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Pissflaps posted:I don't 'hate' Jeremy Corbyn: I think he's the wrong person to lead the Labour Party. No you don't. e: On this day in 1847 Liberia declares it's independence! And who doesn't like a little liberty? Mulva fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 13:20
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Pissflaps posted:I don't 'hate' Jeremy Corbyn: I think he's the wrong person to lead the Labour Party. Yeah. Basically the leader of the labor party and the voters of the labor party don't really fit the labor party itself. It's a conundrum really.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:21
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ukle posted:I think that's very likely, especially given I believe the Labour rules allow for another contest to begin almost immediately if they get the 20% nominations so they can drop Smith, then when ready try again with someone different - especially if the polls still are loving dire. Expect them to run a very different tac next time though, maybe even trying to get Corbyn to anoint a successor if the polls are still in the 20's. Do you honestly think that if it ended in such a farcical way they'd be able to challenge again and have any chance at all? Even if the ghost of Clement Atlee returned to this plane of existence to lead the rebellion?
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Jul 26, 2016 13:23
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Pissflaps posted:I don't 'hate' Jeremy Corbyn: I think he's the wrong person to lead the Labour Party. Thank God you don't have the courage or integrity to make this opinion meaningful.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:24
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Noxville posted:Do you honestly think that if it ended in such a farcical way they'd be able to challenge again and have any chance at all? Even if the ghost of Clement Atlee returned to this plane of existence to lead the rebellion? Unless the rules of triggering a Labour Leadership election change then what's to stop them? However, any leadership contest that hasn't been instigated by Corbyn resigning is doomed to failure. And he won't resign. That's why Labour is hosed.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:25
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The Grauniad has had its arm twisted for the week and produced a pro-Corbyn article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/26/labour-battle-blairites-corbynistas-conservatives-progressivesquote:The 2008 crash and subsequent period of austerity turned the need to break out of the neoliberal trap into an urgent imperative. With Thatcher’s policy framework and new “common sense” still substantively intact, New Labour’s few progressive achievements proved easy for David Cameron and George Osborne to unravel. Meanwhile, the steady resurgence of racism and xenophobia that began during Labour’s rightward shift on immigration was mixing with the country’s deep economic problems, forming a toxic brew that would lead to Brexit and the outbreak of hate crime that came with it.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:28
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Noxville posted:Do you honestly think that if it ended in such a farcical way they'd be able to challenge again and have any chance at all? Even if the ghost of Clement Atlee returned to this plane of existence to lead the rebellion? Not sure why you have faith in the PLP being clever enough to not do something really stupid and self destructive.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:30
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Pissflaps posted:Unless the rules of triggering a Labour Leadership election change then what's to stop them? I don't know why you bothered answering the question in your first sentence with your second one.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:30
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marktheando posted:Not sure why you have faith in the PLP being clever enough to not do something really stupid and self destructive. Exactly, this is the PLP we are talking about, doing stupid things is their current default. Its also why I expect them to only do one again once they have secured Corbyn's departure to a chosen successor. All this is assuming the Labour poll numbers don't magically recover to be ~35%, as if they do then Corbyn will be safe. ukle fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 13:37
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Noxville posted:Do you honestly think that if it ended in such a farcical way they'd be able to challenge again and have any chance at all? Even if the ghost of Clement Atlee returned to this plane of existence to lead the rebellion? Why not? Their goal isn't to win on merit, it's to basically hold the party hostage and sabotage it until someone cracks - either Corbyn gives up or the voters do. Endless resignation games and temporary leadership challenges, so that "Corbyn's Labour" as pissflaps has started calling it becomes eternally mired in bad publicity and ineffectiveness They're making the party unelectable in the name of electability, until they get their way
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Jul 26, 2016 13:37
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Hope those £25 registered supporter fees get refunded. I hope they're not, because it's funnier that way
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Jul 26, 2016 13:38
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Received this very powerful email from future saviour of the Labour Party Owen Smithquote:I grew up in South Wales during the miners' strike. That's when I came alive politically. My favourite part is how he thinks 'radicals' are the sort of people who just go around looking for the word 'radical', rather than being the sort of people who actually seek out policy specifics and form their own judgement on whether or not they're 'radical' (and good). Owen, here's a tip: backing up Trident and 'socially conservative' platforms are not radical.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:38
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Cerv posted:I hope they're not, because it's funnier that way Maybe they could give them a free vote in the next one as compensation? baka kaba posted:Why not? Their goal isn't to win on merit, it's to basically hold the party hostage and sabotage it until someone cracks - either Corbyn gives up or the voters do. Endless resignation games and temporary leadership challenges, so that "Corbyn's Labour" as pissflaps has started calling it becomes eternally mired in bad publicity and ineffectiveness Labour voters are giving up. This is happening.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:39
