Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

Microcline: Jul 27, 2012

Droyer posted:

As opposed to all the other gundam shows, where this doesn't happen.

To be fair, it's a problem most Gundam shows suffer from and even the good 2-season shows would be better if cut down to 26-episodes. The problem is exacerbated in IBO because in addition to being a particularly bad example it sells itself as being about undertrained, underequipped, undermanned child soldiers picking a fight with a solar empire.

I actually like how it cuts back the number of robot fights per episode because it means they could be written to have consequences. The most painful thing about IBO is how much potential it squanders.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 04:03

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# ? May 12, 2024 03:14

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Droyer posted:

Villains dying by the dozens to literal children is something that happens in every gundam show, so acting as though it's an issue with IBO specifically is disingenuous.

Yes, it happens it every show but the context is different. Mika has less trouble with his foes than the protagonists of Gundam 00 who are explicitly in godlike robots compared to their enemies. It's understandable some times but they lean on it all the way to the end of the show. Tekkadan is portrayed as child soldiers struggling with poor materials but they're almost always superior to their foes to a ridiculous degree.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 04:05

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Microcline posted:

It's pretty apparent we got 13 episodes of content in a 25-episode show. It sets up a number of great conflicts around what characters are willing to sacrifice for their ideals (would you make a deal with a devil? Would you allow someone you care about to die? Would you risk reintroducing total war on a scale that could annihilate planets?), but it ends with Orga/Kudelia getting to have their cake and eat it too.

My biggest disappointment of IBO S1 overall is how they did some really great setup around the way Orga had started to lead Tekkadan down after Biscuit's death being a hosed up and unhealthy road to go down with all of the reasonable mentor characters like the mechanic and Merribit gazing in horror at what Orga was starting to do and how maybe it wasn't a great idea to swear bloody vengeance and send your army of underequipped child soldiers to their deaths for the greater financial good(because that's literally what the people you murdered during your coup were doing to you), but then completely bailed out on that and had everything go perfectly swell and perfect for everyone involved(except all of those nameless dead kids that no one really mentions and Mika's disability).

ImpAtom posted:

Honestly?

Yes, in other Gundam series, the villains are extremely effective and dangerous. The protagonists struggle frequently and it's often implied they're surviving through the sheer superiority of their machines rather than the ineptitude of their enemies, at least until the pilots become more skilled.

In IBO there are multiple fights resolved when the villains literally decide to pose dramatically and then get owned in a comical-slash-horrible fashion. It's a problem with IBO not thematically (where it makes sense) but in that it devalues and weakens the would-be threatening antagonists because none of them can actually be a danger despite their many advantages.

Extremely effective and dangerous Gundam villains like Kakricon, who kills himself by attempting to attack an opponent during reentry while his only protection is a loving balloon, Mashmyre, who literally gets beaten at least once because he's busy sniffing a rose, Katejina's infamous Bikini Suicide Squadron, basically every opponent in G-Reco...

There's plenty of incidences of villains being incompetent and ineffective in Gundam. It's not a new thing. The Gjallarhorn dudes are incompetent and ineffective for literally the same reason the various factions in G-Reco are; they've literally forgotten how to fight a proper war. It makes perfect sense in the setting and there managed to be plenty of times where Tekkadan felt kind of hosed(the Graze Ein was absolutely brutal and incredibly effective at establishing itself as terrifying until they wussed out).

# ? Jul 25, 2016 04:16

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Kanos posted:

There's plenty of incidences of villains being incompetent and ineffective in Gundam. It's not a new thing.

There's a difference between incidences and literally every villain. The only time Mika meaningfully has trouble is against a Teiwaz pilot while the Barbatos is explicitly poorly configured so he can't pilot it well.

The problem I have with the G-Reco comparison is that I think it rings false. Gjallerhorn is powerful but also still dealing with issues. Carta Issue being poorly trained is sensible because she is in a ceremonial post but she's honestly not much different from the rest of Gjallerhorn and everyone in the setting. Tekkadan doesn't have meaningfully more danger from the Brewers despite them having their own Gundam and a number advantage with at least somewhat competent MSes. Teiwaz is given a handicap and Mika still fights it to a tie.

