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Tesseraction posted:Pretty much that it only works in a two-party system and often ends up leading to insurgent candidates on the extremes to become appealing way moreso than if there wasn't political convergence. Should that 'something something' be 'it isn't working for'? edit: The Kursk submarine disaster that caused the sinking of the Oscar-class submarine (Russian: Project 949A Антей) Kursk took place during the first major Russian naval exercise in more than 10 years, in the Barents Sea on Saturday, 12 August 2000, killing all 118 personnel on board.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:35
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Blairism wasn't the litany of evil people today paint it out to be. Off the top of my head, some good policies included: Introducing the minimum wage at a time when there was literally no minimum and nothing to stop employers paying people £1 an hour Putting more money into schools to reduce class sizes and increase teachers' pay Scrapping laws which openly, proudly discriminated against LGB people and instead introducing laws protecting them from discrimination (yes LGB - politicians hadn't really discovered the other letters yet) Raising taxes (national insurance) to put more money into the NHS Expanding post-16 education and training. Simply leaving education at 16 was still the norm previously. Introducing EMAs Introducing Sure Start Reducing poverty by giving poor people money (ie tax credits) paid for by taxing people who had a bit more money Some of these policies actually succeeded in moving the fabled Overton window, eg the Tories now love the minimum wage and gay rights which they bitterly opposed when Blair's government championed them. I'm not denying there was a lot of terrible stuff too but if we had a government which did whatever the 2016 equivalent of the above stuff is then I think Britain would become less unpleasant for many people.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:35
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Baron Corbyn posted:I guarantee that Corbyn will come out of this looking better than the rest of the Labour Party in the public's eyes. This is much like guaranteeing that the public will vote to remain in the EU.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:36
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Pissflaps posted:Should that 'something something' be 'it isn't working for'? I'd say UKIP have done pretty successfully in their goal of having us leave the European Union.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:44
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Tesseraction posted:I'd say UKIP have done pretty successfully in their goal of having us leave the European Union. They have but it's worth remembering that UKIP's Brexit message has hit home with voters across the political spectrum so that's maybe not such a good example.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:52
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Tesseraction posted:I'd say UKIP have done pretty successfully in their goal of having us leave the European Union. UKIP are very much a symptom, not a cause, of what's got us to this point. 40 years of lazy politicians blaming everything from factory closures to traffic jams on YERP! because it was a convenient bogeyman and fed the national ego got us to this situation, UKIP simply tapped into that.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:53
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On their own merits UKIP are a very successful political party. Interestingly they've accomplished their goal with only a single MP. You could argue that they're not directly comparable to Tories/Labour/Lib Dems because they're a single-issue party but they've helped to take leaving the EU from fringe opinion held by fruitcakes in the late 1990s to political reality today and most of the time they didn't have any MPs at all.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:01
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Paxman posted:Blairism wasn't the litany of evil people today paint it out to be. Off the top of my head, some good policies included: Is anyone actually claiming Blair was 100% terrible? Of course the first Labour government in almost 2 decades did some good things. I've never received less than minimum wage in my life because I didn't enter the workforce until 2003, and for that I'm grateful. But at the same point, the first half of his time in office came at a point where I was more concerned with doing well in Higher Chemistry than the day-to-day of politics in the UK. When I read a newspaper, it was almost exclusively the back pages. They may have moved the Overton window left on some things but they sure as hosed moved it right on a lot of others. By continually chasing the centre ground they only helped in moving it to the right. And yet they still chase the centre.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:01
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So I gather Michael Foster's High Court case against the NEC re Corbyn being on the Labour leadership ballot is today. Could be interesting... Foster, by the way, while contending Camborne and Redruth seat in Cornwall, was in a hustings when Loveday Jenkin, of the Mebyon Kernow party made a crack about Foster's £1.5m house in the poorest constituency in England. He became furious, called her a oval office and said "If you pick on me again. I will destroy you." Bit of a twat. Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 10:02
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Jose posted:i think its that it gives depressed people the energy they previously didn't have to go and kill themselves in the few weeks before it starts fixing the brain chemistry that helps get rid of depression or at least thats what i read somewhere From the marketing materials, it was a replacement for all of that hippy crap and you just gave them pills and sent them home. And doctors did just that, for everything from 'low mood' to clinical depression. Which worked poorly. goddamnedtwisto posted:I know a lot of people ITT are either too young to remember pre-2001 Blair or have had their memories tainted by his subsequent actions but he genuinely was a breath of fresh air compared to the politicians around him, and that was a big part of his personal appeal, and that - not his policies, which were an amorphous blob of "not-Tory" - was what drew a lot of people to him.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:03
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Seems the High Court is today considering whether Jeremy Corbyn should be kicked out of the leadership contest after all e: beaten to it
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Jul 26, 2016 10:04
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Baron Corbyn posted:It's really bizarre considering they try to model themselves on the Democrats where playing to base during the primaries before pivoting to the centre for the general is very common. This seemed like a fairly succinct (if not entirely fair) take on Smith's so far uninspiring approach: https://twitter.com/shirkerism/status/757855541028790273
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Jul 26, 2016 10:05
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forkboy84 posted:a point where I was more concerned with doing well in Higher Chemistry  or  ?
