UKMT July 2016 - Thank you very much. Do doooooo do do. Right.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT July 2016 - Thank you very much. Do doooooo do do. Right.

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Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

LemonyTang posted:

Nice to see the SNP voting for that, even though PR would gut them. Although 16/17 year old voters would do them a favour I guess?

Under FPTP they have peaked with near enough every seat in Scotland. Since they can only go down from here anyway, might as well take the principled stand. It's not like they do badly out of Holyrood's PR system

# ? Jul 21, 2016 11:57

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:35

floofyscorp: Feb 12, 2007

Thanks for the links! My MP wasn't even there, and after I wrote her a long email urging her to vote too :sigh:

Any idea why Labour would whip for abstention? Is it just because of that stupid AV referendum shambles or was there some other reason?

I can't understand why people defend the FPTP system when proportional representation systems seem so absolutely superior, but maybe that's because we've used PR(STV system iirc) in Ireland for as long as I've been around and it's not new or scary to me.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 11:59

Zohar: Jul 14, 2013; Good kitty

floofyscorp posted:

Thanks for the links! My MP wasn't even there, and after I wrote her a long email urging her to vote too

Any idea why Labour would whip for abstention? Is it just because of that stupid AV referendum shambles or was there some other reason?

I can't understand why people defend the FPTP system when proportional representation systems seem so absolutely superior, but maybe that's because we've used PR(STV system iirc) in Ireland for as long as I've been around and it's not new or scary to me.

Not sure but bear in mind that it wasn't just a motion for PR, it also called for the voting age to be lowered to 16 which Parliament has already rejected like half a dozen times in the last few years.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:01

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

ronya posted:

tbf there really are a lot of people who like centrism as long as it's not packaged as centrism or compromise

Tbh I think mostly it's the opposite. Most people like fairly left or right ideas as long as they're packaged as centrism, nobody wants to be labelled "extreme".

Wealthy people like centrism packaged as soft left because it makes themselves feel better.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:04

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

RandomPauI posted:

Is a boundary review akin to when the US has districts redrawn?

Essentially yes, although this one has happened because we've decided to reduce the number of MPs from 650 to 600. The Boundaries Commission is politically neutral though, despite the government of the day appointing the people to sit on it for 4 year terms (I think 4 years is right). So it's not quite as terrible as the US redrawing of districts. Or at least it's not meant to be.

Cerv posted:

"For some reason" is the party leadership whipped for abstention.

I'm more impressed that the leadership whipped for something & most of the MPs did it!

OK, fair enough, most of them probably agree with being poo poo on PR. Which is a shame. Another reason Clive Lewis is good.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:07

Zohar: Jul 14, 2013; Good kitty

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Tbh I think mostly it's the opposite. Most people like fairly left or right ideas as long as they're packaged as centrism, nobody wants to be labelled "extreme".

Wealthy people like centrism packaged as soft left because it makes themselves feel better.

Where's that poll from ages ago which showed most Brits supported BNP policies as long as they weren't associated with the BNP

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:08

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Zohar posted:

Where's that poll from ages ago which showed most Brits supported BNP policies as long as they weren't associated with the BNP

Are we talking the "nationalize key industry" and "secure a job with living pay for every school leaver" policies or the "bring back capital punishment in schools" and "deport all coloreds and queers" policies?

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:11

floofyscorp: Feb 12, 2007

Well colour me surprised, my MP actually responded just now to that email I sent her about the PR bill. That's nice!

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:15

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

Guavanaut posted:

Are we talking the "nationalize key industry" and "secure a job with living pay for every school leaver" policies or the "bring back capital punishment in schools" and "deport all coloreds and queers" policies?

Yes.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:15

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Zohar posted:

Where's that poll from ages ago which showed most Brits supported BNP policies as long as they weren't associated with the BNP

It's not even the association with the BNP that puts people off, it's the actual underlying stuff that turns people off (thankfully). The fash have been appropriating populist/left-wing talking points from the very beginning - some even say that's their entire raison d'etre, to de-fang the ascendant leftism of the early 20th century. It's only when you look at the footnotes that the problems start.