It's like G-Reco but rather than G-Reco's artificially forced peace it's a bunch of people being inept in a setting where they are regularly fighting anyway. I admit a big part of this is that the Brewers arc is my least favorite in the show and I think it isn't well executed at all. It should be the time that the Tekkadan are really flat-footed because here are other child soldiers who have been regularly fighting and have their own Gundam and instead they're clowned about as effortlessly.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jul 25, 2016

# ? Jul 25, 2016 04:19

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Nobody in the setting is really experienced in mobile suit combat, not even people like the Mars Gjallarhorn guys who periodically actually see combat due to Mars being a shithole. Mobile suits are rare and open conflict between them is likely even moreso. Gjallarhorn's effective military experience across the entire organization boils down to deploying mobile workers and infantry to crush protestors and dissidents; if the dissidents show any form of resistance, they deploy a couple of mobile suits who effortlessly crush any opposition. The Dort massacre was a pretty good example of what a normal conflict looks like in this setting and it's not a conflict that requires particular skill at mobile suit combat.

As far as relative capabilities go, Mika is piloting a Gundam and has a vanishingly rare three spine AV link. He can effectively move the suit he's piloting like it's his own body; he's effectively starting the series where Amuro ended up at the end of 0079 where he was blowing through a dozen suits at a time effortlessly. He doesn't need to think about what movement patterns to use or how to get his suit's weapons into play in time because he basically just thinks and the suit does it. We get a glimpse of what an advantage an upgraded AV link is for a pilot when that one spine dude tries to simply activate the Barbatos and seizures out immediately, and how the Full AV Graze Ein was able to murderize everyone it met until it ran into Mika. Hell, even two spine Akihiro clowns on basically everyone he ever fights.

The Brewers had a lot of mobile suits, but they were being piloted by disorganized child soldiers(Tekkadan are ORGANIZED child soldiers) with no plan or coherent command structure beyond the Gusion pilot screaming "be my shields or I'll beat/starve/kill you when we get back". The moment they lose the advantage, they basically fall apart and start moving/attacking individually at random. Teiwaz and Tekkadan attacked them with a coherent plan and more organized/motivated pilots who worked better in tandem, and then it was basically down to Mika(who we've established has the ridiculous advantage of his AV system) against the Gusion(which is piloted by a guy who doesn't even have an AV hookup).

# ? Jul 25, 2016 05:01

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Kanos posted:

Nobody in the setting is really experienced in mobile suit combat, not even people like the Mars Gjallarhorn guys who periodically actually see combat due to Mars being a shithole. Mobile suits are rare and open conflict between them is likely even moreso. Gjallarhorn's effective military experience across the entire organization boils down to deploying mobile workers and infantry to crush protestors and dissidents; if the dissidents show any form of resistance, they deploy a couple of mobile suits who effortlessly crush any opposition. The Dort massacre was a pretty good example of what a normal conflict looks like in this setting and it's not a conflict that requires particular skill at mobile suit combat.

As far as relative capabilities go, Mika is piloting a Gundam and has a vanishingly rare three spine AV link. He can effectively move the suit he's piloting like it's his own body; he's effectively starting the series where Amuro ended up at the end of 0079 where he was blowing through a dozen suits at a time effortlessly. He doesn't need to think about what movement patterns to use or how to get his suit's weapons into play in time because he basically just thinks and the suit does it. We get a glimpse of what an advantage an upgraded AV link is for a pilot when that one spine dude tries to simply activate the Barbatos and seizures out immediately, and how the Full AV Graze Ein was able to murderize everyone it met until it ran into Mika. Hell, even two spine Akihiro clowns on basically everyone he ever fights.

