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Big Mean Jerk posted:I don't mind it, but it doesn't make much sense. What happens when you build a ship wider than the doors? Suddenly your huge gently caress-off spacedock isn't compatible with the newest ships. Then you just scale up the design and completely rebuild it. Or you hastily reedit old footage to make it seem like that.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:48
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WickedHate posted:Even combat focused, Trek uses space as a naval allegory. You don't have fighters for the same reason you don't have little one seater boats zooming around enemy battleships with machine guns lobbing grenades onto the deck. DS9 showed fighters in the large space battles, and reminder that the Akira-class is still a carrier-style spaceship even if it has more torpedo tubes and phaser arrays than a 4K tv has pixels.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:49
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Timby posted:To hell with the Excelsior, it's ugly. Timby posted:Ugh, I hate that giant space mushroom (much like I hate almost all of ILM's Trek designs). Sorry you hate all things Cool and Good. Are you a big Ent-E fan or something?
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Jul 24, 2016 19:50
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SourKraut posted:DS9 showed fighters in the large space battles, and reminder that the Akira-class is still a carrier-style spaceship even if it has more torpedo tubes and phaser arrays than a 4K tv has pixels. I think those fighters only make sense as an act of desperation. The Feds need every ship they can get, so they mobilize anything that can fly and carry a weapon.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:52
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internal spacedocks domt make any sense. If something happens, you've created a giant traffic jam as everyone scrambles for the door. The whole design is just to increase tension during the Stealing The Enterprise sequence,
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Jul 24, 2016 19:54
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Drone posted:Sorry you hate all things Cool and Good. Are you a big Ent-E fan or something? No, I want John Eaves to die in a fire. But ILM's Trek movie designs in general are terrible. Case in point: Nilo Rodis designed the Bird of Prey when the script called for the Romulans to be trying to get Genesis. Then it changed to Klingons. Did he alter the design, considering the Klingons never had any sort of avian imagery associated with them?  Nah.And, really, it's because Nimoy didn't give a poo poo about the look of the movie. He and Bennett literally had one pre-production meeting with ILM (primarily to discuss blowing up the Enterprise), and then they said, "OK, go do your thing." Big Mean Jerk posted:I don't mind it, but it doesn't make much sense. What happens when you build a ship wider than the doors? Suddenly your huge gently caress-off spacedock isn't compatible with the newest ships. The idiocy of the design is illustrated in the very next movie after it's introduced, when a giant space burrito shuts down Spacedock and seemingly most of Starfleet with some space dubstep. Timby fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 19:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:internal spacedocks domt make any sense. If something happens, you've created a giant traffic jam as everyone scrambles for the door. The whole design is just to increase tension during the Stealing The Enterprise sequence, In non-canon sperg stuff at least (or maybe even in the designer's notes, who knows), they could pressurize the inside of the mushroom to make it an actual dry dock. So it makes sense in that respect, at least.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:59
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Subyng posted:I think those fighters only make sense as an act of desperation. The Feds need every ship they can get, so they mobilize anything that can fly and carry a weapon. I mean, the Akira class carries 40 "fighters" specifically, so I think the Federation was starting to move in that direction. Which I liked a lot (but I also like Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica so I might just like fighters in my space battles).
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Jul 24, 2016 20:00
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I don't really mind the Discovery, while it would be awesome if it was some kind of Federation/Klingon joint project, I think they just refined the old Phase II design and it's just a coincidence. My first thought was the design (and registry) looks a generation ahead of TOS, aside from the deflector dish, which is pure movie era. But now the more I think about it I think somewhere around movie era probably does make more sense, both because of the design source and details like the dish and that little streak of blue along the nacelles. Looks like a transitory state between the solid nacelles of the TOS era and the blue-line nacelles of the Excelsior on.Otisburg posted:I'm bummed that in the new film The Enterprise A didnt take more design cues from its prime universe counterpart. SuperDucky posted:Jesus you loving nerds, I'm frankly shocked at all the love Beyond is getting. Especially because they tried to go to warp explicitly and immediately after the goddamn deflector had been destroyed. Subyng posted:I think those fighters only make sense as an act of desperation. The Feds need every ship they can get, so they mobilize anything that can fly and carry a weapon.
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Jul 24, 2016 20:08
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Presumably there's nothing to deflect in subspace (new fluidic warp effect aside). They would just jump somewhere else and chill out as they repaired the deflector so they could cruise outta there.Timby posted:And, really, it's because Nimoy didn't give a poo poo about the look of the movie. He and Bennett literally had one pre-production meeting with ILM (primarily to discuss blowing up the Enterprise), and then they said, "OK, go do your thing." FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 20:09
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Knormal posted:I don't really mind the Discovery... My first thought was the design (and registry) looks a generation ahead of TOS,... No, NCC-1031 isn't necessarily pre-TOS. The Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine" was NCC-1017, remember, and it was the same class as the Enterprise.
