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Xinder posted:15 episodes of Victory now and I'm still enjoying it. Oh yeah, the mass driver death is brutal. Also the guillotine.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:02
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In Chris' defense, a good test pilot isn't necessarily the same thing as a good combat pilot.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:40
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muike posted:In Chris' defense, a good test pilot isn't necessarily the same thing as a good combat pilot. Tell more about this? Not sarcastic, actually like hearing about the fundamental differences of this sort of stuff in entertaining effort posts.
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Jul 16, 2016 06:08
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Should have been monsha put up for execution rather than captain synapse. At least I think he was executed. I can't read untranslated text after all and I'm going off what others have said
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Jul 16, 2016 09:50
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SeanBeansShako posted:And that is why I loving hate Monsha. I imagine everyone on the Albion would have performed much better without Monsha being involved, even with Kou's loving up. This is actually, factually true. During the initial pursuit of the GP-02 into Africa, Monsha's drunken idiocy causes him to lead Kou(with the GP-01) and Keith into a trap followed by an ambush, tying them up for so long that the remainder of the enemy force is able to attack and delay the Albion, preventing it from being able to shoot down the HLV that was transporting the GP-02 into space. If Monsha hadn't been a moron who led half the ship's mobile suit forces into an obvious trap, the Albion could have stopped the GP-02 from ever reaching space and Operation Stardust from ever happening.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:14
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Shoulda given Kou one of the GMs and let one of his buddies fly the gundam.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:47
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I dunno, I think Kou was pretty much the actual best choice to pilot the GP-01. Of the Torrington personnel, Burning was heavily injured, Keith was even rawer and more panicky than Kou, and both other members of their squad got crispy fried when the Gundamjack occurred. I wouldn't trust the 04th MS Team as far as I could throw them because most of their time is spent turning a blind eye to Monsha's drunken idiocy or even aiding and abetting it(and their actual combat performance is not markedly superior to Kou or Keith's in the series despite piloting souped up GM Customs and GM Cannons against leftover Zeon junk from the OYW). Kou took the GP-01 out on his first actual sortie and got into repeated close quarters combat with a legendary Zeon Ace while managing to not die in the process. He definitely has some talent and is a cut above your average grunt, he's just not a Super Amazing Newtype Ace like most Gundam protagonists. He's just the best that they had available on hand, which is unfortunate, since he's not up to the task of fighting veteran pilots like Gato or Cima. There's no defense for Kou's whiny and muleheaded idiocy like taking the GP-01 out despite being explicitly told that it's not designed for space combat, or running off and helping Kelly build a loving Zeon mobile armor, but them's the breaks.
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Jul 16, 2016 13:08
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Kanos posted:This is actually, factually true. During the initial pursuit of the GP-02 into Africa, Monsha's drunken idiocy causes him to lead Kou(with the GP-01) and Keith into a trap followed by an ambush, tying them up for so long that the remainder of the enemy force is able to attack and delay the Albion, preventing it from being able to shoot down the HLV that was transporting the GP-02 into space. If Monsha hadn't been a moron who led half the ship's mobile suit forces into an obvious trap, the Albion could have stopped the GP-02 from ever reaching space and Operation Stardust from ever happening. Yep, basically in a strange unintended way Monsha made the Titans happen and the blood of every spacenoid dude quietly murdered or imprisoned is on his stupid loving hands and I hope he died horribly in Zeta Gundam. So in closing, gently caress you Monsha.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:01
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I can kinda see why some people say 0083 is one long piece of Zeon propaganda. The Federation soldiers are all incompetent, unlikable or selfish pigs. Zeon's heroic freedom fighters however are absolutely devoted to their noble cause and never waver because of petty distractions like alcohol or women.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:46
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NikkolasKing posted:I can kinda see why some people say 0083 is one long piece of Zeon propaganda. The Federation soldiers are all incompetent, unlikable or selfish pigs. Zeon's heroic freedom fighters however are absolutely devoted to their noble cause and never waver because of petty distractions like alcohol or women. Their honorable cause of murdering millions of civilians. gently caress Zeon forever.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:53
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SeanBeansShako posted:And that is why I loving hate Beecha. I imagine everyone on the Argama would have performed much better without Beecha being involved, even with Judau's loving up.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:27
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Yeah, okay, I rescind my statement about Kou being worse than Monsha. And I will add the caveat that everybody in 0083 minus Keith, Mona, Burning and Synapse are all mega assholes or useless tits.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:47
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i just watched 0083 like a month ago and i already don't remember enough to engage in this conversation
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Jul 16, 2016 20:04
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Xinder posted:i just watched 0083 like a month ago and i already don't remember enough to engage in this conversation It's own story gets sidelined in the last few episodes when it decides to become a shoddy prequel to Zeta Gundam instead of its own thing.
