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Also he doesn't like remainers but leavers are the patriot types who wouldn't want England to become less powerful but he's crowing that leave won and now England is going to be "colonized". This troll is loving balls!!!!!!!!! 355 ad - The submarine Kursk would not be built for another 1657 years Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 19:28
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Prince John posted:One thing omitted from it (and it probably doesn't have a place in your article given your profession) is the sheer implausibility and financial cost of actually providing security at the tens of thousands of small rural congregations across the UK. It's kind of a different topic, but it feeds into the wider issue that people seem to wilfully ignore - you can't actually stop terrorism from occurring with 'security'. Sure you can focus on specific times and places, and put measures in place to lock things down and prevent certain things from happening, but even that is hugely dependent on the resources you put in and what a terrorist is actually trying to do. But these kinds of 'something bad could happen, anywhere' attacks the news hypes up and scaremongers about are impossible to prevent That idiot on Sky News literally walked into what's basically a public place, and said 'yeah I could totally kill some people if I wanted, how about that'. No poo poo? The best you can do is focus on making society a place where nobody wants to do that. Instead government and the media like to focus on authoritarian strongman tactics in place of compassion and inclusivity
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Jul 28, 2016 19:30
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Regarde Aduck posted:Also he doesn't like remainers but leavers are the patriot types who wouldn't want England to become less powerful but he's crowing that leave won and now England is going to be "colonized". This troll is loving balls!!!!!!!!! Finally England will get the colon it deserves ;
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Jul 28, 2016 19:31
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I have been playing this as a fun clicker game https://colestia.itch.io/crisis-theory It's free, although you're encouraged to donate and also tell your friends that you play  Marxist clicker games.It's also very basic, but it does depict an economic model that most people seem to think is the only fair system that works, as described by a philosopher that most people think wants to steal your bicycle and make it the state's property and murder your famil.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:39
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The mainstream media are pretty much ISIS's propaganda arm these days, literally sowing fear and paranoia of a magnitude the terrorists could only dream of achieving on their own.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:39
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baka kaba posted:It's kind of a different topic, but it feeds into the wider issue that people seem to wilfully ignore - you can't actually stop terrorism from occurring with 'security'. Sure you can focus on specific times and places, and put measures in place to lock things down and prevent certain things from happening, but even that is hugely dependent on the resources you put in and what a terrorist is actually trying to do. But these kinds of 'something bad could happen, anywhere' attacks the news hypes up and scaremongers about are impossible to prevent You're entirely right that stopping terrorism is something that can only be done through societal change. However preventing individual attacks is very much possible. The simple fact is that if a lone person is self-destructively intent on doing harm then there's little short of force that can prevent that- however even suicide attackers can be deterred from attacking a certain target. Again, I don't want to go into too much detail in public, but there are ways and means of layering security to make a target overwhelmingly difficult to attack. Also, remember that 'security' isn't just a man in hi-viz; it's the entire combination of the state and private sector cooperating and sharing intelligence. When the system works properly it's actually very effective. For every attack that is carried out a great many get stopped long before the general public is aware of it.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:41
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Guavanaut posted:If there was a large town called Fuckall on the map around there, I wouldn't think it odd. My home is on this map. I'm being stalked.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:44
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Where can I get a job playing terrorist tower defence for a living?
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Jul 28, 2016 19:45
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baka kaba posted:It's kind of a different topic, but it feeds into the wider issue that people seem to wilfully ignore - you can't actually stop terrorism from occurring with 'security' I'm in complete agreement*. Coupled with this is the dilution of the phrase 'existential threat'. I guess it's hard for politicians to make the point without sounding like they're minimising the casualties, but I can't help but think that every statistic about terrorism should be presented alongside car crash deaths or similar to provide context. * in the general sense, I will bow to the expert above on specific targets of course!
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Jul 28, 2016 19:48
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Prince John posted:I'm in complete agreement*. Coupled with this is the dilution of the phrase 'existential threat'. I guess it's hard for politicians to make the point without sounding like they're minimising the casualties, but I can't help but think that every statistic about terrorism should be presented alongside car crash deaths or similar to provide context. I'm not sure whether that should be shared around a lot or not though. On one hand I would like a lot of the security spending to be spent on improved housing or the NHS, where it would save a lot more lives and make existing lives better, on the other, I'm sure there's a band of tabloid authoritarians that would start clamoring for cameras in every bathroom for our own good.