The Brewers had a lot of mobile suits, but they were being piloted by disorganized child soldiers(Tekkadan are ORGANIZED child soldiers) with no plan or coherent command structure beyond the Gusion pilot screaming "be my shields or I'll beat/starve/kill you when we get back". The moment they lose the advantage, they basically fall apart and start moving/attacking individually at random. Teiwaz and Tekkadan attacked them with a coherent plan and more organized/motivated pilots who worked better in tandem, and then it was basically down to Mika(who we've established has the ridiculous advantage of his AV system) against the Gusion(which is piloted by a guy who doesn't even have an AV hookup).

I know why Mika is the best pilot. That doesn't make it satisfying, especially when the villains don't play by those rules. Ein defeats enemies but fails to kill anyone, something almost unheard of in the setting. Knowing the out of universe reason why (whoops, we got a second season, can't kill these marketable characters off too soon) doesn't change the fact. Even Carta Issue played by the rule of 'combat is horrifying and brutal' both for and against.

The show continued to put Tekkadan up against enemies who just had no chance against them in any shape. This isn't even something G-Reco did where an ongoing theme was enemies having powerful terrifying weapons they had little idea how to properly use. I get the thematic idea behind Gjallerhorn being locked into old ways and I do think it worked well during both of the duels. I think outside of that though they did a poor job making it feel earned, especially when they play it for jokes.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 05:40

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

The flaw in using g reco as a counterpoint to criticisms of IBO is that g reco is a show where the vast majority of characters coming off like enthusiastic toddlers with high powered weaponry was explicitly the point, whereas IBO tries to present itself as a serious dramatic piece but undercuts itself with a parade of incongruous Saturday morning cartoon villains.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 05:45

Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

I didn't have an issue with how IO handled its villains. For the most part the danger came not from the military branch of Gjallarhorn as they had been gone a couple centuries without a proper conflict meaning that the organization had lost the most important thing a sense of drive to improve itself. For all I hated Ein it is rather telling that he was the only pilot in the show who seemed to improve due to skill reasons as he needed to avenge his mentor and thus was willing to improve. The show created some issues y suddenly leaving itself open enough for the sequel, however it should mean that the battles will be that much more fierce as the foe will not be the status quo which led to the unification of a corrupt businessman, the Mafia, Chocolate man and Tekkadan in order to topple it, but a bloody free for all as everybody tries to determine just how the world will change.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 06:51

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Something of note is the new Graze's in Season 2 are a lot chunkier with extra armor. Looks like they're actually geared up for proper mobile suit combat instead of being equipped for looking photogenic and stepping on upstarts.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 07:02

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

The latest Crossbone uses its V-fin as a drill.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 07:41

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

ImpAtom posted:

I know why Mika is the best pilot. That doesn't make it satisfying, especially when the villains don't play by those rules. Ein defeats enemies but fails to kill anyone, something almost unheard of in the setting. Knowing the out of universe reason why (whoops, we got a second season, can't kill these marketable characters off too soon) doesn't change the fact. Even Carta Issue played by the rule of 'combat is horrifying and brutal' both for and against.

The show continued to put Tekkadan up against enemies who just had no chance against them in any shape. This isn't even something G-Reco did where an ongoing theme was enemies having powerful terrifying weapons they had little idea how to properly use. I get the thematic idea behind Gjallerhorn being locked into old ways and I do think it worked well during both of the duels. I think outside of that though they did a poor job making it feel earned, especially when they play it for jokes.

I'm not going to argue about Ein being completely wasted, because I agree that he was. The appearance of the Graze Ein was done really well, at least.

Most of Tekkadan actually has a pretty bloodied combat record and they took a ton of damage. Akihiro and Mika aside, Shino basically turned into the team jobber/screwup once he hopped into a mobile suit and the rest of the Tekkadan suffered pretty heavy casualties between the Brewers ship boarding, the attack on the island, and the siege of Edmonton. It was even a big dramatic tension point that Orga was ordering tons and tons of Tekkadan members to their deaths to try to break through the siege line...until the show's ending entirely forgot to acknowledge it.

mr. stefan posted:

The flaw in using g reco as a counterpoint to criticisms of IBO is that g reco is a show where the vast majority of characters coming off like enthusiastic toddlers with high powered weaponry was explicitly the point, whereas IBO tries to present itself as a serious dramatic piece but undercuts itself with a parade of incongruous Saturday morning cartoon villains.

