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ImpAtom posted:Nationalism is dumb. Moving wouldn't change that. Patriotism and nationalism aren't really the same thing, but the problem is that there's like a millimeter thick line that divides the two. Patriotism is fine, but some of the tail end of the DNC bothered me a little bit too.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:09
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The Iran story isn't on the main pages of NBC, CNN, Washington Post, NY Times, Huffington post. No one cares about it.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:09
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 This is an actual CNN headline. About a candidate for President of the United States.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:09
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Aug 4, 2016 02:10
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Pakled posted:I'm very much enjoying the recent push to highlight the diversity of America in patriotic messages. It's seriously a great thing about the United States that we have, currently and historically, such a huge immigrant population and depictions of Americans that show more than whitebread suburban nuclear families are awesome. https://twitter.com/saramg/status/759913175412150273
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Aug 4, 2016 02:11
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ImpAtom posted:Nationalism is dumb. Moving wouldn't change that. That doesn't mean I don't care about the politics because I live here and would prefer it not to be a shithole. And that's not what patriotism is either, it's a pretty good extremist example of it though!
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Aug 4, 2016 02:11
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DaveWoo posted:
They think Presidential Candidate Doesn't poo poo Own Pants For 11 Minutes is headline news. And they're right, sadly.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:12
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huffpo running with the "was the Iran money video Trump described classified?" angle
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Aug 4, 2016 02:12
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Yinlock posted:In this speech alone he has drifted off thinking about loving cereal twice. What is the usage here? Do you mean the verb or adverb(? adjective?)
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Aug 4, 2016 02:13
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This is why something like Brexit can't happen here.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:14
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Paradoxish posted:Patriotism and nationalism aren't really the same thing, but the problem is that there's like a millimeter thick line that divides the two. As far as I understand it: Patriotism: My country is great. Nationalism: My country is better than all others. the first can really, really easily slide into the second yeah
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Aug 4, 2016 02:14
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Luna Was Here posted:And that's not what patriotism is either, it's a pretty good extremist example of it though! That isn't extreme. It is literally what both political parties say on a regular basis and what was broadcast over the intercom at school when I was growing up. We broadcast ourselves as "the land of the free and the home of the brave" and other such things in our national anthem. This is the normal for us.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:14
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PhazonLink posted:What is the usage here? He listed off soap ads and cereal ads as ones he would rather see than anti-Trump ads while he watches TV. This afternoon it was a "Kellogg's ad" and tonight was "Special K."
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Aug 4, 2016 02:15
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ImpAtom posted:Nationalism is dumb. Moving wouldn't change that. That doesn't mean I don't care about the politics because I live here and would prefer it not to be a shithole. American patriotism was pretty much being happy about the fact that being an american is awesome and being proud of being awesome because we're all awesome together and that's what makes us awesome. That kind of patriotism rules since it's not about being better than anyone else or "right", it's that you're proud of your dumb country and want to chill with your neighbors since they're proud of their dumb country to so lets all be proud that we live in a dumb country together. Nationalism is what republicans and the Bush administration branded as patriotism though, and nationalism loving sucks.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:16
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Trabisnikof posted:It's amazing how much people have bought into talk radio narratives on the Clinton Foundation that the argument is "how much bad poo poo is this non-profit accused of doing without evidence" while ignoring all the good things it does. Just because a organization does good things does not mean it has permission to do bad things. That's a very unusual ethical argument. Like even if The Gates foundation saves thousands of lives their not then given permission to kill one child.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:16
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A Winner is Jew posted:American patriotism was pretty much being happy about the fact that being an american is awesome and being proud of being awesome because we're all awesome together and that's what makes us awesome. That kind of patriotism rules since it's not about being better than anyone else or "right", it's that you're proud of your dumb country and want to chill with your neighbors since they're proud of their dumb country to so lets all be proud that we live in a dumb country together. This is a better explanation yeah. Patriotism is strapping a million fireworks together and setting the resulting American Sparkle Bomb off in the middle of the street with other like-minded lunatics on July 4th because Fuckin A' USA USA USA Nationalism is never questioning your perfect country and thinking that any flaws are because of evil Others.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:19
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RZA Encryption posted:Did anything ever happen with that potentially imaginary woman that did the Melania/Michelle speech plagiarism? Is she real? No one knows or cares. First the DNC butchered Trump like a Christmas hog, then Trump started Trumping and the media smelled blood in the water. Melania's small potatoes aside from her twin potatoes which the whole world knows now are fairly impressive. Edit: Patriotism is the DNC, nationalism is the RNC.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:19