Obviously not going to bother looking p the current platform, because I'm sure it'll be much the same, but last time I looked at a BNP leaflet it was pretty much:

PROTECT THE NHS_{by throwing out all the foreigners who come over here to abuse it}
LOWER CRIME_{by locking up all the darkies}
FAIR WAGES FOR FAIR WORK_{Because we know it's the Poles coming over here taking our jobs}
ENDING PUNCH AND JUDY POLITICS_{by banning all political dissent}

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:38

Genetic: Aug 25, 2015

goddamnedtwisto posted:

PROTECT THE NHS_{by throwing out all the foreigners who come over here to abuse it}
LOWER CRIME_{by locking up all the darkies}
FAIR WAGES FOR FAIR WORK_{Because we know it's the Poles coming over here taking our jobs}
ENDING PUNCH AND JUDY POLITICS_{by banning all political dissent}

Having never read a BNP leaflet, the first place my mind went to was 'Daily Mail headline/article combos'. I feel sure I've read at least two of these in the past.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:43

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

He's really doubling down on the aggressive tweets
https://twitter.com/GrahamJones_MP/status/756092532514254848

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:50

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

goddamnedtwisto posted:

It's not even the association with the BNP that puts people off, it's the actual underlying stuff that turns people off (thankfully). The fash have been appropriating populist/left-wing talking points from the very beginning - some even say that's their entire raison d'etre, to de-fang the ascendant leftism of the early 20th century. It's only when you look at the footnotes that the problems start.

It seems over the past few years people inclined to that kind of thing have been moving away from the 'leftist economics with right wing social policy' of the national-socialist parties to nakedly right wing parties like UKIP with their libertarian economics and trad conservative "gay marriage and political correctness have gone mad" and I'm not sure why. They don't even have the excuse of "we'll secure your rights as a worker by punishing those Others", it's straight up "worker's rights are getting in the way of glorious Free Market Britane Plc."

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:51

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Corbyn bad! Very ineffective!

*Corbyn leads what is essentially a purge of all non left-wing MP's making his leadership more dramatic and exciting than Brexit*

He's useless!!!!!!!!!

# ? Jul 21, 2016 12:55

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

Regarde Aduck posted:

Corbyn bad! Very ineffective!

*Corbyn leads what is essentially a purge of all non left-wing MP's making his leadership more dramatic and exciting than Brexit*

He's useless!!!!!!!!!

At getting elected? Yeah, I'd agree.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:00

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Regarde Aduck posted:

Corbyn bad! Very ineffective!

*Corbyn leads what is essentially a purge of all non left-wing MP's making his leadership more dramatic and exciting than Brexit*

He's useless!!!!!!!!!

Corbyn is highly effective

at leading Labour into political obscurity.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:01

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Regarde Aduck posted:

Corbyn bad! Very ineffective!

*Corbyn leads what is essentially a purge of all non left-wing MP's making his leadership more dramatic and exciting than Brexit*

He's useless!!!!!!!!!

Are you deliberately truth to sound like a Donald Trump tweet? You've got the cadence of one down pat.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:01

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

XMNN posted:

that's a bit of a weird list of names

my mp is on it though

i of course meant :unsmith:

the perils of toilet posting

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:07

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Pissflaps posted:

Corbyn is highly effective

at leading Labour into political obscurity.

A bold and fresh new take

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:16

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Barry Foster posted:

A bold and fresh new take

Just stop engaging with him.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:20

hitchensgoespop: Oct 22, 2008

Pissflaps posted:

Corbyn is highly effective

at leading Labour into political obscurity.

This is bad for corbyn

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:22

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

XMNN posted:

i of course meant

the perils of toilet posting

You truly are a shitposter.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:23

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Mandatory reselection.

Here we, here we, here we loving go :getin:

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:26

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

DesperateDan posted:

Mandatory reselection.

Here we, here we, here we loving go

Davey Cameron is a now sadly departed pie

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:28

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

Jedit posted:

You truly are a shitposter.

p much

my boss doesnt like corbyn

although when someone said they quite liked smith he complained that he said something about raising income tax, so i dont think he is a huge loss to the socialist cause

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:29

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

XMNN posted:

p much

my boss doesnt like corbyn

although when someone said they quite liked smith he complained that he said something about raising income tax, so i dont think he is a huge loss to the socialist cause

Bosses are like that. There's a reason the foreman is the prime idiot in the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:31

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

The self evident saltiness of whoever is writing the graun live blog about corbyn's launch is loving delicious

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:34

Alertrelic: Apr 18, 2008

DesperateDan posted:

Mandatory reselection.

Here we, here we, here we loving go

The iron disciplined SNP already has this. Says a lot about the culture of the Labour right that they are so scared of facing competition from their own CLPs.

