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Avasculous posted:It's my understanding that Confederation requires a positive relationship (to any degree) and a difference in relative strength (to a huge degree). Can you attack them but then carefully don't kill the Lord / let their units retreat? Leave them with a weakened army.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:32
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I know people keep saying lore of wilds is busted but I'd rather see every lore be that good. Give me a reason to bother bringing a wizard and paying attention to them. I also like the increased cooldowns on some of the more powerful spells, gives you a reason to not just spam a single spell and makes cooldown skills/items more meaningful. If one of your spells summons a cygor the rest of the lore needs to be able to compete with that. I really hope CA does a pass on the vanilla schools to bring them up to there instead of nerfing wilds. Leader murder spells (spirit leech) can just have a significant cooldown to prevent instant general snipes from across the map. Hell, reducing the range would help with that too. You could have a solid defensive gently caress you option for a caster afraid of bullies, and could trade the risk and cost of overcasting if you want that extra offensive reach. You could even swap out some of the damage for debuffs to reduce sniping power without lowering spell power. Malagor for pres 2016 make casters great again.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:11
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They really need to nerf Devolve, at least. You can annhilate frontlines before they even hit your units.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:32
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Endorph posted:They really need to nerf Devolve, at least. You can annhilate frontlines before they even hit your units. Wow, I just tried it out. Not quite that bad (unless the front lines are goblins maybe?) but the ability to hit any number of targets inside the fairly large area with zero friendly fire is pretty OP for sure, and it has a morale debuff on top of the damage. It also costs as much as a cygor.....but it is much easier and safer to use and does the damage much faster with no chance of hitting friendlies. That poo poo is bonkers. edit: Although the lore is beastman specific, I get some factions are based around having strong magic, so it's cool to have those factions get unique spells that are outirght better at doing something. I thought vamps were supposed to be the big caster focused race though? And their unique lore only has the heal (maybe wind of death?) that's worth casting, nothing as powerful as devolve for sure. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 10:15
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I've been trying out Gelt again to see how Lore of Metal does and while Searing Doom still appears to be garbage I got around 70 kills from a single cast of Gehenna's Golden Hounds on a melee, which is decent. Final Transmutation is a waste of time though.
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Jul 31, 2016 10:47
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Carnalfex posted:Wow, I just tried it out. Granted my ally had some peasant archers firing too, but still.
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Jul 31, 2016 11:02
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Naval combat should be fun
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Jul 31, 2016 12:19
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Any tips for getting a VH dwarf campaign off the ground? I've got a solid stack that will win most fights it gets in, but I'm feeling trapped in Silver Road. I can take maybe 1 turn in any direction before an orc stack tunnels in from another direction and wrecks my poo poo. Am I basically stuck on the defensive until all my starting stuff has walls?
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Jul 31, 2016 13:02
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Wilekat posted:Any tips for getting a VH dwarf campaign off the ground? I've got a solid stack that will win most fights it gets in, but I'm feeling trapped in Silver Road. I can take maybe 1 turn in any direction before an orc stack tunnels in from another direction and wrecks my poo poo. Am I basically stuck on the defensive until all my starting stuff has walls? Pretty much, yeah. Don't worry, Dwarf armies pack a lot of punch, and your three settlements will get you enough cash through tinker shops to sustain at least two half-stacks, so you can leave one at home while the other ventures out to conquer. A risky play I often try after the walls are up is gunning for the Orc provincial capital in the north, past the arctic hell valley. It has not only gold, but also a special unique mine. Combined, that single settlement can sustain a full mid-tier Dwarf army, which is a huge deal.