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Jul 16, 2016 20:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yeah, okay, I rescind my statement about Kou being worse than Monsha. And I will add the caveat that everybody in 0083 minus Keith, Mona, Burning and Synapse are all mega assholes or useless tits. What about Cima?
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Jul 16, 2016 20:31
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chiasaur11 posted:What about Cima? Cima was in cahoots with the Federation officers who were in on Operation Stardust, which makes her complicit in the annihilation of the American Midwest with the colony drop. She only gets points because she acts out of her own self interest and desire for revenge against Zeon, but that doesn't stop her from being a raging rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 16, 2016 20:34
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Kurui Reiten posted:Tell more about this? Not sarcastic, actually like hearing about the fundamental differences of this sort of stuff in entertaining effort posts. If you compare it to a game, QA people don't really play games based on the content. They test the boundaries of the engine itself, and correct what could be breaking it. A test pilot is more focused on making sure the thing works, while a fighter pilot is about survival and strategy on the battlefield. The best test pilot is possibly not a good soldier, and a soldier wouldn't necessarily know what to do when their weapons jam or backpack engine overheats. They're looking for two completely different things as far as objectives go.
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Jul 16, 2016 21:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:Cima was in cahoots with the Federation officers who were in on Operation Stardust, which makes her complicit in the annihilation of the American Midwest with the colony drop. She only gets points because she acts out of her own self interest and desire for revenge against Zeon, but that doesn't stop her from being a raging rear end in a top hat. Cima was doing the opposite of this; she was actually attempting to help stop Operation Stardust as a way of vindictively loving over the remainder of Zeon. Burning died during a skirmish with the Cima fleet while Cima was actively attempting to sell the Operation Stardust mission plan to the Federation(that's what was in the suitcase that Burning flipped out over). Cima was literally in the process of backstabbing Delaz when she was smoked out of his Gwadan by Gato and killed by Kou. Her entire force was in the process of turning against the Delaz Fleet during Operation Stardust until the Albion crashed in and hosed it up because nobody bothered to tell Synapse that the Cima fleet was on their side until it was too late. Kanos fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 01:14
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Unicorn Episode 3. I'm liking Riddhe more and more. Just comparing his motivation with Banagher's shows how much more interesting a character he is. He's ready to bug out and flee with Mineva, but he still chooses to fight out of an obligation to his teammates. Meanwhile Banagher continues to yell at people for being stupid to fight and then wondering why the nation that has come to despise the name Gundam for almost twenty years are willing to fire on him. And Mineva makes a great point that the attack is only continuing so long as Banagher doesn't return to the Nahel Argama. So his slow reaction leads to more deaths. And, holy gently caress what the hell with Marida? Yeah, lovely imagery there, child sex slave, always fun stuff. And Banagher, stop loving ignoring the fact that your enemies are mass loving murderers. I'm not letting the Federation off on this, because they indulged in the fight at Industrial 7 as well, but Marida killed civilians there. Even if you see her true self in her Newtype spirit, that doesn't change the fact that she killed innocents because of her beliefs. So stop being so goddamn high and mighty when you think you can make a judgment call like that. And Daguza is dead now, dammit. Are all of Banagher's mentor figures (Gilboa as well) just going to keep dying to motivate him to stop pussyfooting around and take responsibility for his actions? God, this kid is a self righteous prick. Even after people point out how irrational he's being, rather than concede, he gives off a petulant "yeah, but!..." rebuttal that doesn't hold any weight, and exists solely to reset his characterization to "war is bad" after every fight. Not a whole lot to say about this episode except that I'm concerned all the good characters are going to die off to make Banagher seem more interesting. Kanos posted:Cima was doing the opposite of this; she was actually attempting to help stop Operation Stardust as a way of vindictively loving over the remainder of Zeon. Burning died during a skirmish with the Cima fleet while Cima was actively attempting to sell the Operation Stardust mission plan to the Federation(that's what was in the suitcase that Burning flipped out over). Except that the Federation people she was working with also failed to prevent Stardust from happening, and Jamitov and Bask both quickly turned their fuckup into a propaganda spiel. The Feds she worked with didn't tell the Albion team what was going on and put the head of Albion's operation under arrest at gunpoint. By not telling them, they allowed Stardust to succeed because they were too busy being jackasses. If Albion had been informed, the Delaz Fleet would have been defeated sooner, and the solar array would have had a better chance to destroy the colony without half its mirrors getting destroyed. I like Cima, and I understand where she was coming from, but she is still an rear end in a top hat. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 01:20
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Beecha came up with the ingenious plan of strapping bombs to the ZZ so the enemy would be afraid to blow it up and hurt their own battleships. You can't say it didn't work!
