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Parallax posted:Harry Ord should be on the top of best boyfriend/husband/most fashionable I'll give you two out of three. Harry's second place in most fashionable, Treize exists after all.
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Jul 18, 2016 20:57
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Harry is already Laura's boyfriend though.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:10
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I finished build fighters and Fellini is both the best husband and boyfriend and why the hell isn't Try a sequel about these characters wtf
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Jul 18, 2016 21:34
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I started my next gundam series today. Its pretty good so far but all these zakus look weird
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Jul 18, 2016 21:41
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Don't worry Treize, you may have lost against Heero but your still a cool dude in my heart.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:51
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Kuvo posted:I started my next gundam series today. Its pretty good so far but all these zakus look weird Ah the practice suits from build fighters
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Jul 18, 2016 22:42
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Waffleman_ posted:Harry is already Laura's boyfriend though. Didn't stop him from making out with Kihel and Poe. Harry Ord is enough of a gentleman to realize that it's unfair to the world to restrict himself to one set of hot makeouts. Truly, he is the man all Lunarians should aspire to be. Unrelatedly, I was looking at the start of the last Gundam thread, and man. Things have improved a lot on the Gundam front since 2012. The Origin mangas localized, the first season of Iron Blooded Orphans and Build Fighters being good, the Origin and Thunderbolt OVAs, and Age far enough behind us we can ignore everything except some of the mech designs. It's a fine time to be alive.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:56
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chiasaur11 posted:Didn't stop him from making out with Kihel and Poe. How quickly you forget that Build Fighters Try:  .
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Jul 19, 2016 02:59
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Kuvo posted:I started my next gundam series today. Its pretty good so far but all these zakus look weird good choice
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Jul 19, 2016 03:01
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Neddy Seagoon posted:How quickly you forget that Build Fighters Try: I said good. I didn't say perfect.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:04
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Kuvo posted:I started my next gundam series today. Its pretty good so far but all these zakus look weird *smooth jazz intensifies*
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Jul 19, 2016 03:58
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ninjewtsu posted:?????????? Nothing at all, I loved each character but can't even recall the overall plot. I just remember for some reason most people list it as one of the worst Also, no one compares the characters in it vs other series. Is it because they're comparing people within the same timeline and there isn't anything else in wing?
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Jul 19, 2016 04:38
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Philosopher King posted:Nothing at all, I loved each character but can't even recall the overall plot. I just remember for some reason most people list it as one of the worst Also, no one compares the characters in it vs other series. Is it because they're comparing people within the same timeline and there isn't anything else in wing? Yeah, Wing's plot was kind of all over the goddamn place. Treize's motives were... complex.
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Jul 19, 2016 04:44
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holy gently caress thunderbolt december sky is good holy gently caress thunderbolt december sky is brutal
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Jul 19, 2016 05:16
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Philosopher King posted:Nothing at all, I loved each character but can't even recall the overall plot. I just remember for some reason most people list it as one of the worst Also, no one compares the characters in it vs other series. Is it because they're comparing people within the same timeline and there isn't anything else in wing? Wing's plot is almost completely incomprehensible. Everyone switches sides a dozen times except Treize who is always on his own side. I imagine a lot of that is backlash because it's still so popular in the west, being the first Gundam that aired here. But it's a fun show in its own right, has some great MS design, good characters. It's really just the overarching plot that's a complete mess. People usually only compare back to the UC because it has a lot of archetypes that are seriously overused in pretty much every Gundam series.
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Jul 19, 2016 06:53
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Kuvo posted:holy gently caress thunderbolt december sky is good I agree with two more than one, for reasons I think I discussed at length already. Of course, that was the episodes instead of the movie, but there's only a couple minutes difference, so I think passing judgement is fairish. It's gorgeous, and the soundtrack rules, but the plot goes so bleak it warps around to being funny. Since no-one values anyone's life, the viewer isn't given much incentive to either. Further, while the skirmishes are drat good looking, only the psycho zaku versus the Gundam actually felt like a fight. (that is to say, an interchange of violent action where either party could harm the other.) Mostly it's just brutal one sided slaughters. It's thematic, and mostly it works even aside from the animation being gorgeous, but drat. Piloting one of the cold types in the opening of 080 lets you go out with more dignity than the poor bastards in Thunderbolt's GMs. Plus, (and I know this is not a problem unique to Thunderbolt among Gundam serieses but man it stood out and I am not usually the guy who notices this kind of thing) the treatment of female characters... hooboy. Just... that was a thing. It was not a good thing. But yeah. I will say that, if you want good looking robokill set to slick jazz, Gundam Thunderbolt is what you're looking for. (Also, on the topic of short OVAs, finally watched Stargazer. That was surprisingly good for something attached to Seed Destiny.) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 07:17
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chiasaur11 posted:Plus, (and I know this is not a problem unique to Thunderbolt among Gundam serieses but man it stood out and I am not usually the guy who notices this kind of thing) the treatment of female characters... hooboy. Just... that was a thing. It was not a good thing. I'll bite. You mentioned this when I watched Thunderbolt and wrote down my thoughts. If we can keep it civil, would you mind explaining this a bit more? Because I'm not quite seeing what you're seeing, so perhaps enlighten me?