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Jul 31, 2016 13:31
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Wilekat posted:Any tips for getting a VH dwarf campaign off the ground? I've got a solid stack that will win most fights it gets in, but I'm feeling trapped in Silver Road. I can take maybe 1 turn in any direction before an orc stack tunnels in from another direction and wrecks my poo poo. Am I basically stuck on the defensive until all my starting stuff has walls? The safest route of expansion is north into mount gunbad (any maybe its accompanying settlement) If you can't safely start sending an army there within the first 10 turns Zhufbar or Karak Kadran might take it from you first. Then just hunker down in silver road and occasionally sack and raze bordering greenskins until you've got a strong base to operate out of that can hold the waaghs at bay
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Jul 31, 2016 13:37
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I think pro-actively dealing with Grimgor Ironhide early on is by far the better move. Gunbad takes way too much to build up, especially with higher difficulty public order maluses. Also, defend with your army in ambush mode. You want to bait those enemies into attacking, not have them sit waiting for a weakness.
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Jul 31, 2016 13:54
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A thane is enough to deal with the public order crisis in gunbad and it starts paying for itself almost instantly. Ambush stance is the superior defensive stance, just stand within range of a garrison and play the battle out manually and you can beat really long odds
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Jul 31, 2016 14:00
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It's far easier to deal with the Greenskins early on, turtling is almost never a good option in this game. You have the best tier 1 troops in the game as the dwarfs, use them! Bumrush grimgor after taking the first province and take black crag by turn 10 or so.
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Jul 31, 2016 14:01
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Kainser posted:It's far easier to deal with the Greenskins early on, turtling is almost never a good option in this game. The problem I have is the demands of being in 3 places at once. If I go hunting, one of the other two Greenskin factions on my border pushes in with a full stack immediately because they can see where I am. Grimgor confederating the Bloody Spears actually made my life easier because it gave me a brief opportunity to grab Gunbad. I win any fight I can actually get committed to, but two different Greenskin factions Waaaghing simultaneously (the Scabby Eyes are wrecking face) has me pinned a bit. Taking Gunbad has literally just doubled my income, so hopefully I'm settled now.
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Jul 31, 2016 14:06
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Some more observations from testing. Fate of Bjuna got nerfed to hell, ironic with all the (brokenly) better versions introduced with the new lores. It's completely useless against small elite units now, where it used to be an overly effective way to deal with units like demi's it only does ~250-400 HP to them now. It's more effective against large infantry blocks but not especially good, it's worth about 1100 HP vs heavy infantry like Bestigors and 2100 HP against larger units like Gors/Ungors. Note that the damage is spread out enough that it largely won't actually kill any units on it's own, just weaken the total HP pool by about a third. Death is...better than Metal, but fallen pretty far from being the King of Lores two patches ago. On the plus side, Purple Sun is pretty heavily buffed, it actually does good damage now if you get a good shot lined up. Still I'd say Death is pretty middling in this patch. Also massively nerfed, the Luminarch is back to chipping away at monsters and heroes instead of one or two-shotting them. It's shifted from powerful in a niche to mostly useless.
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Jul 31, 2016 14:11
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stopgap1 posted:I wonder if they need to make it do morale damage or something, because at this point it's pointless. Just get the magic mod off the workshop IMO There are too many spells which suck poo poo. The magic mod makes a bunch of the buffs more significant, last longer, stuff like that
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Jul 31, 2016 15:21
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For beastmen, I know that Minotaurs are fantastic, but what should I really be using for my core? Just Gor Herds with some flanking hidden Ungor? Gors don't look that much better than Ungor and they lose stalk (and shielded Gor lose Vanguard).
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Jul 31, 2016 15:24
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Gors are quite a bit stronger than Ungors, actually. Don't take the shields, they aren't worth it at all. Gors and Ungor Spears are basically your core units, Spears as frontline fodder and Gors as your fast flanking/vanguard unit that has some hope of breaking the enemy, and if you can't break the enemy with Beastmen you won't win, so.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:39
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Really, the entire Beastmen melee infantry roster is just there to hold a poo poo line so your 8+ Minotaurs and Devolve can do the actual work.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:41
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For anyone playing Empire make sure you protect your borders after uniting the Reikland. I got into a serious panic mode as the bray herds kept on attacking my settlements after I went out and started unifying the provinces. They went a bit wild in my game and started razing most of my settlements by turn 15, I was barely holding on as Marienburg was building up a sizeable force and chilling out on my border. Luckily, they never declared war on me when I was at my weakest. So, after dealing with the brayherds, I strated raiding Marienburg with Franz and eventually got the wastelands under my control with a neat profit. Right, now I'm trying to deal with chaos corruption in my lands and it's a bit of a pain in the rear end. Any tips besides spamming witch hunters?
