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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Isn't this more or less the whole reason Civil War takes place? Civil War is, if anything, a reaction to Cap winning in Winter Soldier. It's saying "Yes, you were right about the Nazis in the government, but you still broke the law and need to be under control of the (probably Nazi free?) government". So yes, in some respects it does build off of the previous film, but it again undermines its message by saying "actually, government control is AOK, just ask Tony Stark". (And then it kind of ignores the whole political thing which is probably a positive given the message it was leading towards) computer parts fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 04:59
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Yaws posted:Captain America 1 is one of the only good Marvel movies and it's a pity no one seems to remember it. Captain America doesn't have a bad movie with his name on it. Has anyone done a good write up on the Captain America trilogy? There's not many trilogies that maintain a level of quality, or actually improve in quality.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:03
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Burkion posted:See the real problem with it, in my eyes, is the fact that there was no loving way the scientist had enough experiments that got unleashed on the world to make an entire sub population all across the planet. Honestly, I'd have to read it, because a lot of the quality of the ideas at work depends on execution. There's some room for an interesting critique of teleological assumptions in the premise. If it amounts to "it doesn't have teleological significance because it isn't a ~~natural~~ development," though, then I'd have to say that there isn't much merit in critiquing one cliche of pop metaphysics from the standpoint of another. The work as a whole could present that reaction while also criticizing the assumptions behind it, though; even or maybe especially if no one ever gives a speech saying "oh hey maybe out assumptions about the authenticity of the natural are themselves flawed." Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 05:17
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Hodgepodge posted:That's how evolution works, though. Something randomly changes, and sometimes this results in an adaptive advantage instead of a cancer. Yeah, but evolution doesn't a will or pre-ordained stages. It's a process.
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Jul 17, 2016 12:51
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My biggest issue with the first Captain America is that it's not long enough. I felt like too much stuff didn't get enough attention. It's pretty rare that I feel that way about a movie, usually I feel like they should be shorter and more tightly edited.
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Jul 17, 2016 14:30
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computer parts posted:Civil War is, if anything, a reaction to Cap winning in Winter Soldier. It's saying "Yes, you were right about the Nazis in the government, but you still broke the law and need to be under control of the (probably Nazi free?) government". I like how at the end of Winter Soldier, Black Widow's big finale scene is her telling the Senate "gently caress you for thinking you have the right to have oversight over the military" and then in Civil War she's on the pro-oversight side and the only reason given is an awkward line of dialogue where she just says that she changed her mind.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:03
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Chairman Capone posted:I like how at the end of Winter Soldier, Black Widow's big finale scene is her telling the Senate "gently caress you for thinking you have the right to have oversight over the military" and then in Civil War she's on the pro-oversight side and the only reason given is an awkward line of dialogue where she just says that she changed her mind. In fairness, there was an event that happened between those two films that might have changed her mind, wherein she was almost complicit in the destruction of the entirety of the human race.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:19
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Slugworth posted:In fairness, there was an event that happened between those two films that might have changed her mind, wherein she was almost complicit in the destruction of the entirety of the human race. I always forget Age of Ultron exists; it was super lovely.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:37
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Burkion posted:But I think the general negative reaction to it was that it wasn't a natural mutation, meaning it had less meaning and blah blah blah bullshit stuff. They pretty much just pulled it out of the hat to explain away mutants having weird powers because the Ultimate Universe was the No Fun Zone, and also as a way to break Magneto's spirit since he as all full of righteous fury and religious fever. That's why I liked it, I know it doesn't make logical sense but (a) Magneto finally getting the wind torn out of his self-righteous, racist-supremacist sails was so friggin' cathartic.
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Jul 17, 2016 16:47
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Slugworth posted:In fairness, there was an event that happened between those two films that might have changed her mind, wherein she was almost complicit in the destruction of the entirety of the human race. Nah they fixed that, spent literal minutes of screen time saving people and beat the bad guy. Civil War then asks the audience to pretend those minutes don't exist. Civil War happens because they feel bad about seeing the collateral damage. loving bad film. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 18:26
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So have we finally reached the point where people are calling Civil War a bad film?
