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HIJK posted:Fascism is the unholy alliance between business and government which does not encourage competition. Marvel has legal competition in the form of DC and other action movies, which precludes fascism or even a monopoly. Also, Marvel is not the government and isn't oppressing citizens by limiting free speech and expression.
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Jul 15, 2016 09:47
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GRANNYS PEACH TEA posted:Buncha slack-jawed faggots *spits tobacco* goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus ain't got time to bleed *flexes muscles* toxic hypermasculinity Yeah, exactly! And now consider what happens to the guy in the movie.
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Jul 15, 2016 12:53
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HIJK posted:Fascism is the unholy alliance between business and government which does not encourage competition. I've heard a few different definitions of fascism before, but that's definitely a new one
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Jul 15, 2016 13:04
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NTRabbit posted:I've heard a few different definitions of fascism before, but that's definitely a new one That was the original definition when Italian fascism was the only fascism going
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Jul 15, 2016 14:21
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Fascism is that thing Marx likes right
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Jul 15, 2016 14:24
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Fine I'll just look it up for you.wiki posted:Fascism, derived from the French fétiche; which comes from the Portuguese feitiço; and this in turn from Latin facticius, "artificial" and facere, "to make") is an object believed to have supernatural powers, or in particular, a man-made object that has power over others.
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Jul 15, 2016 14:49
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Grendels Dad posted:Yeah, exactly!
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Jul 15, 2016 15:55
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Grendels Dad posted:Yeah, exactly! He gets killed by a thing from another world that (vagina-face aside) is an inhuman exaggeration of those masculine attributes. Jesse is six foot six two hundred fifty pounds of gleaming man-muscle, he gets killed by the Predator who is eight feet four hundred pounds of alien muscle. The human soldiers wear camouflage, the Predator has a stealth screen. The humans have guns, the Predator has a computer-aided plasma cannon. My point is that any particular minute of Predator you want to point out contains more (and more concentrated) "toxic hypermasculinity" than the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe. Predator showed a group of macho manly men hunting in the jungle who ran into something more manly than they could ever be, and got their asses kicked. I never got the impression that the movie Predator was saying the special forces team was wrong for being there.
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Jul 15, 2016 16:26
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They were at least tricked into doing that hit mission by their country rather than secret nazis. Boy, was that one of the most spineless plot points put in modern movies. Instead of human greed and corruption and all the things that can come with power, it's secret nazi machinations who are responsible for all the terrible things in the world. I really enjoyed the movie but that was some serious cringe.
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Jul 15, 2016 17:31
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GRANNYS PEACH TEA posted:He gets killed by a thing from another world that (vagina-face aside) is an inhuman exaggeration of those masculine attributes. Jesse is six foot six two hundred fifty pounds of gleaming man-muscle, he gets killed by the Predator who is eight feet four hundred pounds of alien muscle. The human soldiers wear camouflage, the Predator has a stealth screen. The humans have guns, the Predator has a computer-aided plasma cannon. Both Predator and Die Hard seem to have a lot of anxiety about independent women surpassing men.
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Jul 15, 2016 17:34
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Jimbot posted:They were at least tricked into doing that hit mission by their country rather than secret nazis. Boy, was that one of the most spineless plot points put in modern movies. Instead of human greed and corruption and all the things that can come with power, it's secret nazi machinations who are responsible for all the terrible things in the world. Of course its a secret Nazi cabal because its comic book movies, I want to escape from the troubling reality and just imagine that all the poo poo is because of a bunch of Nazis loving up our government/society.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:00
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achillesforever6 posted:Of course its a secret Nazi cabal because its comic book movies, I want to escape from the troubling reality and just imagine that all the poo poo is because of a bunch of Nazis loving up our government/society. Why's that a comforting fantasy?
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Jul 15, 2016 18:01
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Why's that a comforting fantasy?
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Jul 15, 2016 18:04
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achillesforever6 posted:Its not when you think about it, I just don't go to a Marvel movie expecting to get some cutting edge political commentary and want to be entertained That again goes back to the question of "why is a world that is objectively worse than the one we currently live in entertaining to you".
