grimey Drawer

Edge & Christian posted:

and one line speculations about Power Girl's titties under a red sun

Wait hold on what?

# ? Jul 15, 2016 20:13

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

JoshTheStampede posted:

Squirrel Girl's art is light and cartoony and fun, in perfect sync to that book's tone. If it was all shadowy Deodato or whatever it would be a terrible match. If you just don't like cartoony art that's fine but it's not "bad" art by any real measure.

People say bad to mean ugly.

# ? Jul 15, 2016 20:20