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Jul 24, 2016 20:13
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FilthyImp posted:I've heard a lot about Nimoy sucking as a director and causing a lot of stress with production staff. Any good stories about that? Well, Nimoy's flaws as a director are primarily in that he has no real sense of moving the camera, and his only real compositions are close-ups and two-shots. Beyond that, he didn't have much of a leash on Shatner and basically let him do his own thing. My other knock on him is that he just didn't care about the art and production design. Sure, ILM worked on Star Trek II, but it was under the art direction of Joe Jennings and Michael Minor, who were reporting to Bob Sallin. Nimoy and Bennett just decided to defer to ILM's design department, which is how we got monstrosities like Spacedock and the nonsensical Oberth class. Behind the scenes, he didn't have much of an issue with anyone on The Search for Spock (he would just get hammer-drunk during shooting breaks), but he and Harve Bennett clashed regularly on the set of The Voyage Home; Nimoy basically felt that after the success of III, he now had the clout to say, "No, gently caress you, Harve, we're doing it my way" -- which is why, for example, Leonard Rosenman was hired to write the score, as he was one of Nimoy's close friends. He basically verbally abused the poo poo out of Bennett throughout the shoot and in post-production, which is why Bennett took a ton of convincing to come back for The Final Frontier, as he was nervous about working with a first-time director again and didn't want a repeat of his experiences with Nimoy. Of course, he later said in an interview that he quickly realized that "Bill was easy to con," which made him feel more at ease about doing the movie. Edit: Nimoy and Meyer also clashed frequently during the making of The Undiscovered Country. Timby fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 20:18
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Drone posted:In non-canon sperg stuff at least (or maybe even in the designer's notes, who knows), they could pressurize the inside of the mushroom to make it an actual dry dock. So it makes sense in that respect, at least. I was wondering if that area was supposed to contain atmosphere or not, because that'd actually make for an almost absurdly safe work environment for drydock crews. No dangerous long falls since you're in a zero-g environment, but you also don't have to worry about a damaged suit losing pressurization or the possibility of accidentally walking between a pressurized and unpressurized compartment if you're doing internal work on a damaged ship.
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Jul 24, 2016 20:51
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Otisburg posted:Orbital Support makes sense, and has probably happened in some episodes. The only one I can think of was Kirk ordering a phaser strike on the Hippy Planet's Computer God tho.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:13
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Why the gently caress would a starship have a stun setting? What could you possibly use that for outside of this one specific case?
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Jul 24, 2016 21:23
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Because the Federation is a police state with ships in orbit constantly ready to taser anyone making trouble.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:27
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Why the gently caress would a starship have a stun setting? What could you possibly use that for outside of this one specific case? comes up more times than you think
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Jul 24, 2016 21:29
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Why the gently caress would a starship have a stun setting? What could you possibly use that for outside of this one specific case? In addition to variations on the reason why Kirk did it, you could also use it to disable people who have gone insane due to psionic attacks etc. and are not to blame for their actions, but are engaging in organized military stuff. (You could also use it for riot control, insert bleak police state filter here.) It would also be useful against dinosaurs etc. on the surface who might need some studying and/or are fixing to eat the crew, but which you don't want to risk destroying the crew to take down. Fine control over your death beams could also be useful for like, science and poo poo. Like those "phaser sweeps" they used to spot out dirty Changelings.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:32
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It sure would have saved Weyland-Yutani a lot of trouble in getting specimens.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:35
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Some kind of magical wide orbital stun beam would make ground warfare outside of shielded/armored vehicles literally impossible too.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:37
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You never know when you may have to stun a giant spaceborne organism. Or alter the phasers to perform a c-section on one.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:50
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Timby posted:Well, Nimoy's flaws as a director are primarily in that he has no real sense of moving the camera, and his only real compositions are close-ups and two-shots. Beyond that, he didn't have much of a leash on Shatner and basically let him do his own thing. My other knock on him is that he just didn't care about the art and production design. Sure, ILM worked on Star Trek II, but it was under the art direction of Joe Jennings and Michael Minor, who were reporting to Bob Sallin. Nimoy and Bennett just decided to defer to ILM's design department, which is how we got monstrosities like Spacedock and the nonsensical Oberth class. Is there a good book I can read about all of this? If not, can you expand on Nimoy and Meyer fighting?