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Jul 31, 2016 15:42
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madmac posted:Gors are quite a bit stronger than Ungors, actually. Don't take the shields, they aren't worth it at all. Yeah I agree that shielded gors give up too much to be worth it. Also ungor archers are pretty decent for the early game and a good way of dealing with outriders and other ranged cavalry that your beastmen have a hard time catching up to. e: Avasculous posted:It's my understanding that Confederation requires a positive relationship (to any degree) and a difference in relative strength (to a huge degree). I had a military alliance and a positive relationship of 80+ and the power bar was about 4/5 towards my side. I suppose I could have tried recruiting a new temporary horde full of ungors just to try and sway the balance of power further. It's a rather 'gamey' way of dealing with it if it works. I even tried giving them like 40000 favor and they still had a 'low' interest in confederating.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:45
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The Malagor start feels loving miserable. I know it's probably irrational but drat just slap me down in a quagmire where I can barely move anywhere in a turn unless I sacrifice recruitment and uuuugh. Whatsname gets to actually move from turn 1 in a place I haven't really ever been in but he's not a caster and giants are fun 
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Jul 31, 2016 15:48
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Gitro posted:The Malagor start feels loving miserable. I know it's probably irrational but drat just slap me down in a quagmire where I can barely move anywhere in a turn unless I sacrifice recruitment and uuuugh. Minotaurs are fun too!
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Jul 31, 2016 15:53
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Kainser posted:Naval combat should be fun I still don't get people that don't want naval combat. Goat men riding narwhals! Look at that! Just look at that and tell me "oh ships are always tedious". That's a giant horned whale overflowing with angry minotaurs! I cannot wait to see them skewering and piling onto a Dwarven Monitor to send it to Davy Jones' locker.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:26
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the concept is cool but the reality will be three arrow ships circling each other in the open sea for seventeen mintutes
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Jul 31, 2016 16:29
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Imagine a battle where every single unit is marauder horsemen, except it's in the sea.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:36
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Endorph posted:the concept is cool but the reality will be three arrow ships circling each other in the open sea for seventeen mintutes There are zero "arrow ships" from what we've seen so far/based on Man O' War, everything has ballistas or heavier for armament. NewMars posted:The only thing I wish for in this game is chaos dwarves. Is there any indication that the madman assyrian/babylonians will ever be put in? Good News: Data-mining shows that CA has at least considered a Chaos Dwarfs DLC for the future. Bad (?) News: The Chaos Dwarfs in the Hellcannon crew seem to be based on the Forgeworld models for the daemonic choo-choo train, so we'll probably have tiny Warriors of Chaos instead of the rank & file goofy hat brigades
Triskelli fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 16:38
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Triskelli posted:Good News: Data-mining shows that CA has at least considered a Chaos Dwarfs DLC for the future.  And check out whatever this is: 
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Jul 31, 2016 17:02
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Dongattack posted:I don't have the DLC and i'm not buying it, but as announced earlier i still get to fight beastmen in the grand campaign correct? If so, around what turn do they start showing up? Yeah you still get them popping up. You really should invest in the DLC though, beastmen in the grand campaign are all the rampaging fun that chaos should have been.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:32
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No goofy hats, no deal.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:36
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Are bestigors actually any good? I never get to find out because my Gorebull and Minotaur units are so busy raping the poo poo out of everything and it's so glorious to watch in close up that I forget to keep any eye on the rest of my army.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:40
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Nash posted:No goofy hats, no deal. The economy hit everyone hard, there's only so many goofy hats to go around: 
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Jul 31, 2016 17:43
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The artillery crews have guys wearing these things: I think the Infernal Guard chaos dwarf models that Forge World put out are meant to be the elite troops so that leaves room for the regular chaos dwarfs to have plenty of goofy hats.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:46
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KM Scorchio posted:Are bestigors actually any good? I never get to find out because my Gorebull and Minotaur units are so busy raping the poo poo out of everything and it's so glorious to watch in close up that I forget to keep any eye on the rest of my army. They're the weakest but fastest heavy infantry unit. They have a place but they're not especially strong and easy to skip over.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:55
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VH Dwarf trip report.  gently caress you, Grimgor; I'd like to see you replace that loving doom diver while I'm burning down your world. 