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Jul 17, 2016 01:25
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Kurui Reiten posted:Tell more about this? Not sarcastic, actually like hearing about the fundamental differences of this sort of stuff in entertaining effort posts. I don't think I'm well informed enough about the subject but I think a good way to think about it would be the difference between someone who knows how to really put a vehicle to its limits and see what works vs someone who's very skilled at rally. There's definitely skill crossover but it's not the exact same skill set.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:31
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Yeah you could pretty easily make a ton of different comparisons and each could be just as valid. A competitive martial artist isn't necessarily going to win a street fight, that sort of thing.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:40
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Yeah you could pretty easily make a ton of different comparisons and each could be just as valid. A competitive martial artist isn't necessarily going to win a street fight, that sort of thing. That's a good way to look at it. Form vs. Function, Breadth vs Focus, Utility vs Extravagance.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:41
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It's also fair to note that Chris was piloting a Gundam that was not designed for her. It was specifically designed for a powerful Newtype whose reaction and motor skills were far above and beyond those of a normal person. It's literally not possible for her to make best use of the Alex because the Alex is something that most people couldn't actually pilot to full potential.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:51
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Marida isn't a mass murderer. Murder requires intent. Her job was to run security on what was supposed to be a quiet, peaceful handover of a high-value object, and then it got leaked, half the Federation showed up, and she got dragged into a colony battle she was hideously poorly equipped for. She was responsible for most of the deaths in the Industrial Seven fight, but it was due to criminal carelessness on both sides.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:52
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Darth Walrus posted:Marida isn't a mass murderer. Murder requires intent. Her job was to run security on what was supposed to be a quiet, peaceful handover of a high-value object, and then it got leaked, half the Federation showed up, and she got dragged into a colony battle she was hideously poorly equipped for. She was responsible for most of the deaths in the Industrial Seven fight, but it was due to criminal carelessness on both sides. Yes, both sides are at fault, my point is that Banagher should not dismiss her role in the fight like he was doing. He can go around telling off everyone for starting wars, but it's Marida he stands up for? The person full frontal was using to spoon feed Banagher neo zeon propaganda and who went into a flying rage at the sight of a Gundam? Don't get me wrong I empathize with Marida buy where does Banagher get off making these judgment calls based off of his interactions with her?
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Jul 17, 2016 01:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yes, both sides are at fault, my point is that Banagher should not dismiss her role in the fight like he was doing. He can go around telling off everyone for starting wars, but it's Marida he stands up for? The person full frontal was using to spoon feed Banagher neo zeon propaganda and who went into a flying rage at the sight of a Gundam? Don't get me wrong I empathize with Marida buy where does Banagher get off making these judgment calls based off of his interactions with her? I forget, are you aware of ZZ Gundam at all? If not: Marida isn't just a person. She's literally a Puru clone who was created to be a war machine. Nobody really treats her like a person but as a weapon and she has internalized that to some degree. It is why she refers to Zimmerman as Master and a big part of her story. Unicorn doesn't do a great job of explaining that bit in-series. (Though it kind of does later, you're supposed to recognize her deal from very early on.) Banagher is basically the only person who has some real idea of what is up with Marida and her hosed-up situation.
