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watho posted:If you are going to make any sort of profit off of anyone's work then they should be compensated for it. If you can't afford to compensate anyone then you shouldn't profit of off their work. I don't understand how that's a controversial opinion. lol
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Jul 15, 2016 17:57
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Overkill was if anything extremely upfront about it, which is nice.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:00
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watho posted:If you are going to make any sort of profit off of anyone's work then they should be compensated for it. If you can't afford to compensate anyone then you shouldn't profit of off their work. I don't understand how that's a controversial opinion.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:00
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Like, I know that some people encourage monetized usage of their art and that's way cool but the nuance to be had here is that it's a company that is actively asking people to work for free for them. There's also the whole trend going on now of companies underpaying freelance artist by absurd levels which is causing a really severe devaluation of freelance art that is pretty hosed up. Also, I'm not saying that Overkill is literally stealing or whatever garbage that one dickbag tried to force into my mouth, just annoyed at a fairly scummy business decision. Fake edit: skin DLC packs would be way better than the current system.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:06
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watho posted:Like, I know that some people encourage monetized usage of their art and that's way cool but the nuance to be had here is that it's a company that is actively asking people to work for free for them. lol
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Jul 15, 2016 18:08
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watho posted:Fake edit: skin DLC packs would be way better than the current system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbgCUGIhNck
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Jul 15, 2016 18:09
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watho posted:If you are going to make any sort of profit off of anyone's work then they should be compensated for it. If you can't afford to compensate anyone then you shouldn't profit of off their work. I don't understand how that's a controversial opinion. Tbh I'm genuinely struggling with this one, too. If the income is so trivial, why monetize this poo poo in the first place? So Overkill can have an office pizza party once a month? The alternative is that it's a nontrivial sum of money, in which case the contributor ought to be compensates. Even a few tens of dollars would probably be appreciable. Don't be dense about volunteer work, either. That's for charitable causes. This is not a charitable cause.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:10
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It's only really monetized because they use the steam inventory system, which was built from the ground up to be monetized. It's incidentally monetized, I think.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:13
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If creators want to create skins for free for practice or fun or glory or any other concept that fails to keep their refrigerator full, that is their own business. If creators want to tell Overkill to go gently caress a parking meter and explain that labor is normally compensated with currency, that's also their own business. Both ideas can live in harmony.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:13
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Tbh I'm genuinely struggling with this one, too. If the income is so trivial, why monetize this poo poo in the first place? So Overkill can have an office pizza party once a month? The alternative is that it's a nontrivial sum of money, in which case the contributor ought to be compensates. Even a few tens of dollars would probably be appreciable. well, overkill gets a few cents because it's from their game, and valve gets a few cents because its from their market. if you're submitting a gun skin to this contest of sorts with the knowledge that you aren't getting paid at all, then you know that you're doing it just for fun/to show off. and if you somehow didn't know about it, well that isn't OVERKILL's fault, because they already told everyone in the reveal "You won't be paid for this by the way"
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Jul 15, 2016 18:14
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Magnetic North posted:If creators want to create skins for free for practice or fun or glory or any other concept that fails to keep their refrigerator full, that is their own business. The only thing wrong with this post is that it's too drat long for a thread title.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:16
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I'm pretty new to this thread but holy poo poo guys. I keep getting excited that there are a bunch of posts about people clicking the police but oh not its the thread going in circles about nothing. Cool.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:17
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Bort Bortles posted:I'm pretty new to this thread but holy poo poo guys. I keep getting excited that there are a bunch of posts about people clicking the police but oh not its the thread going in circles about nothing. Cool. Gunfeel good, game good, click the police, gently caress the haters
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Jul 15, 2016 18:24
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watho posted:If you are going to make any sort of profit off of anyone's work then they should be compensated for it. If you can't afford to compensate anyone then you shouldn't profit of off their work. I don't understand how that's a controversial opinion. How do you feel about internships? Seriously dont answer
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Jul 15, 2016 18:31
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BillmasterCozb posted:well, overkill gets a few cents because it's from their game, and valve gets a few cents because its from their market. if you're submitting a gun skin to this contest of sorts with the knowledge that you aren't getting paid at all, then you know that you're doing it just for fun/to show off. and if you somehow didn't know about it, well that isn't OVERKILL's fault, because they already told everyone in the reveal "You won't be paid for this by the way" I've already acknowledged this. Nothing illegal is happening, and Overkill isn't being dishonest. I'm presenting a normative argument, and suggesting that this particular practice is exploitative. No one has explained why the artist shouldn't be entitled to a few cents. If it's Valve's system and Overkill's game, and they get money, then the artist is entitled by the same logic.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:31
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Talkc posted:How do you feel about internships? Unpaid internships are also potentially exploitative.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:32
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Take a break,
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Jul 15, 2016 18:35
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Unpaid internships are also Are you seriously defending unpaid internships?  (Not you, Lucy)
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Jul 15, 2016 18:37
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Unpaid internships are also potentially exploitative. so is the incestuous, "connection-valuing" economy where they do not exist what's your point
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Jul 15, 2016 18:37
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watho posted:Are you seriously defending unpaid internships? I can only think of one condition in which they're defensible: when the intern isn't generating productive labor for the company, but is acquiring useful knowledge. Probably rarely happens, if ever.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:39
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Coolguye posted:so is the incestuous, "connection-valuing" economy where they do not exist It's too bad those are our only two options. If only we could create regulations and norms to deal with such a problem...