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Jul 31, 2016 17:56
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KM Scorchio posted:Are bestigors actually any good? I never get to find out because my Gorebull and Minotaur units are so busy raping the poo poo out of everything and it's so glorious to watch in close up that I forget to keep any eye on the rest of my army. Could we not use rape this way? Thank you. The AI actually pulled off a pretty smart move in my latest VH empire game. Karl had to go south to deal with a beast man incursion. Marienburg immediately declared war and sacked eilhart. Of course, Karl turned around and rushed back north. Thing is, marienburg didn't just sack and run as I thought they had; they had left their army in ambush right next to my town. I fell right into their trap and had to fight a desperate ambush battle.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:57
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Yeah I agree that shielded gors give up too much to be worth it. Also ungor archers are pretty decent for the early game and a good way of dealing with outriders and other ranged cavalry that your beastmen have a hard time catching up to. Actually, maybe I spoke too soon. I just went through the same thing in the mini-campaign: I had all the Ultimate victory requirements met except 1/2 Confederations. The one and only Beastman faction remaining is allied with me, super positive relationship, and 5/5 on strength ranking to my 1/5. I spent like 15 turns recruiting a third stack and spamming extra units. No interest in Confederating. Offered him huge bribes every turn. No interest in Confederating and REJECTED all of the bribes. Broke the alliance, killed 2/3s of his army, made peace. No interest in Confederating. Either Beastmen are really stubborn assholes or there's some additional factor in the mini-campaign. I did notice that when you meet a new tribe, there's a quest to 'impress' them by sacking 3 Empire settlements. You're only offered it once and I didn't do it in time for this tribe. It would be kind of lame if true, but I wonder if that prevents them from ever Confederating with you.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:09
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Achievements are bugged I assume? Not that I care, but I just got the achievements for beating the Beastmen grand campaign on Very Hard or Legendary for beating the min-campaign on normal. I didn't get any achievements associated with the mini-campaign.Avasculous posted:I did notice that when you meet a new tribe, there's a quest to 'impress' them by sacking 3 Empire settlements. You're only offered it once and I didn't do it in time for this tribe. It would be kind of lame if true, but I wonder if that prevents them from ever Confederating with you. I don't know if not doing it locks you out, but I did them all and it never helped so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 18:12
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Yeah the mini campaign and grand campaign achievements are reversed and some or all of these are broken or they wouldn't still be at 0% I assume 0% Maze of Torment, Maze of Death Construct a Cursed Labyrinth in one of your hordes. 0% Eye for a Ruinous Eye Playing as Beastmen, win the Eye for an Eye challenge campaign. 0% Surprise! You're Dead... Playing as Beastmen, win 10 ambush battles during a single campaign. 0% The Long War, the Endless Hunt Playing as Beastmen, have a raiding income of 6,000. 0% Through the Skin to the Soul Playing as Beastmen, recruit a Cygor to one of your armies.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:15
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Smiling Knight posted:Could we not use rape this way? Thank you. I would thank you not to thank me pre-emptively for things I shall not be doing. Thanks.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:21
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