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Cerv posted:I hope they're not, because it's funnier that way If Owen Smith pulls out of the race I hope Corbyn's response is a video of him making it rain with £10 notes while 3.75 MILLION POUNDS flashes on the screen
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Jul 26, 2016 13:42
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Exciting mailshot for affilated members todayquote:Dear xxxxxxx, I wouldn't say I have enthusiasm for this, but there you go
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Jul 26, 2016 13:43
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Tesseraction posted:Why would she do that? Actually, Comrade, I apologise and you're right. I'd have thought that a woman who's as white as the driven snow and in the top 5% of salary earners in the UK might pause before condemning others for "white privilege" and a dedicated republican might wonder if her principles were compromised by working to support an organisation that not just has the Queen as a passive ceremonial Patron but which actively promotes the monarchy, but you have a fair point in that much like how the UKMT obstinately ignores Dear Leader's lamentable national polling socialists are not known for their self-reflection. kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 13:43
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marktheando posted:Not sure why you have faith in the PLP being clever enough to not do something really stupid and self destructive. Some small part of me still thinks that they can't be that loving stupid. How would they even bow out of this one? Have somebody go "For the past month we've been saying that Corbyn will destroy the party and that he likes kicking cute kittens in the face, but now we're not going to even try to get rid of him and have therefore hosed the party over for no reason". Like, there's absolutely no way to spin that as anything else than utter incompetence and irresponsibility on every concievable level.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:43
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LemonyTang posted:Received this very powerful email from future saviour of the Labour Party Owen Smith I like "Jeremy Corbyn has reconnected our party with its radical principles. But it's now time for a new generation with the energy and ideas to turn those principles in to action." Yes, Mr. Corbyn has reconnected Labour with its mondo principles during the 8 months we let him lead, half of which were spent stabbing him in the back, but it's now time to put them into action by sweeping them under the rug.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:44
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Pissflaps posted:Labour voters are giving up. This is happening. What's it like to spend so much time talking about something you so clearly don't give a poo poo about?
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Jul 26, 2016 13:44
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Boogaleeboo posted:What's it like to spend so much time talking about something you so clearly don't give a poo poo about? What have I said to make you believe I don't give a poo poo?
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Jul 26, 2016 13:46
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kapparomeo posted:Actually, Comrade, I apologise and you're right. I'd have thought that a woman who's as white as the driven snow and in the top 5% of salary earners in the UK might pause before condemning others for "white privilege" and a dedicated republican might wonder if her principles were compromised by working to support an organisation that not just has the Queen as a passive ceremonial Patron but which actively promotes the monarchy, but you have a fair point in that much like how the UKMT obstinately ignores Dear Leader's lamentable national polling socialists are not known for their self-reflection. just gently caress off you tedious poo poo Pissflaps posted:What have I said to make you believe I don't give a poo poo? same but more despairing
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Jul 26, 2016 13:48
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kapparomeo posted:Actually, Comrade, I apologise and you're right. I'd have thought that a woman who's as white as the driven snow and in the top 5% of salary earners in the UK might pause before condemning others for "white privilege" and a dedicated republican might wonder if her principles were compromised by working to support an organisation that not just has the Queen as a passive ceremonial Patron but which actively promotes the monarchy, but you have a fair point in that much like how the UKMT obstinately ignores Dear Leader's lamentable national polling socialists are not known for their self-reflection. So in other words you've got nothing. Also not much point calling me comrade, I'd leave you in a burning building to save baby hitler.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:49
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it's pretty surreal being pandered to by someone I have 0 confidence will deliver. my best case has always been what smith is promising: Corbyn politics with a young firebrand delivering them. I find it hard to believe a loving big pharma lobbyist is going to be that person, and loving impossible to believe that my hypothetical candidate would so incompetently stab Corbyn in the back
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Jul 26, 2016 13:49
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Guavanaut posted:Trident is pretty tubular though. I don't see how saying the existing leader is basically right about things but we should boot him out anyway because we need a "new generation" is going to inspire people.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:49
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CoolCab posted:it's pretty surreal being pandered to by someone I have 0 confidence will deliver. my best case has always been what smith is promising: Corbyn politics with a young firebrand delivering them. I find it hard to believe a loving big pharma lobbyist is going to be that person, and loving impossible to believe that my hypothetical candidate would so incompetently stab Corbyn in the back I dunno about you but I'm all in for this man trying to stab corbyn in the back with his limp dick only to trip over a tub of pfizer branded pills and end up with his head stuck up his arse
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Jul 26, 2016 13:52
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Paxman posted:I don't see how saying the existing leader is basically right about things but we should boot him out anyway because we need a "new generation" is going to inspire people. Well you could always go for the tactic of "be unable to answer basic questions about your previous employment and sound really boring on Newsnight". That's sure to fire up the voters!
