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I like when he was actually a villain when he first returned. Everything since then has just made Jason look like an utter tool to me, especially when he lied about sleeping with Starfire.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:21
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Jul 22, 2016 22:25
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WickedHate posted:Red Hood as an anti-hero Punisher type can work, it just needs better than Lobdell. Lobdell can do Punisher Jason, just look at the Future's End issue. Is just that is not a direction it can last. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Jason Todd was Robin. He's still working in Batman's hometown at least partially. The entirety of the Bat-Family knows him personally and He's straight up murdering a lot of people. There's no reason for him to not have been hunted down by Bruce, Dick, Tim or really anyone one associated with them even to try and talk it out with him. The new 52 reboot made it make even less sense since all that history between his resurrection and Red Hood run was erased. He's not murdering a lot of people though. And taking away all the bullshit that came after Under the Red Hood was a brilliant move on DC's side. WickedHate posted:In my ideal hypothetical series Jason wouldn't go out of his way to maximize casualties every time. He does that already Roth posted:Everything since then has just made Jason look like an utter tool to me, especially when he lied about sleeping with Starfire. Jason looking like a tool was the whole point of it. RHATO #1 had the Jason, Roy and Kori and their absolute rock bottom.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:25
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Jason looking like a tool was the whole point of it. RHATO #1 had the Jason, Roy and Kori and their absolute rock bottom. That's cool, I guess. I still find him to be a thoroughly unlikable character that I can't stand.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:28
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Hey WickedHate I'm sure you are referring to when Wonder Woman killed Maxwell Lord but if you actually read the comics Clark and Bruce were both furious about that and it nearly destroyed their friendship. It had huge repercussions through WW for a long time after. Unlike Jason who runs around with guns shooting whoever while writers contort Bruce into being okay with it for some reason.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:29
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Lobdell can do Punisher Jason, just look at the Future's End issue. Is just that is not a direction it can last. Well, it depends on your definition of "Punisher", but in this context I mean "a vigilante who uses lethal force". Future's End issue was pretty good, tho.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:29
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can this be a thread rule?
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Jul 22, 2016 22:30
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Mr Hootington posted:can this be a thread rule? DT is Wayne, then?
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Jul 22, 2016 22:36
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Mr Hootington posted:can this be a thread rule? Nope. He's a DC character, until he's not.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:41
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X-O posted:Nope. He's a DC character, until he's not. ok how about batgirl doing the no pants dance with batman in the killing joke movie? she takes charge.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:49
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X-O posted:Nope. He's a DC character, until he's not. How about "the last time Jason Todd inspired anyone was when he was dead" as a thread title.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:05
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Madkal posted:How about "the last time Jason Todd inspired anyone was when he was dead" as a thread title. That we can do, we'll hold off till Monday in case there's anything else newsworthy out of SDCC.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:14
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Madkal posted:How about "the last time Jason Todd inspired anyone was when he was dead" as a thread title. I actually read Infinite Crisis last night. It's a pretty alright event comic overall, despite suffering from a lot of the things I don't like about event comics.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:18
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:He's not murdering a lot of people though. And taking away all the bullshit that came after Under the Red Hood was a brilliant move on DC's side. His main tool for dealing with anything in a fight is a loving Gun. gently caress off with that "Oh no he's not trying to kill anyone." We've been over this before, they have him straight up murdering people in fights then in the next issue or even the next few pages they'll try and roll it back in some attempt to save face for the character (See: Everything about him murdering Joker's Daughter.) They really want to push him as this hardcore guy who' willing to go farther than Batman/Daddy ever was but they really can't do that with someone like Jason Todd because of his history and place in the world. Jason/Red Hood's entire core conceit is built on top of Batman, more so than Tim and Dick ever were. Dick had the Titans and Nightwing, Tim had Superboy and Impusle in their Young Justice phase, etc. Jason doesn't really anything on his own. He's always been Batman's biggest failure as both a Hero and a Dad. He's one of Joker's shining achievements in his constant battle against Batman. Even in the new 52 stuff this isn't abandoned. The entire identity of The Red Hood is tied directly into Joker and Batman, and one of the biggest emotional plot lines is him helping someone else hosed up by the Joker. He doesn't work as the Gun Toting, "I don't care too much if I kill some villain" hard rear end because no one surrounding Jason Todd would/should put up with that, and they never really let him be his own thing so it's hard to ever separate him from the idea of Batman. it doesn't help that they're constantly flip flopping on how exactly "over the edge" Jason has gone/is willing to go. EDIT: "Well I mean he hasn't murdered THAT many people" isn't a great counter argument for "Why hasn't Batman even tried to catch him/stop him from murdering anyone". Not sure Batman's got a loving quota he's got to let a bad guy make before he'll start caring. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 23:19
