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MikeCrotch posted:Killing the head of government while you are performing a coup is generally a bad idea, since power then devolves to the second in command who you might not have a hold of. Plus it kind of opens the door for open season on heads of state, which isn't exactly the best idea when you are trying to impose a new head of state. It's still open season, just now on the would be head of state, other members of the military, judges, Gulenists and anyone else who's ever looked funny at Erdogan.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:04
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steinrokkan posted:I mean, politically there's no difference between a judge being deposed, and a judge being killed in the short term... But I don't think even Erdogan, being the huge oval office he is, would actually stoop down to murdering the thousands of people arrested by him in these days. Yeah, North Korea is just about the only country in the world that can get away with mass execution nowadays, not even China does that poo poo anymore. Speaking of which, executing all those conscripts will basically put Turkey on par with China in terms of the number of people executed each year, with like 1/20 of the population, and that's just not going to happen. I hope.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:08
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Shanghaied posted:Yeah, North Korea is just about the only country in the world that can get away with mass execution nowadays, not even China does that poo poo anymore. Speaking of which, executing all those conscripts will basically put Turkey on par with China in terms of the number of people executed each year, with like 1/20 of the population, and that's just not going to happen. I hope. Sisi didn't hesitate to sentence to death over 500 Muslim Brothers in one day.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:12
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mobby_6kl posted:His F-16 got shot down by the police? It's possible of course, but also I suspect that he might've been uninvolved and just got purged perhaps to also appease Putin. When was the last time the Turks and Russians were allies? Were they ever?
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Jul 18, 2016 01:30
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I don't think they ever have been.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:39
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Wikipedia tells me there were a couple points during the Napoleonic Wars where Russia and the Ottoman Empire were both part of the coalition against France, if not actually enthusiastically cooperating with each other militarily.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:49
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Cat Mattress posted:Sisi didn't hesitate to sentence to death over 500 Muslim Brothers in one day. Sentencing people to death is just how they say "hello" in Sisi's Egypt. 90% of those aren't being carried out (according to a human rights report I just googled)
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Jul 18, 2016 01:50
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lol
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Jul 18, 2016 01:52
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So the gulenists dont even have power in the military. They havw power in the police force. Yet they staged the coup? Almost sounds like a setup. If the gulenists had been part of the coup the police would have been arresting parlimentary members. Not coup supporters. Almost sounds like a reichstag burning
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Jul 18, 2016 01:54
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The X-man cometh posted:When was the last time the Turks and Russians were allies? Were they ever? Napoleonic war, kind of. IIRC the Russians/Muscovy did team up with the Crimean Tartars a couple of times against Poles or other Tartars, but I dont remember if the Crimeans were part of the Ottoman Empire at that time.Was definitly before 1581 (after Crimean tatars burned down moscow, and took like 100K slaves, alliances were out. Russia/Muscovy from that point prepfered to team up with the various Nogai hordes). Pretty sure that the Ottos did not help Russia in their various wars with Persia (or vice versa). There was also some hilarity during Russian Civil War. IIRC the former Ottoman commander initially joined the Bolsheviks, then turned on them and tried to build a Mega Turkistan in Central Asia, but couldnt get the various Kasachs/Turkmen/Uzbeks/Kirghiz etc. to cooperate (hated each other more then they hated teh Soviets) so he died charging a Soviet machine gun. And no, that was not even close to the craziest thing that happened that war.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:03
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Mightypeon posted:Napoleonic war, kind of. I think the craziest had to be Urgan Von Sternberg.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:11
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Crowsbeak posted:I think the craziest had to be Urgan Von Sternberg. Discovering that there's a lengthy finnish wikipedia article on this character and not even a reference on the english site, is a great example of how full of holes our greatest repository of general reference remains in TYOOL 2016.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:18
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The X-man cometh posted:When was the last time the Turks and Russians were allies? Were they ever? my last game of diplomacy
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Jul 18, 2016 02:22
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Rime posted:Discovering that there's a lengthy finnish wikipedia article on this character and not even a reference on the english site, is a great example of how full of holes our greatest repository of general reference remains in TYOOL 2016. He's right here on English wikipedia.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:25
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Pakled posted:He's right here on English wikipedia. Why in the blazes did google decide the finnish result was most appropriate then. 
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Jul 18, 2016 02:35
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Shanghaied posted:Yeah, North Korea is just about the only country in the world that can get away with mass execution nowadays, not even China does that poo poo anymore. Speaking of which, executing all those conscripts will basically put Turkey on par with China in terms of the number of people executed each year, with like 1/20 of the population, and that's just not going to happen. I hope. What do you mean by "get away with." Because North Korea gets strongly worded letters about the human rights situation just like Assad, Iran, China, KSA, or anyone else.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:37
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Volkerball posted:What do you mean by "get away with." Because North Korea gets strongly worded letters about the human rights situation just like Assad, Iran, China, KSA, or anyone else. Strongly worded letters are not real world consequences, and you can bet that if KSA, Pakistan or Egypt executed thousands each year like NK and PRC then there's gonna be real talk about cutting aid or blocking arms deals in Western legislatures.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:39
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Pakled posted:He's right here on English wikipedia. Wait, I thought Kaiserreich made most of this up. He actually became a fascist Khan?
