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WickedHate posted:The Ferengi were meant to be the original main opponent race of TNG, replacing the Cold War Russian Klingons and Chinese Romulas respectively with the evils of capitalism. Which, don't get me wrong, capitalism sucks, but man the Ferengi were a poor execution. So by the time DS9 rolls around they introduce a Ferengi main character with a lot of hidden depths as the show goes on, but starting with season one of DS9 the Ferengi, as a whole, are pretty much just comic relief, going from Captain Planet villains to a species of Mr. Krabs. Certainly the Ferengi were a poor execution since all I've heard about them were "Space Jews" or whatever crass accusations of anti-Semitism the Internet threw at Roddenberry. I'm not sure if that's fair since his purported political views match up with the intention of creating the Ferengi as a strawman race for capitalism. Now, more importantly, what the gently caress is this guy about
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Jul 27, 2016 02:08
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TNG s1 is cartoony in general and bad, but fun. Too much senile roddenberry, best thing he did for TNG was die Be on the lookout for Rikers high kick fight with the admiral, it's beautiful
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Jul 27, 2016 02:08
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The biggest change from late season 2/early season 3 is that when Michael Piller came aboard he said that every storyline needed to be about a character. It's really obvious, going back, the way season 1/2 scripts often aren't about anyone but are just drifting events which the crew are reacting to, very different from the TNG pattern we got used to later.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:15
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Yeah, the tone of the first two seasons can be all over the place because the story was so often unmoored from the characters. There are a bunch of episodes with really interesting premises that end up feeling not-TNG because none plot was propelled by the main crew.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:27
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But really even with the gradual development of the Ferengi they were never again as goofy as they were in that first episode, all shambling around and hissing like Gollum. We never see those weird energy whips again, do we?
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Jul 27, 2016 02:31
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Data Graham posted:But really even with the gradual development of the Ferengi they were never again as goofy as they were in that first episode, all shambling around and hissing like Gollum. We never see those weird energy whips again, do we? We do, in Enterprise 
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Jul 27, 2016 02:37
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Quark has a a Ferengi hero action figure with one as an accessory too.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:59
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Nazareth posted:
He shows up a couple more times. Then you'll understand.
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Jul 27, 2016 03:08
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Quark has a a Ferengi hero action figure with one as an accessory too. It wasn't NRFB though so it wasn't worth as much.
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Jul 27, 2016 03:18
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Nazareth posted:Certainly the Ferengi were a poor execution since all I've heard about them were "Space Jews" or whatever crass accusations of anti-Semitism the Internet threw at Roddenberry. I'm not sure if that's fair since his purported political views match up with the intention of creating the Ferengi as a strawman race for capitalism. right now, getting real creepy about Wesley
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Jul 27, 2016 03:21
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This is your reminder that "The Inner Light" will probably make you bawl your eyes out.
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Jul 27, 2016 03:26
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Star Man posted:This is your reminder that "The Inner Light" will probably make you bawl your eyes out. When Paramount auctioned off all that Star Trek stuff years ago, Patrick Stewart lamented that he didn't bid on the flute.
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Jul 27, 2016 03:29
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Beyond spoilers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGpyJNNcYM
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Jul 27, 2016 04:37
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Nazareth posted:Certainly the Ferengi were a poor execution since all I've heard about them were "Space Jews" or whatever crass accusations of anti-Semitism the Internet threw at Roddenberry. It's been argued in previous Trek threads that the Bajorans, Cardassians, Federation, and Ferengi are all Jews In Space in some way. The Klingons could be the ancient Israelites, arguably.
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Jul 27, 2016 05:26
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Just got back from Beyond and I have to agree, they made a decently good movie this time. Pretty enjoyable and all of the action sequences actually had a point in the plot rather than just...being there. It's still not without it's faults, but at least it's a coherent movie rather than IDs mess. I could actually see myself wanting to rewatch this one rather than be ashamed of owning it (as is the case with ID.) Hopefully the 4th movie, if they end up making it, won't be a revenge plot again though.