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Jul 26, 2016 10:05
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Pissflaps posted:They have but it's worth remembering that UKIP's Brexit message has hit home with voters across the political spectrum so that's maybe not such a good example. Except it is. Hard centrism leads to people looking in any direction possible for something different. goddamnedtwisto posted:UKIP are very much a symptom, not a cause, of what's got us to this point. 40 years of lazy politicians blaming everything from factory closures to traffic jams on YERP! because it was a convenient bogeyman and fed the national ego got us to this situation, UKIP simply tapped into that. Oh I know, that's why I'm saying that political convergence of the major parties is what allowed a group like them to say "hey, they keep blaming Europe but doing nothing about it. We're different." and people flock to them even though they're just pushing Tory policies in a purple wrapper.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:06
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I love every expression in this photo
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Jul 26, 2016 10:15
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"Please clap."
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Jul 26, 2016 10:16
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Paxman posted:Seems the High Court is today considering whether Jeremy Corbyn should be kicked out of the leadership contest after all Unless he comes out with something pretty funky like Corbyn blackmailed members of the NEC to rig the vote on the ruling his case hasn't a leg to stand on. The party rules are he party rules and the committee has clearly acted within its powers.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:19
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Strong message here.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:19
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I love every expression in this photo I love how this makes Owen Smith look like he's got normal sizes legs and a teeny weeny torso.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:21
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Human Rights Act, Scottish and regional devolution, an actual and substantive commitment to multiculturalism and internationalism in policy (if not in rhetoric), etc the minimum wage of Blair was instructive - it substituted wage bargaining obtained via mobilizing in civil-social groups empowered with quasi-sovereign powers obtained in extra-parliamentary struggle, with instead the minimum wage conceived as an intrinsic individual right and hence universal to all individuals, enforced via codified process in the state. This elegantly demonstrates what is liberal about neoliberalism. But as you can see with the HRA and so forth, the ideological commitment to individual rights to codified process goes deeper. Also, vaguely base-broadened redistribution. We are not really any less 'neoliberal' in the age of Corbyn, in that respect; Kippers are obviously a far deeper challenge to individualist universalism. The challenge with contemporary left-wing populism, rather, is that whilst the commitments to the rights-and-process achievements of neoliberalism are usually not challenged, nobody really knows how these movements will eventually square the assorted circles. If the answer is "incrementally higher taxes", well, if the pages of the FT are to be believed, there is less opposition and more resigned reconciliation than one might think. But does such a mandate actually exist? Someone who can talk a big show at the rallies eventually has to confront the tricky problem that the upper-middle class is where the revenue is; the fabled 0.1% is too mobile and most states are already close to revenue-maximizing rates. But when you go to pluck feathers off the upper-middle goose, well, it's surprising just how easily angers over injustice and insult can fade when it would otherwise appear in your monthly cheque. Remember, people once bombed each other over this, not very long ago:  It turns out we can quantify exactly how deep the fabled nationalism and political principles of the bourgeois class actually goes. It doesn't go very deep. For the populist right, well, they let all these demons out of the bottle in order to significantly lower immigration, and then it turns out that they don't really have a mandate to lower immigration. They only have a mandate to lower all the kinds of immigration which don't really exist - the kinds which are not the pliable, obedient productive English-speaking high-income tax-payers that everyone likes, and yet are also not those who the immediate and logical result of family reunification or human rights commitments. Always someone else's immigrants, so to speak. At that point they pull a BoJo. But the demons are already out of the bottle. For the populist left...?
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Jul 26, 2016 10:23
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Corbyn counted as 'anr' https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/757862693848158208 also UNROBED FOR HEARING
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Jul 26, 2016 10:25
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Guavanaut posted:
sadly. 14 years later & I remember almost nothing about organic chemistry or covalent bonds.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:26
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Tesseraction posted:Corbyn counted as 'anr' That is entirely standard listing procedure.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:29
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Also, today, those noted institutions of alt-globalization such as the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank, and the OECD issued its report to the G20 on base erosion and profit shifting.quote:The report arrives at a number of recommendations for measures to strengthen or achieve those enablers. These are summarized in Appendix 4. The primary ones include: (i) options through which the G20, IOs and other development partners can encourage political support for tax systems development; (ii) the development of country-owned medium-term revenue strategies, or tax reform plans depending on country circumstances; (iii) support to non-government stakeholders; (iv) support by development partners to increase managerial, as well as technical, skills in taxation agencies; (v) various approaches to developing better coordination and collaboration among providers, and avoidance of fragmented support and approaches; (vi) intensification of work by PCT partners and others to produce comparable and reliable data; (vii) increased partnerships and support for regional tax organizations; and (viii) support to developing countries to facilitate meaningful participation in international tax policy discussions and institutions. ahhh don't you love the language of international relations. With your assistance, comrade, we can put together MTRSs!