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Jul 18, 2016 04:16
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Crowsbeak posted:I think the craziest had to be Urgan Von Sternberg. a good map video on the whole civil war including sternberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGIZ0iGlrno
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Jul 18, 2016 04:29
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Wait, I thought Kaiserreich made most of this up. He actually became a fascist Khan? He and Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck occupy a special place in alternate history circles.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:37
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Wait, I thought Kaiserreich made most of this up. He actually became a fascist Khan? And turned up in a novel based on Lovecraftian horrors and modern espionage. As a bad guy. On that scale. Without a lot of exaggeration. That's "The Fuller Memorandum" by Charlie Stross.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:59
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Wait, I thought Kaiserreich made most of this up. He actually became a fascist Khan? Yes. He also believed in an extreme version of Buddhism that justified mass murder on the grounds that re-incarnation would bring about a better society. He believed so strongly that he was the reincarnation Ghengis Khan that he invaded Siberia with, like one army division in 1921. He didn't live much longer.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:08
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Shanghaied posted:Strongly worded letters are not real world consequences, and you can bet that if KSA, Pakistan or Egypt executed thousands each year like NK and PRC then there's gonna be real talk about cutting aid or blocking arms deals in Western legislatures. lol like how the USA cut aid to Egypt after the Rabaa massacre? Wait actually in reality it changed nothing.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:09
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Emanuel Collective posted:Yes. He also believed in an extreme version of Buddhism that justified mass murder on the grounds that re-incarnation would bring about a better society. He believed so strongly that he was the reincarnation Ghengis Khan that he invaded Siberia with, like one army division in 1921. He didn't live much longer. "At his trial in Novo-Nikolaevsk, he was a calm, even dignified, prisoner. He had foreseen his fate and accepted it. The prosecution was most interested in portraying him as an agent of the Japanese, which he denied. However, the Baron readily admitted to mass killings and other atrocities. So far as his brutal discipline was concerned, he proclaimed himself a believer in a system that had existed “since Frederick the Great.” He went before the firing squad quite convinced that someday he would be back." Dude could have been a bad guy straight out of a horror novel.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:42
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Reminder that that dude was about as old as most of us here.quote:
sounds like a badass i say swears online fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 05:48
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Aliquid posted:Reminder that that dude was about as old as most of us here. This sounds like his most Lovecraftian aspect at any rate.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:08
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...and the purging of the police force begins, starting with 8 000 Turkish police officers sacked. http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/18/turkey-sacks-8000-police-officers-after-attempted-coup-6012770/ That's the military, courts, and police force in less than half a week. Good job, Erdogan.
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Jul 18, 2016 09:42
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It's me, I'm the bad coup F16 pilot, and my superiors can't read a map  
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Jul 18, 2016 09:43
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Ungern-Sternberg was boss. Dude literally thought a pan-mongolian empire based on shamanist rites and warrior aristocracy was the way to go, and dude charged headlong into Russia to restore the Romanovs on his own because his Preussian commanders thought he was too bloodthirsty to command az posted:It's me, I'm the bad coup F16 pilot, and my superiors can't read a map Lol, what's this from?
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Jul 18, 2016 10:17
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http://www.thegoparcade.com/game/bomb-the-right-place It's pretty great.
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Jul 18, 2016 10:23
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Mightypeon posted:There was also some hilarity during Russian Civil War. IIRC the former Ottoman commander initially joined the Bolsheviks, then turned on them and tried to build a Mega Turkistan in Central Asia, but couldnt get the various Kasachs/Turkmen/Uzbeks/Kirghiz etc. to cooperate (hated each other more then they hated teh Soviets) so he died charging a Soviet machine gun. Not just any old Ottoman commander either, Enver Pasha, one of the Young Turks and one of the main men behind the Armenian Genocide.
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Jul 18, 2016 10:38
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az posted:It's me, I'm the bad coup F16 pilot, and my superiors can't read a map Bombed iraq by mistake on the first one.
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Jul 18, 2016 11:06
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Ianiniho posted:Not just any old Ottoman commander either, Enver Pasha, one of the Young Turks and one of the main men behind the Armenian Genocide. THAT Enver Pasha? WW1 Day by Day tought me all about him. Guy pretty much single-handed got Turkey into the war, lost every campaign through his mismanagement and blamed everyone else, condemns millions to a genocide, later on loses the Empire that's stood for centuries, are and THEN goes on to do that!?! If the guy was a Hollywood villain pf the evil grand-visar no one would believe it.
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Jul 18, 2016 11:25
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Crowsbeak posted:I think the craziest had to be Urgan Von Sternberg. Ding! The candidate wins 100 points!
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Jul 18, 2016 11:37
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What kind of poo poo govt structure lets the prez fire so many people
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Jul 18, 2016 11:42
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Comstar posted:THAT Enver Pasha? WW1 Day by Day tought me all about him. Guy pretty much single-handed got Turkey into the war, lost every campaign through his mismanagement and blamed everyone else, condemns millions to a genocide, later on loses the Empire that's stood for centuries, are and THEN goes on to do that!?! If the guy was a Hollywood villain pf the evil grand-visar no one would believe it. I would disagree with getting Turkey single handed into the war. Turkey was pretty much bound to enter the war on whoseever side Russia was not on, but other then that, yeah thats him. Soviets eventually turning him into a sieve did wonders in making Soviet rule in Armenia accepted.
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Jul 18, 2016 11:43
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quote:"We would be disappointed if our (American) friends told us to present proof even though members of the assassin organization are trying to destroy an elected government under the directions of that person," Yildirim said, referring to Gulen and his supporters in Turkey and abroad. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZY168
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Jul 18, 2016 12:23
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That ups the ante a bit. I guess we're about to find out just how much the US needs that airbase.
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Jul 18, 2016 12:31
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Pakled posted:Wikipedia tells me there were a couple points during the Napoleonic Wars where Russia and the Ottoman Empire were both part of the coalition against France, if not actually enthusiastically cooperating with each other militarily. 30 years war as well, I think, though that's way further back, of course.
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Jul 18, 2016 12:49
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Well who else can be there friends?
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Jul 18, 2016 13:06
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