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Jul 19, 2016 08:19
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'll bite. You mentioned this when I watched Thunderbolt and wrote down my thoughts. If we can keep it civil, would you mind explaining this a bit more? Because I'm not quite seeing what you're seeing, so perhaps enlighten me? Both of the major female characters are largely useless weepy messes who pretty much exist to suffer and make their love interests feel bad. Yes, everyone suffers in Thunderbolt, but most of the other major characters at least have some agency in it all. Claudia and Karla are pretty much just punching-bags all the way through. For the record, things do improve a little in the second arc, which the anime doesn't cover. The Federation faction ends up being commanded by a smart, tough-as-nails old lady, and Io gets a very entertaining female ace pilot to watch his back. Horrible things may well end up headed their way, but for the moment, the situation's pretty OK. Also, joining a Newtype cult does remarkable things for Claudia's self-confidence and command talent. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 08:30
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Darth Walrus posted:Both of the major female characters are largely useless weepy messes who pretty much exist to suffer and make their love interests feel bad. Yes, everyone suffers in Thunderbolt, but most of the other major characters at least have some agency in it all. Claudia and Karla are pretty much just punching-bags all the way through. Yeah, pretty much. I mean Claudia needs to be slapped out of her hysteria by Io when she's his loving commanding officer. I actually had to pause because I couldn't believe the show went there.
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Jul 19, 2016 08:40
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Darth Walrus posted:Both of the major female characters are largely useless weepy messes who pretty much exist to suffer and make their love interests feel bad. Yes, everyone suffers in Thunderbolt, but most of the other major characters at least have some agency in it all. Claudia and Karla are pretty much just punching-bags all the way through. Well, I can't really argue with that, except to say that's rather par for the course with Gundam series in the UC (Tomino shows at least). There is some weird gender politics flying around these shows. So far as these two, I'd say Claudia came off better than Karla. Claudia's situation is definitely the harder one to deal with, because she is in way over her head. Karla stays around and commits horrible acts against Daryl because Zeon is blackmailing her for her father's dissidence. Claudia, however, has been thrust into a command position due to her superiors being dead and her status as a member of Moore's ruling class. She's the kids from the White Base crew except old enough to realize the weight put on her, and failing to handle the pressure. Remember those episodes where Mirai had to cover for Bright, and she nearly got the crew killed? Replace her with Claudia, and have that be the entire journey of the White Base with more and more dead children piling up each episode. I'm not saying you're wrong. I am saying that, while this is what I gleaned from the show, having not read the manga, she does have some characterization going for her, but her arc is cut short by the condensed running time. The same can be said for Cornelius and Graham as well. Karla on the other hand I didn't care much for, because she was introduced as the weepy girlfriend, and stayed that way throughout the show. But I will defend Claudia because of her unenviable position.
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Jul 19, 2016 08:44
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well, I can't really argue with that, except to say that's rather par for the course with Gundam series in the UC (Tomino shows at least). There is some weird gender politics flying around these shows. So far as these two, I'd say Claudia came off better than Karla. Claudia's situation is definitely the harder one to deal with, because she is in way over her head. Karla stays around and commits horrible acts against Daryl because Zeon is blackmailing her for her father's dissidence. Claudia, however, has been thrust into a command position due to her superiors being dead and her status as a member of Moore's ruling class. She's the kids from the White Base crew except old enough to realize the weight put on her, and failing to handle the pressure. Remember those episodes where Mirai had to cover for Bright, and she nearly got the crew killed? Replace her with Claudia, and have that be the entire journey of the White Base with more and more dead children piling up each episode. I think the big issue with Claudia is that she's placed opposite the Living Dead captain, who handles an extremely similar no-win situation with far more dignity. Also, that we're short on other, more competent and dignified female characters to counterbalance her. Making, say, Darryl's grizzled old friend who saves the fleet a woman would have gone a big way.