It will be useful to clear the dead wood from the party.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:34

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

DesperateDan posted:

Mandatory reselection.

Here we, here we, here we loving go

also,

suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 21, 2016

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:35

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

DesperateDan posted:

The self evident saltiness of whoever is writing the graun live blog about corbyn's launch is loving delicious

Andrew Sparrow, political hack of the year�.

Alertrelic posted:

The iron disciplined SNP already has this. Says a lot about the culture of the Labour right that they are so scared of facing competition from their own CLPs.

It will be useful to clear the dead wood from the party.

The PLP is already preparing the 'any talk of mandatory reselection/deselection is bullying and harassment and any CLP found to be discussing such things will be suspended' movement.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:42

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

OvineYeast posted:

Bosses are like that. There's a reason the foreman is the prime idiot in the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

If a man is that which lives within his skin, then what makes a foreman.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:42

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

An attempted knifepoint abduction of a serviceman near an RAF base could be terror-related, police have said.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-07-21/attempted-knifepoint-abduction-of-serviceman-could-be-terror-related/

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:48

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/756104341849829376

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:53

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

It's rude to talk about facts.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 13:58

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Cerv posted:

"For some reason" is the party leadership whipped for abstention.

I honestly think it's something in the water at One Brewers Green. :ohdear:

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:04

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/756104341849829376

As I said earlier, talking about a 'kinder, gentler politics' means that anything Corbyn says that is remotely critical of his opponent will get cries of 'so much for a clean campaign :byodood:

' style comments from the political commentariat.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:12

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/756109814183235585

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:12

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

Guavanaut posted:

If a man is that which lives within his skin, then what makes a foreman.

Is that a quote or did you just come up with it? Excellent either way :dong:

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:21

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/labour-leader-in-the-lords-to-corbyn-stop-taking-credit-for

quote:

But even the most fervently anti-Corbyn advisers and MPs insist this goes beyond party politics and into wider concerns about bad laws being passed: a fear that Labour�s civil war means there is no way the current shadow cabinet could ever realistically provide the necessary checks on the government�s proposals.

One of the main concerns from within the parliamentary party is the lack of a support team to work on the grinding business of opposition, which often involves checking lengthy proposed legislation. Many newly appointed shadow ministers have brought their old researchers with them rather than hiring specialists � meaning staff are suddenly expected to have full understanding of a complicated subject.

Typically, a shadow cabinet minister could rely on the support of a junior team of shadow ministers keeping an eye on legislative progress. Almost all of these positions remain unfilled, leaving inexperienced new MPs to try to master a brand new topic.

Gabriel Huntley, who worked as an adviser for Chuka Ummuna during his stint as shadow business secretary, explained much of the business of opposition is hard work behind the scenes, requiring detailed knowledge of parliamentary procedure that is difficult for a newcomer to pick up.

�The day-to-day stuff is about using the House of Commons and the media to hold the government to account, which is incredibly important from a legislative point of view,� he said. �There�s a lot of getting into the detail, going through legislation clause by clause.�

And this requires a lot of people: �It takes a whole team of shadow ministers and their staff to do that work. The work in opposition is hard unless you have a full complement of ministers.�
Crucially, he insists, the government requires the checks provided by a full-strength opposition to function: �It�s the way the British political system works.�

One former Labour shadow cabinet adviser � who lost their job when their boss resigned last month � said many sacked aides are still helping out with drafting amendments to government legislation on a voluntary basis to prevent bad laws being passed.

�Ordinarily a lot of the shadow teams would do a lot of the nitty-gritty but they don�t have advisers who are experienced in how parliament works. If you�ve got people who have only been in the job for five minutes then with the best will in the world they won�t know how to draft amendments.�

Instead, Labour MPs are just withdrawing from debates.

�People just don�t really care and just aren�t turning up for debates,� said the former aide. �People aren�t putting in questions or putting in to speak.�

They said a desperate text message went around Labour MPs, urging them to turn up to Wednesday�s opposition day debate led by John McDonnell, because they have no respect for the official opposition front bench. �We are having a real problem getting people to speak in our opposition dates,� the adviser said. �Basically at the moment MPs have gone on strike.�

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:28

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:35

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Pissflaps posted:

By adopting the language and tone of a centrist party.

So you'll be switching to the Tories then? Good, I'm glad you've picked something.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 14:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT July 2016 - Thank you very much. Do doooooo do do. Right.

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