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Jul 24, 2016 21:51
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If they do a movie era show I really hope they use the red uniforms because they are objectively the best uniforms in Star Trek. I've always liked the Phase II Enterprise design, my only beef was that the body was disproportionaly large. The Discovery's just right.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:11
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I'm hoping we don't just get another variant on the TOS uniforms.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:23
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I really like the Motion Picture uniforms, but they just don't work for Star Trek, which is practically defined by the bright red/yellow/blue color scheme.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:24
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Timby posted:Dramarama A few years ago he released a photobook of overweight models. He called in as a guest to KROQ's Kevin and Bean show (big mistake) and one of the hosts snuck in a question about wide-angle lenses. (cuz the ladies be fat). Nimoy's voice went from calm to WhatTheFuckDidYouSayMotherfucker soooo fast. Now I know.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:34
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Movie was good. I have a number of nerdo quibbles, but that's to be expected. I liked it way more than I thought I would. My one real gripe is that they once again created a totally unnecessary action sequence at the end with the gravity nexus chase scene. There were transporters all over the station, and likely other ships present as well. There was no need for Kirk to chase the maguffin down. Also, should have shot him instead of chatting. You have a stun setting. He is a terrorist with a bioweapon. Shoot him. Chat later. Generally, though, quite enjoyable. That one scene definitely did get me right there. I'll echo what has been said by at least one goon that the 3D wasn't very good and only really was pretty in the end credits sequence, but that was 99% generic Space Stuff. The series teaser is rear end quality, but I'm still excited because I am a doormat fanboy. Wasn't there some recent news about it being on Netflix too, or did I dream that?
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Jul 24, 2016 22:35
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FilthyImp posted:Jesus. Nimoy was kind of a dick. Is this online somewhere? I need to hear it
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Jul 24, 2016 22:38
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I saw Beyond today and I was surprised how much it didn't suck. I was on a high for Trek and then... God drat that Discovery trailer. They didn't want to kill fan films because of Axanar silliness - it's because fan films could easily look better than this cheap rubbish.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:39
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egon_beeblebrox posted:If not, can you expand on Nimoy and Meyer fighting? For background, Meyer and Nimoy hashed out the story at Meyer's beach house; Nimoy opened by asking Meyer, "How would you like to tell a story about the Wall coming down in space?" That sold Meyer, and they walked up and down the beach all day just breaking down the story beat-by-beat. They then went their separate ways, with Meyer intending to write the script with Denny Martin Flinn, his longtime friend who was dying of cancer. However, there was a massive power struggle going on at Paramount. Frank Mancuso, Paramount's president, had reached out to Nimoy to spearhead the movie after Gulf + Western chief Martin Davis raised the mother of all fits over Harve Bennett's plan to do the Starfleet Academy movie for the 25th anniversary. However, there were a couple of other Paramount executives -- Sid Ganis, who was the head of the movie studio, and his lieutenant, Teddy Zee -- who were actively campaigning to get Mancuso replaced, and so they brought out Lawrence Konner and Mark Rosenthal, the writers of noted cinematic classic Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, telling Nimoy and Meyer that they had this exciting young writing team and they would just love it if they would meet with them. Nimoy wanted no part of it because he immediately smelled studio politics, and Meyer was reticent because it was already starting to reek of what happened on Star Trek IV (he and Bennett lost WGA arbitration on IV and had to share script credit with Steve Meerson and Peter Krikes, the guys who wrote the Eddie Murphy draft that was tossed), but he decided he would meet with these two bobos as a courtesy. Here's where things started to get ugly. In their meeting, Meyer brought the entire, detailed outline that he and Nimoy had created that day on the beach, as well as some early script pages, and basically handed everything over to them. They came back a few weeks later and had literally plagiarized the entire thing (just changing the words, basically) and put their names on it. Though they were fired shortly thereafter, Nimoy was furious, later saying "I wanted to kill the son of a bitch (Meyer)," and it only got worse during post-production when he lost WGA arbitration and the credits were going to read "Story by Konner and Rosenthal, script by Meyer and Flinn." Nimoy hit the roof, called his lawyer and said that if it weren't resolved over the course of the weekend, he was personally going to sue the WGA, Paramount, Konner, Rosenthal and Meyer. At the eleventh hour they finally agreed on "Story by Nimoy, Konner and Rosenthal, script by Meyer and Flinn." There were also some arguments during filming. Nimoy was one of the people uncomfortable with some of the racially charged tones of the script (not to the extent that Nichols and Brock Peters were, but he was still bothered by it), and he fought tooth and nail against the mind-rape scene, which wasn't in the shooting script -- as written, after Valeris reveals the conspirators, Kirk asks where the peace conference is, there's a two-second beat and Spock calmly says she doesn't know and that they should contact Excelsior. Nimoy felt that there was no way Spock would violate his principles like that, but Meyer overruled him. Lots of little fights like that added up and much like how The Voyage Home wrecked Nimoy's relationship with Bennett, Undiscovered Country almost totally destroyed his friendship with Meyer. Wowbagger2004 posted:They didn't want to kill fan films because of Axanar silliness - it's because fan films could easily look better than this cheap rubbish. Axanar was actively profiting from selling Trek-branded merchandise and its producers were constantly going on social media proclaiming themselves to be the true heirs to the throne of Star Trek and that they would show that usurper JJ Abrams what's what. That's why CBS and Paramount sued the poo poo out of them: A first-year law student could explain how that's textbook tortious interference. And they're still letting Continues finish up its production run; the new guidelines very clearly say that they reserve the right to apply "selective enforcement" of the rules (translation: Talk to us first, and don't be a dick like the Axanar jackwagons, and we might look the other way). Timby fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 22:46
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WickedHate posted:Even combat focused, Trek uses space as a naval allegory. You don't have fighters for the same reason you don't have little one seater boats zooming around enemy battleships with machine guns lobbing grenades onto the deck. No, because that's dumb. You give them torpedoes or anti-ship missiles and, well, turns out that's a great idea.