I can be reasonably confident that a show that is all about class conflict making a conscious decision to portray basically every character who opposes the existing status quo as competent and pretty much every character who supports the status quo as incompetent is making a conscious statement rather than undercutting itself. Note that the only three Gjallarhorn mobile suit pilots who are ever portrayed as seriously competent and/or dangerous on any level are the three directly opposed to the status quo for varying reasons: Ein(half-breed outsider who will never be accepted, willing to violate societal taboos for the sake of vengeance), Gaelio(believes that current status quo is corrupt and needs to be reformed), and McGillis(believes that the current status quo is corrupt and needs to be eradicated root and branch).

# ? Jul 25, 2016 08:01

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Kanos posted:

I can be reasonably confident that a show that is all about class conflict making a conscious decision to portray basically every character who opposes the existing status quo as competent and pretty much every character who supports the status quo as incompetent is making a conscious statement rather than undercutting itself. Note that the only three Gjallarhorn mobile suit pilots who are ever portrayed as seriously competent and/or dangerous on any level are the three directly opposed to the status quo for varying reasons: Ein(half-breed outsider who will never be accepted, willing to violate societal taboos for the sake of vengeance), Gaelio(believes that current status quo is corrupt and needs to be reformed), and McGillis(believes that the current status quo is corrupt and needs to be eradicated root and branch).

Heck, even Carta, the screwup who at least managed to bloody Tekkadan's nose and get out alive (until she was dumb enough to try for round three), has a position that's expressly outside the system, both because her little fleet is exempt from a number of regulations, and because she's shown to be one of the very few members of Gjallarhorn who's actually in things to protect the Earth sphere instead of lining her own pockets.

I'm going to join the chorus saying the last episode (although I didn't hate it) clearly lost a lot of payoff in favor of leaving things around for season 2, but IBO did a lot right, and clearly had some thought put into how its themes played out.

(Another thing I like that hasn't really been brought up? Although Mika's pretty high up there as a pilot in the series, his unique advantage isn't that unique. About one person out of five could survive getting three whiskers, given the failure rates mentioned in the show. The thing about Mika isn't that he's got the one-in-a-million genes to pilot better than anyone else. He was just more willing to bet his life than anyone else. Or at least, anyone else who survived. It makes his advantage a logical extension of his virtues and flaws, rather than just something handed down because he's the lead, and the lead should be the best pilot.)

# ? Jul 25, 2016 08:47

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Kanos posted:

I'm not going to argue about Ein being completely wasted, because I agree that he was. The appearance of the Graze Ein was done really well, at least.

Most of Tekkadan actually has a pretty bloodied combat record and they took a ton of damage. Akihiro and Mika aside, Shino basically turned into the team jobber/screwup once he hopped into a mobile suit and the rest of the Tekkadan suffered pretty heavy casualties between the Brewers ship boarding, the attack on the island, and the siege of Edmonton. It was even a big dramatic tension point that Orga was ordering tons and tons of Tekkadan members to their deaths to try to break through the siege line...until the show's ending entirely forgot to acknowledge it.

I can be reasonably confident that a show that is all about class conflict making a conscious decision to portray basically every character who opposes the existing status quo as competent and pretty much every character who supports the status quo as incompetent is making a conscious statement rather than undercutting itself. Note that the only three Gjallarhorn mobile suit pilots who are ever portrayed as seriously competent and/or dangerous on any level are the three directly opposed to the status quo for varying reasons: Ein(half-breed outsider who will never be accepted, willing to violate societal taboos for the sake of vengeance), Gaelio(believes that current status quo is corrupt and needs to be reformed), and McGillis(believes that the current status quo is corrupt and needs to be eradicated root and branch).

Well, there was Crank, too, who genuinely gave Mika one of his toughest fights.