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Mr Hootington posted:ok I absolutely hate this
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Jul 22, 2016 23:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The entire identity of The Red Hood is tied directly into joker and batman, and one of the biggest emotional plot lines is him helping someone else hosed up by the Joker. These are legitimate criticisms, and why I say he needs better writing. It's annoying hearing DC say how much he's moved on from Batman when he has the drat symbol on his chest.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:25
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WickedHate posted:I mean, wasn't Batman confronting that basically the plot of Under the Hood? I agree Batman shouldn't be super chipper about it, but he also hangs around Wonder Woman and Katana, and in my ideal hypothetical series Jason wouldn't go out of his way to maximize casualties every time. Yeah but that's what ZenMasterBullshit is saying in his post. "Punisher-in-Gotham" works fine as a character divorced from Batman. Wonder Woman or Katana killing yet still hanging around Batman is kind of weird if you think about it too much, but they're not on his turf all the tone, plus that's what suspension of disbelief is about. Batman letting a former pupil run around killing people while wearing the Bat-symbol is something that shouldn't sit right, because it means Batman is tacitly condoning all the murder. To draw a parallel (probably not a great one but work with me here), think Iron Man 1 (or Armor Wars I guess for a comic example). Tony Stark isn't against all weapons/power armor, but he doesn't want his tech in the wrong hands. Similarly, Batman should not be okay with someone bearing his symbol and training killing.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:27
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WickedHate posted:These are legitimate criticisms, and why I say he needs better writing. It's annoying hearing DC say how much he's moved on from Batman when he has the drat symbol on his chest. I don't think a good writer could do it though without make Jason so different he would be an entirely new character. Everything about him is tied to Batman. If you were going to divorce him that much you might as well have that good writer make a whole new character instead.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:29
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I'm also against the symbol, and frankly, Gotham has enough superheroes as it is, so Jason probably shouldn't bother hanging around either.ZenMasterBullshit posted:I don't think a good writer could do it though without make Jason so different he would be an entirely new character. Everything about him is tied to Batman. If you were going to divorce him that much you might as well have that good writer make a whole new character instead. He was mostly a Dick clone in the beginning. It's not like he's not already a series of revisions here and there.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:30
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WickedHate posted:I'm also against the symbol, and frankly, Gotham has enough superheroes as it is, so Jason probably shouldn't bother hanging around either. I feel like if you want to keep him around as name recognition he's kind of an amazingly great Batman rogue. He's angry, trained by the best (batman), and knows a lot about how Bruce operates and thinks. Him as a bad guy probably works only a few times, but he could harass the rest of the Bat-family or maybe even work for Suicide Squad. They'd finally have their own Batman then.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:33
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Him being opposed to the Bat family could be pretty great, but I don't think it'd work as a full heel turn. Definitely a good fit for the Suicide Squad.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:37
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Please don't put Jason Todd in the thread title. E: Awesome. Lightning Bolt's Brian Chippendale's got a Doom Patrol variant. 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 23:49
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Also back on the Jason-As-Punisher thing, the thing about (well written) Punisher is that they never really try to sell you the idea that Frank Castle is a good guy. In fact, Frank Castle is almost exclusively a massive piece of poo poo beyond redemption. He's obsessive and wrathful and has nothing in his life outside of killing bad people. Even if he's killing bad guys or even helping less Gray heroes, he's never a good person. Jason however they're constantly talking about his struggle to mix the hardcore heroing and being a not total piece of poo poo.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:54
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Teenage Fansub posted:Please don't put Jason Todd in the thread title. If X-O was in a trolling mood he'd put Jason Todd in every thread title.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:08
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Mr Hootington posted:ok  is there any context to this that makes it anything less than "weapons-grade awful", or has the TKJ movie found new ways to disappoint me?