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Jul 26, 2016 10:30
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forkboy84 posted:
And when we're collapsing on the floor unable to execute the Krebs cycle or flying apart into our constituent atoms, some Sun journalist will still be writing in boiling ink on rapidly decomposing paper about how it's a good thing if it prevents just one terrorist attack.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:38
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Tesseraction posted:Oh I know, that's why I'm saying that political convergence of the major parties is what allowed a group like them to say "hey, they keep blaming Europe but doing nothing about it. We're different." and people flock to them even though they're just pushing Tory policies in a purple wrapper. There is a very good book on that convergence, the decline in public engagement with political parties and their potential end game by Peter Mair - Ruling the Void. I think he would see Corbyn as a natural adjustment if democracy is to survive in its current format. Sure it has been recommended before but well worth a read. Peter Mair posted:For today even semi-sovereignty appears to be slipping away, and the citizenry are becoming effectively non-sovereign. What we see emerging is a notion of democracy that is being steadily stripped of its popular component—democracy without a demos. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 10:42
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Paxman posted:Blairism wasn't the litany of evil people today paint it out to be. Off the top of my head, some good policies included: blair was pretty great domestically and people who claim blairites are no better than tories are nuts
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Jul 26, 2016 10:53
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Except blairites aren't blair, as has been repeated ad nauseum. Blairites are charisma and creativity vacuums who do nothing except chase the center and can offer no policies whatsoever except "the tories are right but we shouldn't go whole hog." You can't have a centrist party without a left party to give you another side to crib from.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:55
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Zalakwe posted:There is a very good book on that convergence, the decline in public engagement with political parties and their potential end game by Peter Mair - Ruling the Void. I think he would see Corbyn as a natural adjustment if democracy is to survive in its current format. Sure it has been recommended before but well worth a read. Can't recommend this book enough, it's one of the best books on the subject I've ever read. If only he'd survived to finish it the way he'd meant to. 
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Jul 26, 2016 10:55
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Baron Corbyn posted:Chasing the centre was also a much more viable tactic when the working class weren't completely jaded with Labour. And also didn't have someone else to vote for. Ignoring your base because they have nowhere else to go only works when they have nowhere else to go, and now we have UKIP.
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Jul 26, 2016 10:58
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coffeetable posted:blair was pretty great domestically and people who claim blairites are no better than tories are nuts Blair was pretty great domestically until the Iraq war when he became an authoritarian lunatic. The liverpool rehab programs and crime reduction initiatives (which would have been by far his best policies) were dismantled. e; if we're doing book recommendations then Flat Earth News goes into how those policies worked, why they worked, and why Blair dismantled them despite their successes. The answer is "George Bush" so you can skip that bit.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:00
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OwlFancier posted:Except blairites aren't blair, as has been repeated ad nauseum. Sounds like 'blairite' is just a lazy, catch-all term for some anti-corbyn boogeyman.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:00
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Pissflaps posted:Sounds like 'blairite' is just a lazy, catch-all term for some anti-corbyn boogeyman. flaps watching you post more and more shite like this and lose the power of your predictions is like watching an elderly relative with dementia
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Jul 26, 2016 11:02
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Spangly A posted:flaps watching you post more and more shite like this and lose the power of your predictions is like watching an elderly relative with dementia My predictions are almost always correct.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:05
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Mr. Flunchy posted:That is entirely standard listing procedure. The anr or the unrobing? The latter I just found funny but I thought it would be McNicol et al, or is that an American court thing?
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Jul 26, 2016 11:05
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Pissflaps posted:My predictions are almost always correct. oh I'm sorry you technically predicted quite recently that a footballer would go for a lot of money, you clever sausage
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Jul 26, 2016 11:06
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Spangly A posted:Blair was pretty great domestically until the Iraq war when he became an authoritarian lunatic. Why did George Bush care about UK domestic crime programs though? And why did Blair care that he cared other than their weird dysfunctional relationship?
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Jul 26, 2016 11:11
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Spangly A posted:oh I'm sorry you technically predicted quite recently that a footballer would go for a lot of money, you clever sausage For you to have any opinion at all on the accuracy of my opinions you must have seen a few of them so you should know this is not an accurate and full account. However you seem to be veering quickly into ad-hom territory so I'm not certain you're discussing this in good faith.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:12
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Pre-9/11 and Iraq Blair did some good, but he also failed terribly on several areas including fixing the goddamn housing problem. The problem with him and his acolytes is they started to believe their own hype and in constantly chasing the centre for electability stopped really believing in anything beyond the fact that they should be elected. Edit: Pissflaps accusing someone else of arguing in bad faith... There's now a small crater where my irony meter used to be, I shall build a monument out of empty liquor bottles in memory of its valiant struggle.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:14
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Holy loving poo poo https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/757878596216160256 ultrabrutal.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:14
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