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Jul 17, 2016 01:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:Except that the Federation people she was working with also failed to prevent Stardust from happening, and Jamitov and Bask both quickly turned their fuckup into a propaganda spiel. The Feds she worked with didn't tell the Albion team what was going on and put the head of Albion's operation under arrest at gunpoint. By not telling them, they allowed Stardust to succeed because they were too busy being jackasses. If Albion had been informed, the Delaz Fleet would have been defeated sooner, and the solar array would have had a better chance to destroy the colony without half its mirrors getting destroyed. I don't really see how the corruption of the Titans and failure to disclose Cima's true allegiance to the Albion reflects badly on Cima. She was making a good faith effort to stop Stardust from the inside(albeit for selfish reasons of revenge and compensation rather than any particular care for the potential victims). It's not her fault that Jamitov and Bask wanted Stardust to succeed and deliberately sabotaged her by not informing the Albion in advance. She was literally in the process of trying to capture Delaz and end the whole thing with a Federation victory when her fleet got sucked into combat by the Albion, she got smoked out by Gato, and then Kou killed her. Arcsquad12 posted:Yes, both sides are at fault, my point is that Banagher should not dismiss her role in the fight like he was doing. He can go around telling off everyone for starting wars, but it's Marida he stands up for? The person full frontal was using to spoon feed Banagher neo zeon propaganda and who went into a flying rage at the sight of a Gundam? Don't get me wrong I empathize with Marida buy where does Banagher get off making these judgment calls based off of his interactions with her? Marida explicitly does not have agency the way a normal person does. She's a clone who was created to be a living weapon and has never really known any form of freedom or self-determination. That's why she refers to Zinnerman as "master" rather than "captain". She can't really be held to the same standard of responsibility as a normal soldier because of this, and Banagher is one of the first people to see her as an actual person. e: ImpAtom!!!! 
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Jul 17, 2016 02:06
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ImpAtom posted:I forget, are you aware of ZZ Gundam at all? Haven't made it that far yet. I'm simultaneously watching Unicorn and Zeta because I'm a crazy person who doesn't watch things in order. I assumed the "master" routine was because of her child rape backstory. Still hosed up. Considering psychics, prosthetic limbs and mind controlled suits are common enough, might as well throw brainwashed clones in there too, I guess.
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Jul 17, 2016 02:45
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Remember old school eyecatches? There were some great ones back in the day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFP6i0pSc3U (Ignore lovely SeeD ones) Anyone know if there's a longer version of that X music track?
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Jul 17, 2016 04:31
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Unicorn Episode 4. This is how you pay homage without directly copying visuals like earlier episodes did. Southeast Asia and African Zeon remnants using a ton of old equipment from 08th MS Team and 0083, loving Bright Noa popping into the show, this is all great stuff. And holy crap, actual character development for Banagher? What is this, progress? I mean, yes, he still suffers from having a lack of proper backstory to define him, but he's finally faced with guilt over his actions, and he's surrounded by people who want to help develop his worldview. At least he now understands why people respond with violence rather than talking. The parallels between the Federation blowing off steam burning down a village and the Zeon Remnants doomed assault on Torrington was a nice touch, and for once, Banagher's arguments against an adult were justified. Zinnerman was lying to himself when he said he only cared about the Box, and it was made pretty clear when his subordinates refused to help him fight off Banagher. He wouldn't have gone through four episodes of protecting his men and actively fighting to rescue Marida to suddenly not care. He cares deeply, and his reliance on Zeon dogma to cover up his true feelings shows how hollow their reasons for fighting are. It's just bitterness and vengeance, no other causes. And sometimes, when you have nothing left to fight for, you end up like Loni. Being overruled by the psycommu system as a metaphor for being consumed by vengeance was great. But while the stuff with the Remnants was great, my favorite scene was Mineva's chat with the old man, resigned to his fate. There is the deep regret things couldn't have turned out differently there. The quiet moments of the episode were the best parts. It is a chance to see the Zeon and what they are fighting for on a personal level, and to understand them. Not to condone, but to understand, because they're reasons are justifiable in their own twisted way, but that doesn't mean they are right. And massacring civilians is always wrong. Riddhe seems to be turning into an allied antagonist, which I like, because his point about not being able to win every fight is right, in a tragic way. Some people just can't be reasoned with, and inaction in the face of failure like that can only cause more suffering. Killing Loni was an awful thing to do, but it was necessary for the greater good, which is what Riddhe fights for. He's selfless in that regard, and willing