On the new suits, I don't think Tekkadan bought them. They're Teiwaz designs, based on the Hyakuren frame. We know from the end of the first season that the Jovian mafia is gearing up in a big way to exploit Gjallarhorn's newfound vulnerability, and part of that probably involves buying, looting, or stealing every Ahab reactor they can get their hands on. As their newest and most promising subsidiary, Tekkadan presumably got a bunch of new Hyakuren frames for testing.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 08:56

ACES CURE PLANES: Oct 21, 2010

https://twitter.com/zigharii/status/757493131541491712

No Zechs no buy :colbert:

# ? Jul 25, 2016 15:13

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Kanos posted:

I'm not going to argue about Ein being completely wasted, because I agree that he was. The appearance of the Graze Ein was done really well, at least.

Most of Tekkadan actually has a pretty bloodied combat record and they took a ton of damage. Akihiro and Mika aside, Shino basically turned into the team jobber/screwup once he hopped into a mobile suit and the rest of the Tekkadan suffered pretty heavy casualties between the Brewers ship boarding, the attack on the island, and the siege of Edmonton. It was even a big dramatic tension point that Orga was ordering tons and tons of Tekkadan members to their deaths to try to break through the siege line...until the show's ending entirely forgot to acknowledge it.

I admit that I'm just not willing to go "Oh, well, the show undercut its themes but it was because of the second season where I'm sure it will pay off" until at least I've seen the second season, but I still remember having similar concerns about Gundam 00 S2 and 00S2 was... well, 00S2.

it isn't that I don't think the authors are capable (the final battle was a hair's breath away from being satisfying thematically) but that I'm not sure they'll be allowed. "We have to save these characters for Season 2" probably is more of a marketing decision than a writing decision which isn't a great start. My high hope (and I'd be thrilled if this is shattered) is that it will be like Geass S2 where they pad a bunch of stuff in to reach what was probably their intended ending.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 15:39

Koirhor: Jan 14, 2008; by Fluffdaddy

Just got around to watching Thunderbolt, I liked it quite a bit, shame we can't get a series like that. I did enjoy Iron Blooded Orphans far more than I thought I would.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 16:18

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I cannot imagine anyone wanting a season 2 to start out anything like code geass r2.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 16:24

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Arcsquad12 posted:

I cannot imagine anyone wanting a season 2 to start out anything like code geass r2.

I absolutely don't. Cynicism is the reason that is my highest hope, not optimism.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 16:35

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

ImpAtom posted:

I absolutely don't. Cynicism is the reason that is my highest hope, not optimism.

The bleakness of your outlook suits the thread.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 16:57

AradoBalanga: Jan 3, 2013

ACES CURE PLANES posted:

https://twitter.com/zigharii/status/757493131541491712

No Zechs no buy

I am still trying to comprehend Quattro's posing. What exactly is it supposed to be?

# ? Jul 26, 2016 00:42

Spelling Mitsake: Oct 4, 2007; Clutch Cargo wishes they had Tractor.

Arcsquad12 posted:

I cannot imagine anyone wanting a season 2 to start out anything like code geass r2.

Not start, end.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 04:14

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Spelling Mitsake posted:

Not start, end.

Ehh, I wouldn't even take that. R2 is pretty terrible all around for me. The first season was stupid, yes, but it was compelling in it's own way. The second season just took a nosedive off the moron cliff.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 05:11

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Arcsquad12 posted:

Ehh, I wouldn't even take that. R2 is pretty terrible all around for me. The first season was stupid, yes, but it was compelling in it's own way. The second season just took a nosedive off the moron cliff.

R2 had a lot against it, but the epilogue with Emperor Lelouch orchestrating his own public assassination wasn't one of them.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 05:19

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

So I'm watching the MSG movie trilogy. Really, apart from being a completionist and enjoying some of the slightly tweaked visuals, I think I'd stick with the TV series. Because it really is just an abbreviated version of the show, so there isn't really an overarching plot throughout the films. If you don't have time on your hands for the full series, it's fine, but the structure and pacing just aren't really meant for a film format. On the positive side, however, I will say that they really manage to refine the tone for the films into something much more desperate feeling than the TV series. By shedding a lot of the jankier animation and kitschy moments, the films are a lot darker and stressful on the crew. There really is no respite for them.