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Jul 24, 2016 23:08
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Sash! posted:No, because that's dumb. Yeah but those didn't exist in the 18th century, which is what Star Trek combat has always been about (with a sprinkling of WW2 submarines)
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Jul 24, 2016 23:20
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Sash! posted:No, because that's dumb. Yeah, but you can shoot those same torpedoes and anti ship missiles with a bigger boat. space fighters have been discussed at length and the conclusion now that they don't work without some kind of arbitrary restriction. In the Gundam universe, they explain it by having spacecraft's power sources emit a kind of radiation that renders long range sensing devices useless, necessitating that combat move into visual range. Of course the rule of cool trumps all. Subyng fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 23:24
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egon_beeblebrox posted:Is this online somewhere? I need to hear it Skip to about 5:45. Now that I hear it again it's not quite as angry, especially because the other non-jackwad hosts paper it over as quickly as possible. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 23:38
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Allen_Aldo posted:Does this mean the new trek will be heavily 2001 inspired like TMP? If the ship's computer is an ultra-polite murderbot, that would definitely be a changeup. So, why didn't anyone tell me the Blu-Rays have the original TV trailers?! If I'd known I would be able to hear every "On the next... exciting episode of Staaaaaahrrr Trek: The Next Generation!" again, I would have bought these ages ago. I wanted to see something that would show off the restoration, so I threw in The Neutral Zone for the first Warbird appearance. Gave up on the stupid "thawed out 20th century humans" plot about fifteen minutes in - I'd forgotten how much they were still copying TOS even this late in the first season, with less formal dialogue and Picard throwing Kirk-style hissyfits. ("...on MY ship?!") The biggest thing I noticed was that they corrected just how dark the first season was - the lighting is a lot more consistent with the rest of the series. The downside is that it really shows off the higher-speed film, so it's pretty grainy. But that's what I get for picking a first season story! The Warbird de-cloaking and flying up was gorgeous, of course. And, while I remembered that the Romulan Captain was Marc Alaimo, I didn't realize how much he straight-up played it exactly the way he would play Gul Dukat, all the way down to the way he sat with his hands folded. Beautiful. Not having the BAH BAH DA DA DA DAAA Paramount music at the end of the closing credits was disappointing, though. 
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Jul 24, 2016 23:38
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Couple of things I liked in Star Trek Beyond: The part where Kirk wasn't flirting with every woman he met Sulu's line, "You kidding me, sir?", which came off significantly more cool than that speech he gave in STID which amounted to "I have weapons and will shoot you with them"
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Jul 24, 2016 23:43
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Drone posted:Kirk sure did take his loving time sounding abandon ship though. I have to admit I expected someone to scream WHAT SHIP!? at that point.
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Jul 25, 2016 00:07
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Fighters. http://i.imgur.com/Kqq4Pea.gifv
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Jul 25, 2016 00:14
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What was the episode of TNG where some species that had barely achieved space flight/warp drive and had been hitting the enterprise for several hours with laser weapons and doing basically nothing? Like they were down to 99% shields.
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Jul 25, 2016 00:23
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Nitrousoxide posted:What was the episode of TNG where some species that had barely achieved space flight/warp drive and had been hitting the enterprise for several hours with laser weapons and doing basically nothing? Like they were down to 99% shields. The Outrageous Okona, I think?
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Jul 25, 2016 00:27
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