to do the ugly business to save lives. Banagher's idealism doesn't have a place in the current world, and only the dead seem to understand the peace he's striving for. Of course, Riddhe's selflessness for the greater good can also be argued as maintaining the status quo, as he's responding to violence with violence. That's the Universal Century's go to method of discourse. If the rest of the show has as much meat to it as this episode, I'll be very pleased. This is the first episode that seems to have cast off the arrogance of the earlier ones, and I think that comes from telling a more grounded story. This episode would have worked perfectly without the Laplace Box plot, and would have been a quiet epilogue to the Zeon forces left behind in the wake of the One Year War. It was a very self reflective of other Gundam series, and wasn't trying to drive home a point about how important events are. It's not a save the world from destruction plot, but a story about sad old people who never got over their losses and can only respond with further violence. EDIT: Oh, and I suppose this episode helped clear up some stuff with Marida as well. Be interesting to see how she stacks up piloting the Banshee. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 04:39
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Arcsquad12 posted:Haven't made it that far yet. I'm simultaneously watching Unicorn and Zeta because I'm a crazy person who doesn't watch things in order. I assumed the "master" routine was because of her child rape backstory. Still hosed up. Considering psychics, prosthetic limbs and mind controlled suits are common enough, might as well throw brainwashed clones in there too, I guess. Unicorn is very much tying up loose ends from ZZ, so without it, you don't understand the Glemy references, or what exactly is the deal with the Elpuru Ple clones, of which Marida is the last survivor. ZZ was somewhat forgotten about when Char's Counterattack was being made, wasn't it? Fake edit: this has all been covered, no it's not because of child rape. It's just brainwashed clones all the way down created by a really creepy dude with a hard-on for coup d'tats and... children, apparently. Actually, yeah, it's child rape. God I loving hated Glemy.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:58
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There is at no point any indication that Glemy was sexually interested in Puru or any of her clones.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:02
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MonsieurChoc posted:Remember old school eyecatches? There were some great ones back in the day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRAGNDWGkXs Go hog wild, I love gundam X edit: the track you're most likely looking for is "Dashes out" on the 2nd CD : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3dZM5aff0 Ka0 fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 05:04
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ImpAtom posted:It's also fair to note that Chris was piloting a Gundam that was not designed for her. It was specifically designed for a powerful Newtype whose reaction and motor skills were far above and beyond those of a normal person. It's literally not possible for her to make best use of the Alex because the Alex is something that most people couldn't actually pilot to full potential. Yeah, the fact she could use it at all is kind of a testimony to her being an exceptional pilot. It feels worth mentioning that, while Kou was an ensign assigned to, basically, get shot at by the real pilots in the Gundam, Chris was handpicked as the closest thing to a Newtype the Federation could get for testing purposes. They were both fresh out of the academy, but Kou was a regular rookie while Christina was class valedictorian. I admit, I've always been kind of curious in a dumb way how Stardust would have gone down if the Federation actually had someone with experience ready to fly the GP-01. Amuro would obviously be hilarious overkill, but I figure Lt. Mackenzie would probably be sufficient to prevent Stardust from going off without a hitch. At bare minimum, she doesn't seem the type for pointless revenge kills.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:06
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Gonna head off the rape chat and suggest we talk about something else please.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:37
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My Puru theory: child soldiers are a terrifying thing and that fact could be exploited for a temporary advantage in a fight. Glemy was probably exploiting that fact.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:58
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Shinjobi posted:My Puru theory: child soldiers are a terrifying thing and that fact could be exploited for a temporary advantage in a fight. Glemy was probably exploiting that fact. Nah, he treats them entirely as useful components for his selection of giant, intimidating war machines. They look young because he wants them combat-ready fast, and that means not waiting around for their accelerated growth to finish up. Ple Two's introduction, in which she's wheeled in naked in a box like a slab of meat, makes it obvious how utterly irrelevant it is to him that she happens to be a human child.
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Jul 17, 2016 09:22
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Ka0 posted:edit: the track you're most likely looking for is "Dashes out" on the 2nd CD : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3dZM5aff0 Yeah, that's pretty close. Cool track.
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Jul 17, 2016 12:45
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