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Jul 15, 2016 18:41
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LuciferMorningstar posted:It's too bad those are our only two options. If only we could create regulations and norms to deal with such a problem... i presume you have a proposal? oh wait lol
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Jul 15, 2016 18:47
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Death Vox Harvest & Trustee General notes:
Stealth When the drill begins, a continuous stream of civilians will begin to move through the map, akin to Big Bank. These civilians will not directly path by/alert off of the drill. Loud
Loot There are generally 5 deposit boxes with gold or cash (aside from Bank- Deposit). Additional loot appears in each heist. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 18:52
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Nordick posted:I keep buying new guns and they all feel awesome and I can't decide which ones to use so I just keep switching between any odd half-modified nonsense. Most recently I've been rocking faces with the M1014. I am thinking of doing a Shotgun build when I get to play again though because they seem like so much fun. Would probably do Incendiary ammo on my Primary and Flechette on my Secondary.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:52
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Bort Bortles posted:I just recently tried out the Eagle Heavy Rifle (I think thats its name? I havent played in a few days because I just moved). I have it modded out to have 100 Stability and Accuracy, using it on Autofire with Body Expertise Aced and everything (non-specials, anyway) dies in two shots unless I am unlucky and they have like 3 health left. I used to use the Gewehr 3 and really really liked it, but I think the Eagle is better. Shotgun builds are incredibly hilarious, especially if you use silencer skills and HE rounds (Dunno if that ammo type specifically benefits from the skill bonuses), I recommend it very highly
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Jul 15, 2016 18:58
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Coolguye posted:i presume you have a proposal? A federal law addressing unpaid internships already exists. The question is whether or not it is sufficiently enforced.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:00
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LuciferMorningstar posted:A federal law addressing unpaid internships already exists. The question is whether or not it is sufficiently enforced. DV Bank- Gold The Setting: Gold heist is unusual in that you are hitting the bank while it is closed, at night. The g-man’s people are watching the location, making it more secure than you’d hoped. Stealth: The camera room is open and unoccupied- instead, cameras are watched from offsite. The map has a large number of black ops in it. • 1 Blops guard walks circuits of the exterior, occasionally reversing direction. • Another wanders all exterior areas of the map, including the roof. • 3 black ops officers (loud models) walk the bank interior- one the front area, one the offices, and one anywhere. • A checkin guard is spawned at 2 guards dead, and another at four. The first walks the exterior of the building, then goes stationary near the front door. The fourth (effectively a fail condition unless you are already ready to escape) wanders the entire map continusously. There are also drones- 2 of them. One watches the roof, one moves to check different entrances to the bank. The roof drone can position itself over the skylights. There is a camera set up in the vault. It can be noticed in advance if players access the camera feed. Loud: If things go loud, overwatch immediately occurs and spotlights (a la Framing Frame day 2) hit the main entrances and exits of the bank. Special Spawns: This version of the heist is on a continuous cycling sniper spawn, similar to Undercover or HM day 2. Loot: 12 bags of gold, several paintings, and the artifact statue from Shadow Raid. 12 bags of loot of any kind are required. An additional 4 bags of gold spawn in the deposit boxes.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:09
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LuciferMorningstar posted:A federal law addressing unpaid internships already exists. The question is whether or not it is sufficiently enforced. that wasn't a proposal for a better system lol
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Jul 15, 2016 19:09
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i'm totally confused i thought we just determined that overkill is not charging people for workshop items, they will be available in free safes. is that not the case? wait a second are we talking about the steam secondary market for user-to-user trading?