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Jul 26, 2016 13:54
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This morning's ICM poll is interesting as its partially blown a 'myth' that keeps being brought up here. https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2016_july_vote_poll-3.pdf Specifically that its the North and The Midlands where Labour will lose votes to UKIP. Its hard to judge based on this limited data, but the threat from UKIP to Labour seems to be more in the Midlands and Wales; UKIP are polling within a few percentage points to Labour in Wales now - whether that would turn in to seats is another matter. But the UKIP threat in the north seems to be very overblown.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:04
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40% chance of a post Brexit recession and a huge increase in the pension gap. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-26/brexit-s-biggest-fans-face-new-115-billion-pension-hole
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Jul 26, 2016 14:05
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ukle posted:This morning's ICM poll is interesting as its partially blown a 'myth' that keeps being brought up here. UKIP being a threat to Labour in Wales isn't new, but the data for Wales is way too limited. There's no way I'm buying the Tories at 30% and Labour at 22% in Wales, especially off a poll of 80 people.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:15
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ukle posted:This morning's ICM poll is interesting as its partially blown a 'myth' that keeps being brought up here. I think it's that Wales feels most neglected by post-97 Labour. Thatcher did actually pile money into (south) Wales through the various enterprise schemes, but Labour - at least as far as I know - really didn't do anything much at all for them, and certainly they didn't benefit at all from the turn of the century boom and were even more comprehensively hosed over by the Great Recession than most, while having a devolved Labour Party that were completely disconnected in the same way Scottish Labour were. However Plaid haven't been anywhere near as muscular as the SNP were in exploiting that, which has led to them drifting UKIP-wards more or less by default. The fact that Wales is most likely to be hurt by Brexit hasn't really factored into things at all because people just aren't interested in facts any more, they just want the politician who's going to give them the easiest scapegoat.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:18
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LemonyTang posted:Received this very powerful email from future saviour of the Labour Party Owen Smith I'm imagining that he's hoping that a lot of the new members aren't actual radical. And I mean...he's right to a point, as a group we're not as radical as the braying idiots like Rafael Behr like to pretend but it would appear that a majority of us still seem more radical than Jeremy Corbyn the Labour Leader (as opposed from Jeremy Corbyn the backbencher who isn't trying to hold a squabbling PLP together). But this all comes down to whether you acknowledge that Corbyn's time as leader hasn't really been all that radical except on his Trident vote. Which is one of those rare things where ronya & I actually agree (I think). But yes, this is the wing of the party that likes to talk about things like "radical centrism" & "radical moderates". Nick Clegg called himself a radical centrist. I mean really.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:18
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Also the threat was never really "UKIP will take a bunch of Northern seats" it was that UKIP seemed to gain what Labour lost, leaving the seats to get scooped up by the Conservatives. I think "Labour is losing voters to UKIP while the Tories remain loyal" is oversimplified, but "Labour loses when nationalists eat their lunch" already played out just across the border.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:20
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I think it's that Wales feels most neglected by post-97 Labour. Thatcher did actually pile money into (south) Wales through the various enterprise schemes, but Labour - at least as far as I know - really didn't do anything much at all for them, and certainly they didn't benefit at all from the turn of the century boom and were even more comprehensively hosed over by the Great Recession than most, while having a devolved Labour Party that were completely disconnected in the same way Scottish Labour were. However Plaid haven't been anywhere near as muscular as the SNP were in exploiting that, which has led to them drifting UKIP-wards more or less by default. There has been quite a bit invested in Wales, mostly by the EU though. There's also this idea that all the money gets spent in Cardiff Bay. I think part of the reason that Plaid Cymru don't do as well is their heavy pushing of the Welsh language. The majority of us don't really speak any Welsh and it does create a bit of a disconnect.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:23
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ukle posted:This morning's ICM poll is interesting as its partially blown a 'myth' that keeps being brought up here. Oh, it's an online poll. When did ICM start doing online polls?
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Jul 26, 2016 14:24
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forkboy84 posted:Nick Clegg called himself a radical centrist. I mean really. ukle posted:but the threat from UKIP to Labour seems to be more in the Midlands 
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Jul 26, 2016 14:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:40% chance of a post Brexit recession and a huge increase in the pension gap. An article claiming a 40% chance of a post-exit recession is 60% out.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:40% chance of a post Brexit recession and a huge increase in the pension gap. None of those people will suffer because everything else will be slashed to keep funding those pensions.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:28
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Guavanaut posted:Well refusing to oppose anything is taking centrism to its radical extreme. Most triumphant politics
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Jul 26, 2016 14:28
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peanut- posted:None of those people will suffer because everything else will be slashed to keep funding those pensions. No, gently caress them. Let's referendum their loving pensions away and see how they react.
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Jul 26, 2016 14:28
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Guavanaut posted:The Midlands are poo poo. Can confirm. Used to live in: Nottingham. poo poo. Peterborough. poo poo Boston. Very poo poo Cambridge. Pretty but poo poo.
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