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Jul 15, 2016 18:08
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Deadpool is both an entertaining movie, and a nuanced pop punk satire of the intersection of commodity with gender/sexual expression. You can watch it back to back with I Love You Phillip Morris and not miss a beat.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:09
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computer parts posted:That again goes back to the question of "why is a world that is objectively worse than the one we currently live in entertaining to you".
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Jul 15, 2016 18:12
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achillesforever6 posted:I don't know really at this point Honest, but you do yourself a disservice.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:13
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Like I can get why people want (eg) Mad Max's world because it's brutal as hell but it's also totally unlike basically anywhere in the world, certainly anywhere most audiences will go. But the MCU thus far (especially Winter Soldier) is just "real life, but hey it turns out our government is full of Nazis".
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Jul 15, 2016 18:13
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achillesforever6 posted:I don't know really at this point Fair enough, but it's definitely something to think about.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:14
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computer parts posted:Like I can get why people want (eg) Mad Max's world because it's brutal as hell but it's also totally unlike basically anywhere in the world, certainly anywhere most audiences will go. To be fair, after Operation: Paper Clip, it was.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:19
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Jimbot posted:They were at least tricked into doing that hit mission by their country rather than secret nazis. Boy, was that one of the most spineless plot points put in modern movies. Instead of human greed and corruption and all the things that can come with power, it's secret nazi machinations who are responsible for all the terrible things in the world. The implication is that American foreign policy since WW2 is such garbage that it may as well have been decided by a secret nazi cabal. Doesn't explain why it was such garbage before WW2, though. computer parts posted:But the MCU thus far (especially Winter Soldier) is just "real life, but hey it turns out our government is full of Nazis". So no change, then.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:23
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computer parts posted:
No it's more like, the Nazis are the only reason we still can't have world peace. The mcu is not at all like this world, thor's presence alone would cause religious civil wars.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:23
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Now that I think about it I like the structure of the movies, I like the characters and their interactions, the action sans stuff like the Avengers is enjoyable for me; really now that I think about it, the one issue that I don't care is probably the world because its just the sandbox for the characters to play in. That and I'm a person who for some reason really sticks with a brand once I like it and I just like the Marvel brand and its an excuse to go to the movies twice a year with my friends and family since they are easy watches and no one I personally know dislikes the MCU brand. Sorry I can't elaborate in intricate detail, but I'm not one to go beyond simplicity when it comes to discussing stuff like movies. ThePlague-Daemon posted:The implication is that American foreign policy since WW2 is such garbage that it may as well have been decided by a secret nazi cabal. achillesforever6 fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 18:25
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achillesforever6 posted:Sorry I can't elaborate in intricate detail, but I'm not one to go beyond simplicity when it comes to discussing stuff like movies. That's perfectly fine but you might run into a little friction here since deep-dives into movies is kind of this forum's jam.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:28
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teagone posted:https://twitter.com/dceufacts/status/753809579813670913 This loving rules 
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Jul 15, 2016 18:33
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I admit I was hesitant on Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. I am ashamed of my words and deeds.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:35
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bushisms.txt posted:The mcu is not at all like this world, thor's presence alone would cause religious civil wars. You're right and you're wrong. The MCU is not like our world because it still functions like our world even though it's encountered real life aliens.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:37
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computer parts posted:You're right and you're wrong. The MCU is not like our world because it still functions like our world even though it's encountered real life aliens. Everybody's too busy quipping about shawarma to process technogods and interdimensional aliens
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Jul 15, 2016 18:45
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Kulkasha posted:Everybody's too busy quipping about shawarma to process technogods and interdimensional aliens I bet the double nazis suppressed the extraterrestrial combat project.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:47
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computer parts posted:But the MCU thus far (especially Winter Soldier) is just "real life, but hey it turns out our government is full of Nazis". I dunno, I feel that "Imagine if the government was really lovely but it turns out that was only because it had been secretly infiltrated by Nazis but then a guy fixes it by punching them" is a LOT more comforting than "The government is lovely because that's just human nature"
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Jul 15, 2016 18:50
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Seriously though, who would still be a Christian when Actual Norse God Thor is flying around Manhattan.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I admit I was hesitant on Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. I am ashamed of my words and deeds.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:54
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I dunno, I feel that "Imagine if the government was really lovely but it turns out that was only because it had been secretly infiltrated by Nazis but then a guy fixes it by punching them" is a LOT more comforting than "The government is lovely because that's just human nature" This seems counterintuitive as everyone who thinks like this in real life seems way more on edge than people who think that human nature has unfortunate implications for human institutions.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:57
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Seriously though, who would still be a Christian when Actual Norse God Thor is flying around Manhattan. Do the MCU movies with Thor in them touch on this? Like, is there a shot of a Scandinavian metalhead flipping his poo poo or something?