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Jul 17, 2016 18:51
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:So have we finally reached the point where people are calling Civil War a bad film? It's a bad movie.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:00
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:So have we finally reached the point where people are calling Civil War a bad film? No no. AoU was a bad film. Civil War was just confused.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:00
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:So have we finally reached the point where people are calling Civil War a bad film? The movie resets to essentially post AoU, two avenger branches and a couple more cool heroes to look forward to. It's only good at make Disney money.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:03
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Man, Peter Parker in ASM2 is kind of an rear end in a top hat. He's rude to his aunt, he won't work with one of his oldest friends to try to save his life, he stalks Gwen, and he tries to sabotage Gwen's interview. The movie itself has a number of really pretty moments, but this dude is just not a compelling hero.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:27
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Sir Kodiak posted:Man, Peter Parker in ASM2 is kind of an rear end in a top hat. He's rude to his aunt, he won't work with one of his oldest friends to try to save his life, he stalks Gwen, and he tries to sabotage Gwen's interview. The movie itself has a number of really pretty moments, but this dude is just not a compelling hero. He's a complete rear end in a top hat, and I hate the Peter Parker in that movie.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:33
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Why do detractors always root against Peter in the ASM series?
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Jul 17, 2016 19:36
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bushisms.txt posted:Why do detractors always root against Peter in the ASM series? ... because they think he is an rear end in a top hat, for the reasons stated two posts above yours?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:30
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Andrew Garfield comes off as a douchey jock the entire movie. I felt like I was watching Flash Gordon the whole time.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:40
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Andrew Garfield comes off as a douchey jock the entire movie. I felt like I was watching Flash Gordon the whole time. You better not be calling Flash Gordon douchey! Maybe you meant Flash Thompson?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:42
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Spiderman is basically the worst superhero. That's why the best Spiderman movie is Kick-rear end.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:47
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The secret best spider-man movie is alien 3
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Jul 17, 2016 20:50
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Grendels Dad posted:You better not be calling Flash Gordon douchey! Oh poo poo, yeah, I got two Flash's confused  SuperMechagodzilla posted:Spiderman is basically the worst superhero. That's why the best Spiderman movie is Kick-rear end. I can get on board with this. Unfortunately it seems that this thread has a real dislike for Mark Millar, but I love all his work and think he should be celebrated amongst nerds the way Joss Whedon is. I even liked Wanted. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 21:02
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Spider-man is the worst super hero because unlike any of his contemporaries, he's the only one who is genuinely unhappy being a hero and literally would be better off if he wasn't. He rarely ever makes things better by being who he is and often makes things worse. It's very likely that more people have died because of Spider-Man than he has actually saved. It all comes back to why he's a hero in the first place- guilt. He's not out for revenge or to do the right thing, he's doing it because he got his uncle killed by being a douche bag and his life has been a spiral of pain and misery ever since. I love Spider-Man and the early run of his comics, when he had more of a personality that wasn't just Goofy Nerd, and I'm going to be reading through more of it soon to see how he evolved from the 70s to the 80s, but yeah. But even there what drives him isn't a need to bring justice to the world, but a pathological desire not to be guilty to be forgiven and to forgive himself. Which he will never get and will never do. None of the movies have really gotten Peter right either. They go to one extreme or another though I haven't seen the newest Spider lad yet. Tobey Peter is just too silly and happy and good natured. Andrew Peter is too focused on the superficial and the appearing to be cool and obsessing over really stupid poo poo like his parents. An actual Ditko inspired Spider-Man would have a core of hate and aggression running through him that none of the movies have ever matched. He wasn't much of a jokey guy, just a dude who was dealing with a lot of poo poo and had to deal with psychopaths and super criminals because if he didn't more people would die and for some reason none of the millions of other super heroes in New York City could be bothered to care. The day Peter Parker comes to terms with the guilt of Uncle Ben's death is the day he either becomes a good super hero, or the day he quits being Spider-Man.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:09
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Burkion posted:It's very likely that more people have died because of Spider-Man than he has actually saved. I like everything in your post except this. Dude's saved the whole city more than once, and I'm sure someone can find some comic where he saves the world somehow.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:13
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Burkion posted:Spider-man is the worst super hero because unlike any of his contemporaries, he's the only one who is genuinely unhappy being a hero and literally would be better off if he wasn't. Batman is worse.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Spiderman is basically the worst superhero. Why?