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Jul 28, 2016 19:53
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^^^ Only 30x? I ain't buying that misterCamrath posted:You're entirely right that stopping terrorism is something that can only be done through societal change. However preventing individual attacks is very much possible. The simple fact is that if a lone person is self-destructively intent on doing harm then there's little short of force that can prevent that- however even suicide attackers can be deterred from attacking a certain target. Again, I don't want to go into too much detail in public, but there are ways and means of layering security to make a target overwhelmingly difficult to attack. Also, remember that 'security' isn't just a man in hi-viz; it's the entire combination of the state and private sector cooperating and sharing intelligence. When the system works properly it's actually very effective. For every attack that is carried out a great many get stopped long before the general public is aware of it. Yeah, I'm not trying to say it's impossible, or that there aren't effective (and even cheap) deterrents. Really I was talking more about how hard it is to stop *anything* from happening, because often *anything* is enough to achieve a goal. The more specific you get and the more resources you put in (like bad enough dudes protecting the president) then yeah, the more effective it'll be, but if it's something like 'person has access to sharp object and stabs someone while shouting about terrorism' then I'd imagine that's pretty hard to absolutely prevent, even in fairly high-security places? Even if the Sky News fever dream of having churches turned into bristling fortresses with dog patrols came true, it still doesn't seem like you could stop a determined person from committing some kind of attack, and one is all it really takes to have everyone freak the gently caress out
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Jul 28, 2016 19:56
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baka kaba posted:^^^ Only 30x? I ain't buying that mister
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Jul 28, 2016 19:59
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What about Lethal Weapon-style bombs under the toilet?
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Jul 28, 2016 20:03
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Serotonin posted:My home is on this map. I'm being stalked. Given that only seven people live in the area of that map you may have revealed a bit too much here.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:04
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I genuinely can't get over how hard it is to tell the sky report from a brass eye one.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:06
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Serotonin posted:My home is on this map. I'm being stalked. You can get in a lot of trouble if they find you living on a golf course.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:15
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Guavanaut posted:slipping in the bath or shower no joke, as my fractured humerus a few years back can tell you (it wasn't.)
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Jul 28, 2016 20:17
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baka kaba posted:^^^ Only 30x? I ain't buying that mister The lone-nutter is certainly the hardest type of attack to protect against- and is to be honest one of the reasons why, despite all I've said so far, that most of my guys are issued discreet body-armour and given training in handling armed attackers physically (both with guns or blades): blitz style attacks often can't be spotted in the planning/recon stages, and if it comes down to one person and the mad voices in their head telling them to kill then the chances are they[re going to just go on ahead and do their thing. But terrorist attacks are rare. Lone maniac attacks even rarer. And to protect against them the best way is to have a robust mental health service and to engage with the isolated, the desperate or the disturbed as best as is possible. I think we actually agree on most points, tbh. Even the best security operation isn't perfect. Sometimes poo poo will happen. Sometimes people will die. Hell, heads of state get killed, even. But it's possible to minimise that to the greatest possible extent.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:18
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Not Operator posted:You can get in a lot of trouble if they find you living on a golf course. If you're a kestrel you should be fine.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:19
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Camrath posted:Hell, heads of state get killed, even. But it's possible to minimise that to the greatest possible extent. 
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Jul 28, 2016 20:22
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OwlFancier posted:Where can I get a job playing terrorist tower defence for a living? Go to work for the military, police or security services if you want the best possible start on things. Or if like me you missed out on most of your late teens and the first half of your twenties due to sadbrains, start work as a security guard, soak up all the knowledge and experience you can, take every course you can and take the opportunities that you can to move towards that side of things. Right now I'm a manager in a private security company; tbh I really love my job, but it's also not my end goal- the really interesting poo poo is in consultancy work rather than the operational side. Edit: ^ Fair point, well made!
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Jul 28, 2016 20:22
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OwlFancier posted:I genuinely can't get over how hard it is to tell the sky report from a brass eye one.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:29
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My CLP just voted 107-73 for Owen Smith. All the speakers were a bit shambolic except for two who were both for Smith and I think won the room over.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:41
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TinTower posted:Sup Calder Valley goon. Jesus so that makes at least two Calder valley goons that I wasn't aware of. Just how many of you are there?