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Jul 23, 2016 00:55
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DrProsek posted:
Nope. It's bad. Check the animation thread.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:56
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DrProsek posted:
The latter. I have not seen the TKJ movie nor do I plan to but for some (no) reason they added a Batgirl/Batman sex scene.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:56
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Oh my loving god, it's Starfire all over again. Goddamn it DC.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:00
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In hindsight, I'm not sure what context I could have expected that would make me go "Oh yeah, given that, Batman and Batgirl loving makes perfect sense!" so I probably could have guessed the answer to my question. Goddamn it DC.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:04
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I'll add some context. after they gently caress batgirl calls batman and says that was great we should do it more and maybe go out. He says no and hangs up
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Jul 23, 2016 01:13
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Nice.
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Jul 23, 2016 02:48
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I'm glad that DC, in their infinite comics wisdom, turned Bruce Wayne into that doucher college roommate you had in sophomore year.
NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 02:50
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In my mind Batman is like 10-15 years older than Batgirl. Is this something I just made up? Like how the gently caress do the ages work that Babs is in the appropriate age group to sleep with both Dick and his figurative father without everyone throwing up?
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Jul 23, 2016 03:03
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It doesn't work. But if anyone wants to continue this discussion of the animated movie, they should probably move it over to the animation thread.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:09
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N52, which has the by-far youngest portrayal of Batman in relation to Batgirl, establishes his age as 30 and her, at the absolute oldest, working on a thesis for her graduate degree. Which would put her in her most generous age at 22, maaaaybe 24 if it's a post-graduate degree. But I would say she's somewhere between 21 and 22 considering her friend group and what she does in her free time. Barbara and Dick are roughly the same age. That being said the N52 timeline paralyzed her for two years from TKJ and then about a year of rehabilitation from the cybernetic enhancements, so figure she started being Batgirl at 17 and TKJ happened at 19. When Bruce was roughly 27. And that's the most generous interpretation one could give.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:10
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Toxxupation posted:her, at the absolute oldest, working on a thesis for her graduate degree. Which would put her in her most generous age at 22, maaaaybe 24 And here I am proud of the fact that I got into university after working through community college for five years. 
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Jul 23, 2016 03:34
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Teenage Fansub posted:Please don't put Jason Todd in the thread title. Tom Scioli is doing Super Powers backups in the Young Animal comics.  Also I saw Lightning Bolt like last year. They're awesome.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:38
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Ok finally read the three books I bought. Decided not to get Birds of Prey because the preview didn't catch me or Justice League because the first issue was bad and others here make the second sound worse. Hellblazer was ok story wise. The art was really uneven. Every other page looked like rear end. I really haven't had much exposure to this character besides six issues of JLDark and Keanu Reeves, but I'll stick with it for a few issues because I'm a sucker for the DC magic corner. Batman was a really good book. I'm glad I gave it another issue. The story was better and things actually happened. The art is still fantastic. I'm also very happy to see Psycho Pirate. He is a fun villian. Superman was really good again. The art while not Gleason was also very good. I like what is happening, but do hope Krypto is ok. We need the dog to appear more often too.
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Jul 23, 2016 04:49
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Lightning Lord posted:Tom Scioli is doing Super Powers backups in the Young Animal comics. Was just about to post that. It's so exciting! The Shade art looks fantastic. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/22/dcs-young-animal-panel-in-beautiful-pictures-as-seen-at-san-diego-comic-con/ 
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Jul 23, 2016 04:50
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Lightning Lord posted:Tom Scioli is doing Super Powers backups in the Young Animal comics. Is that an OSMAC - One Super Man Army Corps, and Virgin Mary Marvel?
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Jul 23, 2016 05:18
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