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Jul 15, 2016 19:00
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This seems counterintuitive as everyone who thinks like this in real life seems way more on edge than people who think that human nature has unfortunate implications for human institutions. Oh you don't consider the implications in real life, the point of escapism is that you pretend there's simple solutions to issues which are actually horrifically complex and intractable. The simple solutions might be difficult to achieve and require people to take their shirts off and flex their muscles a lot but they get there in the end. Also if you buy lots of action figures and posters and display them prominently in your house and on your desk at work they'll constantly remind you of those simpler, more thematically satisfying times!
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Jul 15, 2016 19:08
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I do like some good old fashioned escapism but I just find it hard to separate reality from fiction when the US government is concerned. I was completely invested in Iron Man's escapism because it touched bases on the military industrial complex and how cyclical it is and how someone who was complacent with that started having problems with it once he saw how it effected people's lives. It was a minor part of a power fantasy but it was enough for me to buy into the fiction set in the real world. Winter Solder took me out of the fantasy by making secret nazis the root of all evil. It was too sanitized and safe - borderline on propaganda. It's why I appreciate DC's Superman films. It explores the world's reaction to this mighty being in an interesting way. Really looking forward to checking out the Ultimate cut on blu-ray come the 19th. It was incredibly dumb for them to release it digitally a month early.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:18
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Both Predator and Die Hard seem to have a lot of anxiety about independent women surpassing men. These responses to McTiernan are mixing up the political with mere politics. Die Hard is about a working-class cop fighting a massive corporation (and, as an aside, some already-rich professional thieves). McClane may very well be sexist, (and we know his marriage is doomed to failure) but that's not a very big deal in this grand scheme of things. He's a sexist cop who's struggling through life while Nakatomi has over 600 million in bonds just sitting there. And now he's on the verge of being murdered for profit. McTiernan is not saying that Steve Rogers is a fascist character (Rogers is currently a hardcore libertarian character). He's saying that the Marvel films express a fascist logic where the actual people are made powerless against the insidious reptilian conspiracy, so we need strong leaders to do what's necessary to eliminate them. In the battle between Avengers and the reptilians, the possibility of collective action by the people is foreclosed - unthinkable.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:44
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The people, such as they are, exist in these films to buy merch.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:49
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:That's perfectly fine but you might run into a little friction here since deep-dives into movies is kind of this forum's jam. Eh, that's usually only a problem with posters offended when the deep-dives contradict popular consensus. Mechafunkzilla posted:Seriously though, who would still be a Christian when Actual Norse God Thor is flying around Manhattan. Oddly enough, I suspect that actually existing would be a liability for a deity. Real beings can intervene in disputes between their followers, which is inevitably a political role, rather than being beyond politics (within the community of the deity's worshipers). Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 19:54
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Seriously though, who would still be a Christian when Actual Norse God Thor is flying around Manhattan. Captain America for one. In real life? Pretty much all Christians. Never underestimate the human race's ability to rationalize or ignore anything that disagrees with their worldview. And I think the Marvel universe is pretty spot-on in terms of how the world would react to discovering there are aliens: momentary shock, terror, wonder, then everyone just assimilates that info and moves on.
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Jul 15, 2016 19:54
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