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Jul 28, 2016 20:49
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Camrath posted:I think we actually agree on most points, tbh. Even the best security operation isn't perfect. Sometimes poo poo will happen. Sometimes people will die. Hell, heads of state get killed, even. But it's possible to minimise that to the greatest possible extent. Yeah I definitely wasn't trying to talk down your field, more saying that the kind of 'security' people are conditioned to expect in Britain is impossible to achieve. A rare danger gets hyped up into something that threatens us all, and then the inability to prevent a thing ever happening ever is presented as vital failure that needs to be addressed with STRONG ACTION Pretty much authoritarian propaganda, basically. It's not rooted in any real appreciation of the situation or any specific operational concerns. Just telling people to fear the bogeymans
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Jul 28, 2016 20:50
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TinTower posted:Sup Calder Valley goon. Sorry to disappoint, I'm not even british. I'm just a fiend for british politics.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:51
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https://twitter.com/joshbrandwood/status/758748596653219840
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Jul 28, 2016 20:56
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Hoops posted:My CLP just voted 107-73 for Owen Smith. All the speakers were a bit shambolic except for two who were both for Smith and I think won the room over. For anyone interested in the CLP nominations this twitter is very on the ball: https://twitter.com/clpnominations Tonight looks like a mega Corbyn train LemonyTang fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 20:58
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Gavrilo Princip posted:Jesus so that makes at least two Calder valley goons that I wasn't aware of. Just how many of you are there? Well, I split my time between Leeds and Calder Valley. I take it you're in the nicer part with poo poo mobile reception, as opposed to the more racist part down river?
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Jul 28, 2016 21:01
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Just got back from the Southampton Test CLP nomination meeting, 64-54 Corbyn!  Based on the strongly biased applause patterns, I'm pretty sure nobody went into that room without knowing who they were voting for, and the speakers had no effect.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:02
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waffle posted:Just got back from the Southampton Test CLP nomination meeting, 64-54 Corbyn! Excellent, closer than I thought but I'm not dissapointed from missing the meeting at least.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:12
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So this is an interesting survey: http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/TB_9860_EVENING_STANDARD_280716.pdf Smith leads in country-wide popularity, but Labour voters (inc. 2015 Labour voters) overwhelmingly prefer Corbyn. Country-wide popularity obviously not very useful to work out capacity to increase vote, since it includes a bunch of voters who are never going to switch parties anyway. There are some questions about how each candidate would affect people's voting intention - roughly 2.5% of people surveyed don't vote Labour now but are 'far more likely' to vote Labour under Corbyn as compared to 2.2% for Smith. On the other hand, about 4% of current Lab voters in survey (0.9% of total) 'far less likely' to vote Labour under Corbyn vs. 14% of Lab voters (2.7% of total) under Smith. Although on inspection that makes it look like Corbyn might be a little better electorally (a bit more potential to gain voters from other parties, less likely to lose Labour voters), these are very small numbers and probably the difference isn't statistically significant. Also isn't weighted for likelihood to vote. Doesn't look like Smith has any real advantage though. e: if you include the people who are a *little* more likely to vote Labour, Smith does substantially better, but he also repels current Labour voters at a much higher rate - the difference between him and Corbyn ends up more or less cancelling out. Whoever wins, it looks like Labour has a bit of room to improve. OvineYeast fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 21:16
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Prince John posted:. Coupled with this is the dilution of the phrase 'existential threat'. I guess it's hard for politicians to make the point without sounding like they're minimising the casualties, but I can't help but think that every statistic about terrorism should be presented alongside car crash deaths or similar to provide context. The thing is, there are no documented cases of car accidents suddenly becoming more common to the point where pedestrians have to pay smugglers to put them on leaky boats to get away from the carnage. Whereas terrorism is very much how civil wars start.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:18
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radmonger posted:Whereas terrorism is very much how civil wars start. Yeah but there's not much we can do to stop America, they've got too many guns.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:23
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Also there's got to be a counter hegemonic organisation or ideology thriving in society before it explodes into civil war rather than isolated acts of terror.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:26
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Breaking news from The Guardian, what does Jeremy Corbyn's Ralph Lauren jacket mean????? https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2016/jul/28/jeremy-corbyn-and-his-ralph-lauren-jacket-stylewatch Also they are completely wrong for saying £150 quid is not a lot to spend on an all weather jacket, my jacket is from a charity shop and cost £20.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:26
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I reckon terrorism hasn't actually got that much worse in recent years, just that the participants and the, shall we say, "geographical distribution of incidents" has changed.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:27
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radmonger posted:The thing is, there are no documented cases of car accidents suddenly becoming more common Considering the UK's experience with IRA attacks in contrast with everything that's happened since, I think we're a very long way off having to worry about having to evacuate the UK because of terrorism causing a civil war. 
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Jul 28, 2016 21:28
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TomViolence posted:I reckon terrorism hasn't actually got that much worse in recent years, just that the participants and the, shall we say, "geographical distribution of incidents" has changed.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:29
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StoneOfShame posted:Breaking news from The Guardian, what does Jeremy Corbyn's Ralph Lauren jacket mean????? https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2016/jul/28/jeremy-corbyn-and-his-ralph-lauren-jacket-stylewatch As is mine but it was probably closer to £200 when it was new.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:30
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