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Jul 19, 2016 09:01
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well, I can't really argue with that, except to say that's rather par for the course with Gundam series in the UC (Tomino shows at least). There is some weird gender politics flying around these shows. So far as these two, I'd say Claudia came off better than Karla. Claudia's situation is definitely the harder one to deal with, because she is in way over her head. Karla stays around and commits horrible acts against Daryl because Zeon is blackmailing her for her father's dissidence. Claudia, however, has been thrust into a command position due to her superiors being dead and her status as a member of Moore's ruling class. She's the kids from the White Base crew except old enough to realize the weight put on her, and failing to handle the pressure. Remember those episodes where Mirai had to cover for Bright, and she nearly got the crew killed? Replace her with Claudia, and have that be the entire journey of the White Base with more and more dead children piling up each episode. I see what you're saying but, well, that was thirty years ago. And even then, you had people like Emma around who had their issues more or less sorted out. Or at least, as sorted as anyone in Gundam. People have moved on, Tomino included. Just compare Turn A to some of the earlier shows to see proof of that. (I suppose it also factors into my response that the version of Mirai I've got the most experience with is the one in Origins, who has her poo poo firmly secured. ) Claudia's The Captain, and that means she's going to get compared to other characters in the same role. Bright especially, given that it's the UC. Now Bright fucks up. A lot. He's a junior officer given command of a ship full of civilians, and charged with winning a war, and he's about as prepared for his duties as you'd expect. But Bright never fucks up as bad as Claudia does, which considering how close Bright came to losing the Federation the Gundam sometimes, is saying a lot. Bright is a nervous wreck, but he's able to make decisions under pressure, even if they're often wrong. Meanwhile, Claudia just vanishes into her room to do space drugs, and her arc is never resolved. She's a fuckup, then when most characters would get a conclusion, she gets shot in the gut and spaced. And, since the most obvious difference is gender... well, it's a bad look. If there were more female characters, it might not be so bad. Claudia and Karla would be easy enough to take as just badly damaged individuals, in the same way that Katz being a lost cause doesn't say anything about male characters in general in Zeta. But, with only the two of them on screen, well. Well.
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Jul 19, 2016 09:39
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I have been watching Zeta Gundam all the way through for the 3rd time and now I am starting to notice a bunch of things that get the hell on my nerves. 1) Char's character. He starts off being pretty good, but by the show's end it just seems like he gets owned in most battles then he pretty much gets good again by Char's Counterattack. Not to mention, he simply seems like a completely different person here, which is fine coming off of the original MSG and him growing up a little bit, but by Char's Counterattack, he basically goes off the deep end for reasons I guess. 2) I guess the AEUG is really desperate for lovely pilots considering all of the useless ones they tend to recruit. 3) The show obviously leads into ZZ Gundam, but a large problem I find is that the last couple of episodes are so packed with stuff that it kind of seems rushed. Meanwhile, there are other episodes where it feels like filler, which knowing the history with a lot of animes, probably what it might be. 4) There are quite a bit of underdeveloped villains. It feels like its a problem when you know more about Ramba Ral from the original series who wasn't even the main antagonist, than you do about Scirroco. 5) gently caress Katz and Reccoa.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:16
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Char does fine considering how the Hyaku Shiki was woefully outclassed by the end of the Gryps war and Reccoa gets an unfair rap for falling under the sway of a psychic with nigh-vampiric charisma. 
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Jul 19, 2016 22:26
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Katz owns
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Jul 19, 2016 22:30
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Srice posted:Katz owns Yeah he does, as a corpse. Artum posted:Char does fine considering how the Hyaku Shiki was woefully outclassed by the end of the Gryps war and Reccoa gets an unfair rap for falling under the sway of a psychic with nigh-vampiric charisma. Fair enough about Char. But no really, gently caress Reccoa. Emma basically telling her that no one will care about her when she was gone was the best thing Emma ever did.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:41
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Emma is the goddamn best and telling Reccoa she's an idiot is only one of her many great feats. It's honestly a wonder she's a character in "everyone is a jerkass or useless" Zeta Gundam. Reccoa is horrible and I'm glad even Japanese women think she's insane.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:44
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Katz's character arc is good because in a nutshell it's basically a kid emulating his hero but without all of the lucky breaks that Amuro had, nor does he understand that Amuro had his share of problems and wasn't just a hero who effortlessly saved the day. Blind, uncritical hero worship is bad.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:46
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Srice posted:Katz's character arc is good because in a nutshell it's basically a kid emulating his hero but without all of the lucky breaks that Amuro had, nor does he understand that Amuro had his share of problems and wasn't just a hero who effortlessly saved the day. I realize this isn't the first time you've said this but I agree.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:56
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Artum posted:Char does fine considering how the Hyaku Shiki was woefully outclassed by the end of the Gryps war and Reccoa gets an unfair rap for falling under the sway of a psychic with nigh-vampiric charisma. And a snappy dress sense.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:57