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A Winner is Jew posted:American patriotism was pretty much being happy about the fact that being an american is awesome and being proud of being awesome because we're all awesome together and that's what makes us awesome. That kind of patriotism rules since it's not about being better than anyone else or "right", it's that you're proud of your dumb country and want to chill with your neighbors since they're proud of their dumb country to so lets all be proud that we live in a dumb country together. I guess I don't see how "I am proud to be an American because Americans are inherently better and awesome" is meaningfully different. I would say "I'm proud to be an American because we do (x) thing worth being proud" but not in some inherent meaningless Americanism. The former sounds exactly to me like "we're better and right." YMMV but I don't think patriotism should be a default. I think it should be earned.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:19
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Compare the latter parts of the DNC with Rudy Guiliani's speech to see the difference between nationalism and patriotism.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:20
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Good news everyone,  it's time for the Libertarian Town Hall live on CNN! Soon you too can watch CNN implicitly validate yet another stupid as gently caress ideology by refusing to challenge its excesses.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:20
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Cythereal posted:No one knows or cares. First the DNC butchered Trump like a Christmas hog, then Trump started Trumping and the media smelled blood in the water. Melania's small potatoes aside from her twin potatoes which the whole world knows now are fairly impressive. I don't care about the Melania angle, I just want to see of there was a second instance of Trump inventing a fake person.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:22
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A Winner is Jew posted:American patriotism was pretty much being happy about the fact that being an american is awesome and being proud of being awesome because we're all awesome together and that's what makes us awesome. That kind of patriotism rules since it's not about being better than anyone else or "right", it's that you're proud of your dumb country and want to chill with your neighbors since they're proud of their dumb country to so lets all be proud that we live in a dumb country together. Are you seriously saying that patriotism used to be this great all inclusive thing back when the country was objectively more racist and less inclusive than it is today? I get what you're saying, but this absolutely reeks of the Republican idea that things were better way back when and let's just gloss over all the lovely stuff. I mean, I was a child of the 80s and 90s and had pretty reasonably formed political opinions by the time Dubya came along and I still find unrestrained patriotism outside of specific contexts like the 4th to be pretty creepy and weird. And being proud to be an American just because is practically the definition of nationalism. Being proud of things your country does is cool and good. I'm proud we went to the moon, even if intellectually I know it wasn't for great reasons. I feel good when we win Olympic metals. I don't just in general feel good about America because America is no different from anywhere else.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:24
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ImpAtom posted:I guess I don't see how "I am proud to be an American because Americans are inherently better and awesome" is meaningfully different. I would say "I'm proud to be an American because we do (x) thing worth being proud" but not in some inherent meaningless Americanism. The former sounds exactly to me like "we're better and right." YMMV but I don't think patriotism should be a default. I think it should be earned. It's not about being better than anyone, or being perfect and never questioning poo poo though which is what a lot of people are missing. Like, it's not about being a fan of a team and thinking they're better than anyone else but more just enjoying the poo poo out of the sport.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:24
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WampaLord posted:He listed off soap ads and cereal ads as ones he would rather see than anti-Trump ads while he watches TV. So he wants to have sex with Special K. Got it.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:24
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Whats really funny is Trump had shut the gently caress up this week that Iran thing could have been a dagger Highly doubt it. It was sheer Republican spin, and spin that Hillary really have much to do with apart from getting the ball rolling before she left the SoS job. Republicans decided try to spin it as "OH HOSTAGE RANSOM" when it was agreed to be paid /before/ the whole thing happened. Trump today had a rambling, but otherwise boring day press wise.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:24
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Quorum posted:Good news everyone, On one hand, I would love the Libertarian party getting 15% and cementing the inevitable split of the GOP On the other hand, the GOP doesn't really need a push
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Aug 4, 2016 02:24
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Quorum posted:Good news everyone, After my shot of Trump the old stuff like worshiping the free market just seems tame. Yes yes, the gold standard will solve all problems as the world unites under the banner of the incorruptible Captains Of Industry  whatever. Do you at least have an accusation that Hillary Clinton did 9/11 and loves ISIS a lot?
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Aug 4, 2016 02:25
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A Winner is Jew posted:It's not about being better than anyone, or being perfect and never questioning poo poo though which is what a lot of people are missing. Like, it's not about being a fan of a team and thinking they're better than anyone else but more just enjoying the poo poo out of the sport. I'm from Philadelphia so you sports team analogy falls completely flat for me. 
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Aug 4, 2016 02:25
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Quorum posted:Good news everyone, How long until CNN is finally run into the ground by Jeff Zucker?
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Aug 4, 2016 02:25
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 quote:Hillary hit hard sounds like a great time!