But I'll still prefer the series proper, or ideally, a full continuation of the Origin OVAs covering the main series.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 06:31

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

AradoBalanga posted:

I am still trying to comprehend Quattro's posing. What exactly is it supposed to be?

He stepped on a tiny Gundam model kit piece and is trying his best not scream or fall over. You pick the piece!

# ? Jul 26, 2016 23:06

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

So what are the new - as in, within the last year or two - Gundam series available with dubs from RightStuff? The Origin, right? What about this Thunderbolt series or Iron-Blooded Orphans? I feel like 'm slacking in my Gundam fandom since I've watched nothing new since my marathon back in 2014.

Although for the older series, I still don't understand why they haven't released Gundam Wing blu-rays over here. You would have thought it be the first thing. Well, I would have thought that but still nothing.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 00:19

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

So what are the new - as in, within the last year or two - Gundam series available with dubs from RightStuff? The Origin, right? What about this Thunderbolt series or Iron-Blooded Orphans? I feel like 'm slacking in my Gundam fandom since I've watched nothing new since my marathon back in 2014.

Although for the older series, I still don't understand why they haven't released Gundam Wing blu-rays over here. You would have thought it be the first thing. Well, I would have thought that but still nothing.

Iron Blooded Orphans got a dub that I believe aired on TV.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 00:20

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

IBO is indeed currently airing on Toonami.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 00:26

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

I think Build Fighters has one of those cheapo made-for-overseas dubs on it DVD set too?

# ? Jul 27, 2016 00:40

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

The Phillipines dubbing like the one for ZZ?

# ? Jul 27, 2016 00:43

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Ohmygod, they still exist, this is great news.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 03:05

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Do we know what Char did immediately after Zeta? Like, did anything else happen to him to make him want to drop a big rock on Earth? Did he had a struggle of conscience where his pessimism finally overwhelmed him?

A PS1 Gundam video game said he took Mineva to safety but I don't know if that's canon. Probably not.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 01:11

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

Do we know what Char did immediately after Zeta? Like, did anything else happen to him to make him want to drop a big rock on Earth? Did he had a struggle of conscience where his pessimism finally overwhelmed him?

A PS1 Gundam video game said he took Mineva to safety but I don't know if that's canon. Probably not.

ZZ and the Zeta movies reveal that Haman, apparently feeling super guilty after Char called her out, smuggled Mineva to Earth so that she could live a quiet, normal life and replaced her with a series of (presumably well-treated) body doubles.

We don't know much, if anything, about Char between Zeta and CCA, which is one of the big reasons why his character is a subject of such intense discussion thirty years on.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 01:18

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

He probably grew even more bitter and jaded because the events of Zeta changed absolutely nothing about the Federation or Earth's attitude to spacenoids in the long run, and then the fact that he's utterly loving insane came back with a vengeance and he concluded that the solution was dropping an asteroid on the planet.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 01:24

EthanSteele: Nov 18, 2007; I can hear you

Zeta/ZZ spoilers just in case!!

I don't think he found out about Kamille's recovery either so as far as he was concerned his ultra Newtype wunderkind that was going to lead the way for humanity had ended up as just more meat for the death machine that is the Federation. That probably helped push him towards despair or whatever made him go "gently caress this" because Char is an extreme dude.

EthanSteele fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 28, 2016

# ? Jul 28, 2016 03:02

AradoBalanga: Jan 3, 2013

Darth Walrus posted:

We don't know much, if anything, about Char between Zeta and CCA, which is one of the big reasons why his character is a subject of such intense discussion thirty years on.

You'd think by this point, with all the attention early to mid Universal Century Gundam gets, there'd be a manga or a light novel that explains what Char was doing from 0088 to 0093. But strangely Sunrise hasn't opted to go that route yet.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 05:25

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

Arcsquad12 posted:

So I'm watching the MSG movie trilogy. Really, apart from being a completionist and enjoying some of the slightly tweaked visuals, I think I'd stick with the TV series. Because it really is just an abbreviated version of the show, so there isn't really an overarching plot throughout the films. If you don't have time on your hands for the full series, it's fine, but the structure and pacing just aren't really meant for a film format. On the positive side, however, I will say that they really manage to refine the tone for the films into something much more desperate feeling than the TV series. By shedding a lot of the jankier animation and kitschy moments, the films are a lot darker and stressful on the crew. There really is no respite for them.