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Katz is the best because his death is hilarious. He couldn't even die in a cool/heroic way.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:00
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T.G. Xarbala posted:I realize this isn't the first time you've said this but I agree. I'm always down with going over it again since I do think it's one of the better written parts of Zeta. There are complaints that I won't go to bat for (pacing, some stuff surrounding Reccoa) but Katz will always be one! Monaghan posted:Katz is the best because his death is hilarious. He couldn't even die in a cool/heroic way. It's good that he didn't because it would legit ruin the point.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:15
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well, I can't really argue with that, except to say that's rather par for the course with Gundam series in the UC (Tomino shows at least). There is some weird gender politics flying around these shows. So far as these two, I'd say Claudia came off better than Karla. Claudia's situation is definitely the harder one to deal with, because she is in way over her head. Karla stays around and commits horrible acts against Daryl because Zeon is blackmailing her for her father's dissidence. Claudia, however, has been thrust into a command position due to her superiors being dead and her status as a member of Moore's ruling class. She's the kids from the White Base crew except old enough to realize the weight put on her, and failing to handle the pressure. Remember those episodes where Mirai had to cover for Bright, and she nearly got the crew killed? Replace her with Claudia, and have that be the entire journey of the White Base with more and more dead children piling up each episode. The anime pretty much covered everything in the manga related to Claudia. She's incredibly out of her depth, she cracks under pressure, gets slapped by Io, flees to her room to get super high on space drugs, finally decides "hey maybe I should try being a commander", then gets killed by a bitter subordinate when poo poo hits the fan. That's it. Her arc is pretty horrid and utterly pointless, and not even in a "we're trying to show how pointless war is" way, she just doesn't even need to exist as a character. You can make justifications for why she is the way she is, but it doesn't change the fact that she doesn't actually add anything to the show besides another female character to put on the BD art. I think Karla is far better, even though I'm still not particularly fond of her. Her internal conflict(I was inspired by my disabled dad to become a prosthetics specialist but now I'm being blackmailed into using my specialization for a war I hate) is relatively okay and the sheer ironic agony she has to go through by deliberately dismembering someone she would ordinarily be trying to restore functionality to is pretty poignant and relevant to the show/manga arc's "Wow, war is really pointless, stupid, and wasteful" message. Unlike Claudia, her continued presence is actually somewhat important both as the developer/gatekeeper to the Psycho Zaku and an active inspiration to Darryl, whereas Io doesn't really care about or remember Claudia in the slightest during his final clash and Claudia has no function in the plot.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:30
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I think she does add to the show in the way she contrasts with the captain of the living dead division, which let's the broach the differences in ideology between zeon and the federation. On one hand you have a guy who willingly throws his men into certain death because zeon calls for it. On the other you have an inexperienced commander who cannot handle the pressure and fails to interact with her subordinates due to the class divide inherent in Moores social structure, and the moment she makes a decision, she is still operating from her own view of trying to save lives rather than what her enlisted men actually want. I like the parallel there. You cannot take off the gendered lens of course, but it's not the only form of criticism you can use to analyze Claudia's scenes. I dunno, maybe if she survived getting shot and blown into space she will get better. I maybe oxygen deprivation will make her move to side six and live in a junkyard
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Jul 20, 2016 01:41
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There's a lot of fat in Zeta and it would be vastly better as a 26-episode show, but there are some pretty solid themes and character arcs. A big part of Kamille's arc is going from believing the myth of Char as a badass rebel to seeing him as a huge tool. While Haman and Scirocco are overwhelmingly powerful newtypes with grand plans, Char is a middling newtype who constantly undermines his long-term plans with short-sighted impulsiveness. He's sympathetic because he regrets what he did in MSG, but he reacts by running away from any responsibility. He ends up regretting the mistakes he makes in Zeta...and deals with it in an even worse way. The show tears down the "newtype ideal" as it goes from an idealistic struggle between the Titan and anti-Titan factions, to a realpolitik game between the AEUG, Titans, and Neo-Zeon, to an emotion-driven melee between the survivors.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:20
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Kuvo posted:I started my next gundam series today. Its pretty good so far but all these zakus look weird What the hell am I looking at?
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Jul 20, 2016 04:57
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Katz death out of all them was the one that ruined me the most. He was just a good stupid kid. And then he died in a stupid way. Katz  Also the best thing Char did in Zeta was getting shot out in his fail assassination attempt in the most badass way possible.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:00
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Philosopher King posted:What the hell am I looking at? Go watch VOTOMS, you fool.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:03
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Philosopher King posted:What the hell am I looking at? No Zaku.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:11
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Philosopher King posted:What the hell am I looking at? It's a Scopedog from VOTOMS.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:12
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