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Jul 17, 2016 21:32
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I like everything in your post except this. Dude's saved the whole city more than once, and I'm sure someone can find some comic where he saves the world somehow. The weird thing is, usually, way more than most other heroes- Spider-Man's foes get worse due to Spider-man. Even the ones who didn't start out because of him get worse due to escalation fighting him. Like Vulture and Dock Ock especially. A lot of his villains wouldn't be half as dangerous if they didn't have him to bounce off of.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:41
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I don't think most of the people who post in this thread like superheroes or the comics they spend a lot of time reading.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:46
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Burkion posted:Spider-man is the worst super hero because unlike any of his contemporaries, he's the only one who is genuinely unhappy being a hero and literally would be better off if he wasn't.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:54
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Invalid Validation posted:I don't think most of the people who post in this thread like superheroes or the comics they spend a lot of time reading. I don't spend a lot of time reading comics.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:00
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Burkion posted:An actual Ditko inspired Spider-Man would have a core of hate and aggression running through him that none of the movies have ever matched. He wasn't much of a jokey guy, just a dude who was dealing with a lot of poo poo and had to deal with psychopaths and super criminals because if he didn't more people would die and for some reason none of the millions of other super heroes in New York City could be bothered to care. The reality is that Peter grows over time, and saying he doesn't enjoy being a superhero is not really true. He's definitely joking around a lot in the early issues, and there is a real clear progression of his character. Being Spider-Man makes him a better person. The dual nature of his authorship basically is a Steve Ditko learning to have Stan Lee's charm and sense of humor.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:25
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Grendels Dad posted:... because they think he is an rear end in a top hat, for the reasons stated two posts above yours? Read what they said, he doesn't help the villain of the movie, even though he's doing exactly that by researching his own blood. Oh no, he's not always there for aunt may, literally part of being Spider-Man, which is why I love the use of the eggs, something super delicate, yet he's able to do his job and bring them home in the end. The movies are about a teenager accepting the "responsibility" of being super powered. I'm surprised they didn't bring up mean old Peter not keeping his promise to a dying cpt. Stacey.
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Jul 17, 2016 23:22
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Invalid Validation posted:I don't think most of the people who post in this thread like superheroes or the comics they spend a lot of time reading. Hating superhero comics is like the prime prerequisite for every superhero comics fan.
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Jul 18, 2016 00:02
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bushisms.txt posted:Read what they said, he doesn't help the villain of the movie, even though he's doing exactly that by researching his own blood. Oh no, he's not always there for aunt may, literally part of being Spider-Man, which is why I love the use of the eggs, something super delicate, yet he's able to do his job and bring them home in the end. The movies are about a teenager accepting the "responsibility" of being super powered. I'm surprised they didn't bring up mean old Peter not keeping his promise to a dying cpt. Stacey. Nothing Peter does is intended to or actually does help Harry Osborne. He doesn't research is own blood, he's researching his father, curious about how he disappeared. When he discovers reasons why it might be dangerous for Harry to use his blood, he doesn't explain why – which would give Harry the ability to make informed decisions and try to research a way around things – he just says it's dangerous and refuses to help. Harry turns out to be the villain, but Peter has no way to see that coming, he just knows his old friend is dying. It's not a question of him being there for his aunt. He's actively dismissive and rude to her when they interact.
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Jul 18, 2016 00:36
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Yaws posted:Why? "You're not Superman, you know", from Raimi's film, gets right to the heart of it. Spiderman is Superman - exactly the same character - except a certifiable dumbass. All those kitten-out-of-a-tree 'boyscout' accusations actually apply to the Spiderman character - though it's obfuscated by the fact that Parker does it all 'ironically'. You know the catchphrases: "your friendly neighbourhood Spiderman", "did somebody call for a webslinger?", and so-on, where he's yukking it up at the idea of being a mere greengrocer or plumber. The irony is there to distance the character from the fact that'll ok that's precisely what he is. Put four Spidermans on a team and you end up with the ghostbusters. "Catches thieves just like flies!" SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 02:19
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I'm a lowly blue collar slob and I feel an affinity for the Spiderman character. At least more so than the other popular superheros. Superman is an alien God who is impossible to relate to, Batman is a billionaire with psychological problems etc. Parker is an everyman. I dig that.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:35
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Yaws posted:I'm a lowly blue collar slob and I feel an affinity for the Spiderman character. At least more so than the other popular superheros. Superman is an alien God who is impossible to relate to, Batman is a billionaire with psychological problems etc. Parker is an everyman. I dig that. Known blue collar job photography.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:36
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computer parts posted:Known blue collar job photography. Doesn't he work at a pizza place in one of the Raimi movies?
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Jul 18, 2016 02:37
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Yaws posted:I'm a lowly blue collar slob and I feel an affinity for the Spiderman character. At least more so than the other popular superheros. Superman is an alien God who is impossible to relate to, Batman is a billionaire with psychological problems etc. Parker is an everyman. I dig that. Superman is a Methodist midwestern farmboy. Spider-Man is from the big city. I relate much more with Superman.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:39
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