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Jul 15, 2016 19:10
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Bort Bortles posted:I just recently tried out the Eagle Heavy Rifle (I think thats its name? I havent played in a few days because I just moved). I have it modded out to have 100 Stability and Accuracy, using it on Autofire with Body Expertise Aced and everything (non-specials, anyway) dies in two shots unless I am unlucky and they have like 3 health left. I used to use the Gewehr 3 and really really liked it, but I think the Eagle is better. You should totally do a shotgun build though, it's glorious. Personally I usually have an accurate one with Flechettes for punking snipers and a low-accuracy one for just mowing down clumps of cops. Shock and Awe aced takes care of shields just fine, though now that I think of it a HE Steakout seems like it would probably be loving hilarious.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:11
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:wait a second are we talking about the steam secondary market for user-to-user trading? Yes. The one that funnels a portion of the revenue to Valve and the relevant developer.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:12
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Coolguye posted:that wasn't a proposal for a better system lol Unfortunately, one can't really regulate social norms. I can, however, argue against bad practices. As opposed to simply accepting the status quo, which is what you seem to be heavily in favor of.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:14
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Unfortunately, one can't really regulate social norms. I can, however, argue against bad practices. As opposed to simply accepting the status quo, which is what you seem to be heavily in favor of. i'm against people moaning about crap without thinking about the alternatives it's like the "end the fed" people who have no idea what will happen after the fed, and inevitably end up suggesting we go back to the days you had to go ask the emperor for a loan
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Jul 15, 2016 19:15
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Coolguye posted:i'm against people moaning about crap without thinking about the alternatives This isn't hard. Are you in favor of compensating people for their productive labor, or not?
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Jul 15, 2016 19:18
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LuciferMorningstar posted:This isn't hard. Are you in favor of compensating people for their productive labor, or not? are you in favor of meritocracy or not? that is, the most qualified person having the most opportunity? e: remember that the general alternative is 'whoever has the best connections' Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 19:19
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Coolguye posted:are you in favor of meritocracy or not? that is, the most qualified person having the most opportunity? I'm more of an egalitarian liberal. And supporting meritocratic principles does not preclude compensation for value-producing labor. Now answer my question.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:23
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a death vox post is the best one on the page kill me
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Jul 15, 2016 19:25
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I'm more of an egalitarian liberal. And supporting meritocratic principles does not preclude compensation for value-producing labor. no because you sidestepped mine like a punk. do you think that, in a given economic situation, the best connected person should get a job, or the best qualified person should get a job?
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Jul 15, 2016 19:26
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Yes. The one that funnels a portion of the revenue to Valve and the relevant developer. so, the thing where people sell items for tiny amounts of money and some bare semblance of pocket change is split between the dev and Valve? dude, making sure artists get paid is literally my irl line of work but we're talking about the tiniest of tiny residuals here. yes, in a perfect world overkill should split the 4 dollars of revenue a month that comes from secondary workshop sales. The problem is that the administration required to keep track of who is owed what would completely nullify that revenue and the whole thing would likely operate at a loss. Moreover, Overkill is providing the content for free. Valve has a secondary sales system built into the Steam Workshop, which Overkill has little to do with except for the sad little paycheck they get from it. If you're seriously that upset about all this, here's how you get this changed: Complain to Valve and stir up poo poo until they offer a way to do easy revenue sharing with Workshop creators. For everyone, not just Payday. It has to change on their end. I think you'll find that there's so little money involved that you're going to have a hard time gathering support for your cause, but more power to ya buddy.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:26
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:so, the thing where people sell items for tiny amounts of money and some bare semblance of pocket change is split between the dev and Valve? the only way i was able to beat out much more senior and established developers for well paying work was giving my own work and expertise away for free on github, game mods, stack overflow, etc. hundreds of hours of my labor that was 'uncompensated' by a few pennies but went very well compensated by the six-figure jobs they got me. if every one of these places had been concerned with the massive undertaking of discerning these values and compensating me for them, they would never have existed and i wouldn't have had anything close to the opportunity i had. calling this poo poo exploitative is so insanely myopic you need both contacts and glasses.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:28
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