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Jul 27, 2016 05:53
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Nazareth posted:Certainly the Ferengi were a poor execution since all I've heard about them were "Space Jews" or whatever crass accusations of anti-Semitism the Internet threw at Roddenberry. I'm not sure if that's fair since his purported political views match up with the intention of creating the Ferengi as a strawman race for capitalism. When you set out to make a strawman ultra-capitalist and they end up looking like something that fell out of a 1930s Germany anti-Jewish poster, well, quacks like duck people gonna say duck.
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Jul 27, 2016 06:02
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Also you cast 90% jewish actors...
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Jul 27, 2016 06:34
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Data basically turning to the audience and saying "These guys are 19th century America" in their first appearance was too subtle for some people I guess.
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Jul 27, 2016 06:37
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Finally saw Beyond, it was great... decided to watch the Voyager episode "The Swarm" when I got home.... Man, the swarm of ships that Voyager encountered was downright neighborly in comparison. 
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Jul 27, 2016 08:53
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Grand Fromage posted:Data basically turning to the audience and saying "These guys are 19th century America" in their first appearance was too subtle for some people I guess. Of course, you know who really ran 19th century America...
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Jul 27, 2016 12:04
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mossyfisk posted:Of course, you know who really ran 19th century America... The Stonecutters?
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Jul 27, 2016 12:30
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After seeing Beyond again I'm dialing back my initial good impression quite a bit. The cast really was great and a lot of elements are there but all three new movies just leave me with a general dissapointment. They really could have been something if they weren't first and foremost summer action movies.
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Jul 27, 2016 12:34
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Not disclosing the villain's real motivation until the end of the 3rd act was a bad decision, IMO
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Jul 27, 2016 12:54
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Yeah the old Earth soldier kept alive by alien war lostech was an interesting foil for once.
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Jul 27, 2016 13:02
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah the old Earth soldier kept alive by alien war lostech was an interesting foil for once. Could have made a nice little point about how that alien society ultimately wiped itself out through its endless warmongering and that a greater unity really is the only way forward. Edit: Make Jala a post apocalyptic descendent of the race that built the stuff Krall found and give her some lines about how we "destroyed ourselves seeking strength and fighting others". sunday at work fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 13:10
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I think mostly I was just overjoyed that Beyond had a coherent plot that was also fairly original and not a complete ripoff of something else. And they had a creative, clever way of beating the bad guys, not just pew pew lasers.
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Jul 27, 2016 13:19
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sunday at work posted:After seeing Beyond again I'm dialing back my initial good impression quite a bit. The cast really was great and a lot of elements are there but all three new movies just leave me with a general dissapointment. They really could have been something if they weren't first and foremost summer action movies. My man.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:03
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah the old Earth soldier kept alive by alien war lostech was an interesting foil for once.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:24
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think mostly I was just overjoyed that Beyond had a coherent plot that was also fairly original and not a complete ripoff of something else. And they had a creative, clever way of beating the bad guys, not just pew pew lasers. Same. They made a passable Star Trek movie with action elements. That's really okay! We need those Enterprise Mine and Doomsday Machine and Juggernaut episodes. They give texture to the really cerebral ones. But you need to have the Trek underpinnings. Into Darkness and Nemesis didn't have that, in my opinion. Beyond did. Or at least it tried.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:24
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I'll be honest, I'd have been happy if the movie had just been two hours of panning around Yorktown.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:52
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Mr. Jive posted:Same. They made a passable Star Trek movie with action elements. That's really okay! We need those Enterprise Mine and Doomsday Machine and Juggernaut episodes. They give texture to the really cerebral ones. *dies waiting for another "really cerebral" Star Trek story in any official audiovisual medium*