But I'll still prefer the series proper, or ideally, a full continuation of the Origin OVAs covering the main series.

I disagree because I think the movies do good job eliminating some of the bad parts of the original series. I did not miss most of the stuff that they cut. It allows for a more tightly focused story.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 15:18

BizarroAzrael: Apr 6, 2006; "That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Has a date been set for the next batch of Gundam Breaker 3 DLC? I'd really like to muck around with Kimaris and AGE-FX parts.

Is there somewhere I can read more about the relative success or otherwise of various Gundam shows, I guess in terms of viewership and merch pushed? I thought it was fairly interesting that Gundam Breaker 3 has I think six AGE Gundams (some parts get reused) and the Gafran from a show widely held here as a failure, whilst G-Reco only had the G-Self. I would have thought they'd at least get the G-Arcane in too. I know that saves carry over, so AGE may have just come out before one of the previous games and now the Gunpla can't be removed from new games.

Maybe it's just arbitrary/the whims of the developers, since a bunch of "sets" are incomplete, since a bunch of the 00 and Wing protagonist team suits are missing.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 15:27

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Monaghan posted:

I disagree because I think the movies do good job eliminating some of the bad parts of the original series. I did not miss most of the stuff that they cut. It allows for a more tightly focused story.

The main problem I have with the films is that it does not flow like a film should, but rather like an abbreviated television season. The advantage something like Origin has over the compilation films is that the Origin OVAs are structured to tell a story in one hour. But the MSG movie trilogy doesn't do anything to rearrange scenes and improve the flow. The first film begins with the Side 7 fight and ends with Ramba Ral kicking the Gundam's rear end, when I felt it could have ended a half hour earlier at Garma's death and just moved Gihren's funeral speech forward. You could have kept Ramba Ral's introduction for the start of the second film, rather than have it crash any conclusion the first film might have had otherwise.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 15:29

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# ? May 12, 2024 03:14

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Finished Unicorn Episode 6, just about to start 7. Not much to say about this one except that the plot was pretty bare bones. I guess it was all about setup for the finale, but I'm left with the impression that episode 7 will be kind of a rush to wrap everything up instead of fully exploring the show's conflicts. As for Episode 6, on the character front, it was nice to have the dialogue between Marida and Zinnerman, and we finally get to figure out what Full Frontal's plan actually is. And it's not very smart, as Mineva points out. Full Frontal's plan of economic starvation for Earth is basically Napoleon's Continental System sanctions against Great Britain during the Napoleonic Wars. And it didn't work then, it won't work now. The only thing that could hold Full Frontal's Side Co-Prosperity system together would be military power, which they only have so long as they play nice with Anaheim Electronics, who double deal to both Zeon Remnants and the Federation all the time. Plus, the Federation has their own production capabilities that vastly outstrip the Zeon, who rely on super prototypes over efficient workhorses, Geara and Zaku series excepted.

Full Frontal's plan is a pipe dream that he seems to have deluded himself into thinking will work, but he does not have the military firepower to take on the Federation in a full scale war. On that topic, this Neo Zeon conflict is incredibly small scale for something considered to be so important. More people died during the Remnants attack on Dakar and Torrington (40000 civilian casualties, I think?) than in military combat. The death toll of one city outnumbers the entirety of the war's military casualties.

It was a shame Riddhe didn't get more to do this episode, and he seems to have just gone evil. I get it after last episode he kind of snapped, but I'd have liked to see that explored more instead of just an immediate transition to "Die Gundam Die."

And that's about it. So much not happening in this episode. What does happen is intriguing, but it is so slowly paced I was getting kind of bored. I'll probably go and finish the series tonight, so I'll see whether the show lives up to its lofty goals.

# ? Jul 29, 2016 23:52

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

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