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Aug 4, 2016 02:25
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ImpAtom posted:I'm from Philadelphia so you sports team analogy falls completely flat for me. Look, imagine the batteries are ICBMs
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Aug 4, 2016 02:26
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ImpAtom posted:That isn't extreme. It is literally what both political parties say on a regular basis and what was broadcast over the intercom at school when I was growing up. We broadcast ourselves as "the land of the free and the home of the brave" and other such things in our national anthem. This is the normal for us. Ok, I can understand the sentiment behind the school thing (the pledge being pretty ingrained into every kid's head from age 5 onward is really friggin weird) but having pride in your country isn't a bad thing. Most people don't take it as a "We are the best country in the world jesus bless our hearts" thing. Most people just sorta see Patriotism as a "This country is my home and I wouldn't call any other place home because of it" because of the experiences they have had in their time in that country. Most people recognize that the United States has a lot of hosed poo poo about it, but what country doesn't? There's pros and cons to every country everywhere and yet most people are still probably proud of the place they call home. If you want to stand aside and call me stupid for shouting like a dumb lunatic while lighting fireworks off on fourth of july or for taking part of USA chants or for flying a flag on our house then that's your right, just as much as it is mine. That's just my takeaway from it, always has been always will be.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:26
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axeil posted:How long until CNN is finally run into the ground by Jeff Zucker? Their ratings are gonna tank hard once the election is over and they no longer have Trump to sustain them, so probably then.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:27
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Damnit, put Canada in there so I can feel better than you. 
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Aug 4, 2016 02:28
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Weird - I saw that poll today but it had Sweden on it as well. Wonder why its not here. If you're curious the numbers for Sweden were slightly (like 3-5 in the better place) better than the UK.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:28
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Koalas March posted:I think you meant to say Liz Lemon quotes over Jeb. Ain't no party like a Jeb Bush party cause a Jeb Bush party is mandatory. Please clap.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:29
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Mr Hootington posted:
I would have beaned that stupid smug driver
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Aug 4, 2016 02:29
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Mr Hootington posted:
 quote:“Probably a month ago we joked around about it, and at the beginning of last week we decided to do it,” Julin said. We started on it Wednesday night.” "ha ha ya know I was just floating it by the boys and we were like "why not turn authoritarian calls to lock up political opponents into a festive activity for children?" haha we love to joke here and definitely aren't living out some weird fantasy. Just kidding around with the lads as we strap a candidate's likeness in a cage of barbed wire and throw things at it. What silly folks we are!" Luna Was Here posted:Ok, I can understand the sentiment behind the school thing (the pledge being pretty ingrained into every kid's head from age 5 onward is really friggin weird) but having pride in your country isn't a bad thing. Most people don't take it as a "We are the best country in the world jesus bless our hearts" thing. Most people just sorta see Patriotism as a "This country is my home and I wouldn't call any other place home because of it" because of the experiences they have had in their time in that country. Most people recognize that the United States has a lot of hosed poo poo about it, but what country doesn't? There's pros and cons to every country everywhere and yet most people are still probably proud of the place they call home. If you want to stand aside and call me stupid for shouting like a dumb lunatic while lighting fireworks off on fourth of july or for taking part of USA chants or for flying a flag on our house then that's your right, just as much as it is mine. That's just my takeaway from it, always has been always will be. Yeah but the "Love our country or get out" you gave is a good example of the patriotism-nationalism slide. Nobody's going to blame you for having a good time, but getting aggressive about it is where that line is.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:31
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I think the problem with patriotism is that the nation is itself a pretty immoral and damaging concept. Yeah, I think patriotism can be benign, but the fact that all patriotism takes its root from a problematic concept is troubling. But I mean, hell, I used to think Sports fandom was benign until I saw what happened at Penn State and Baylor. Any time we let people take meaning from their membership to institutions, they lose their critical ability towards that institution. To them, any criticism of the institution becomes a criticism of their person.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:33
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Paradoxish posted:Are you seriously saying that patriotism used to be this great all inclusive thing back when the country was objectively more racist and less inclusive than it is today? I get what you're saying, but this absolutely reeks of the Republican idea that things were better way back when and let's just gloss over all the lovely stuff. I mean, I was a child of the 80s and 90s and had pretty reasonably formed political opinions by the time Dubya came along and I still find unrestrained patriotism outside of specific contexts like the 4th to be pretty creepy and weird. It's more about loving your country than thinking it's #1. Like when I travel overseas I have no problem saying I'm from the US with a sense of pride while still wanting to go visit and experience all that the country I'm visiting has to offer because other countries have cool poo poo that they should be proud of. That's patriotism. Nationalism would be visiting other countries and being an obnoxious as gently caress american that constantly belittles the one you're visiting.
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Aug 4, 2016 02:34
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