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Jul 27, 2016 16:07
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MikeJF posted:I'll be honest, I'd have been happy if the movie had just been two hours of panning around Yorktown. I was on a balcony at an ultrascreen with a hangover and I was very happy when Yorktown stopped spinning around me.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:11
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CharlieWhiskey posted:I was on a balcony at an ultrascreen with a hangover and I was very happy when Yorktown stopped spinning around me. I was in IMAX 3D with a fancy new laser projector and it was astonishing.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:15
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Yorktown was awesome. Easily the coolest thing in the film. The new uniforms were sweet, too. Pine has really nailed movie Kirk, it's a really naturalistic set of acting choices which evoke so much of what I like from Shatner in the films. The standout performance to me.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:48
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Yorktown was awesome. Easily the coolest thing in the film. The new uniforms were sweet, too. I'm good with Pine and most of the cast really but I'm shocked that they still have no idea how Spock works or what his appeal is. Quinto plays Spock like a big dummy who thinks he's fooling everyone about his emotional state via his awful poker face. It's painfully obvious that Spock is emoting in every scene he's in, when those moments should be reserved for...oh, I dunno, every 4th episode or so? The smile at the end of Amok Time wouldn't be so great if Spock weren't completely inscrutable 99% of the time.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:11
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Why cookie Rocket posted:I'm good with Pine and most of the cast really but I'm shocked that they still have no idea how Spock works or what his appeal is. Quinto plays Spock like a big dummy who thinks he's fooling everyone about his emotional state via his awful poker face. It's painfully obvious that Spock is emoting in every scene he's in, when those moments should be reserved for...oh, I dunno, every 4th episode or so? The smile at the end of Amok Time wouldn't be so great if Spock weren't completely inscrutable 99% of the time. Good to see that I'm not alone in thinking that Quinto is kind of a lovely Spock. Most of the time he just comes across as an angry, passive aggressive dick. He's more likable and less of an rear end in a top hat in this one, though. Nimoy's Spock works so well because he's very subtle. Quinto has no subtlety. Like... I kind of feel like Tim Russ's Tuvok feels more like Spock to me than Quinto's. And Tuvok pulls off the "really hates you but keeps it contained" thing a lot better. That's probably because he really loathes Neelix and it works because the audience really loathes Neelix, too. Tuvok gets along okay with almost anyone not Neelix. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 17:17
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It doesn't help that he loses his cool completely at least once per movie he is in. He comes across as more emotionally unstable than any of the other characters in the films. Part of it has to be on writing, because I doubt he has much say regarding that, but he really is pretty terrible even when he is supposed to be in full Vulcan mode. Any time someone talks to him he seems to go all defensive.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:20
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CharlieWhiskey posted:I was on a balcony at an ultrascreen with a hangover and I was very happy when Yorktown stopped spinning around me. , wrote Douglas Adams.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:21
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remusclaw posted:It doesn't help that he loses his cool completely at least once per movie he is in. He comes across as more emotionally unstable than any of the other characters in the films. Part of it has to be on writing, because I doubt he has much say regarding that, but he really is pretty terrible even when he is supposed to be in full Vulcan mode. Any time someone talks to him he seems to go all defensive. Yeah. People often say "oh, well he saw this planet get blown up and his mother die!" but I don't really feel like that's a good excuse. Nimoy Spock would almost definitely shed a tear but still try to remain stoic. The only times Nimoy Spock would have a full-on meltdown is if he was going through Pon Farr or if something weird was screwing with his brain chemistry. Like, the whole appeal of Spock's character is that he's inscrutable and very cool, calm and collected at nearly all times. Even in the face of death. He's not the life of the party, but also not too hard to get along with unless you're Bones and you deliberately try to provoke him, only for him to turn around and lay down some sick ice burns.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:30
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It suffers from only being these three movies. Nimoy Spock showing an emotional reaction to Kirk's death or Vulcan being destroyed doesn't feel out of character to me but those wouldn't be the only two events we'd seen in his existence.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:34
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