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Endorph posted:rean actually grows as a character and also demonstrates traits that explain why he is the protagonist and the leader. he's got a good head on his shoulders, is diplomatic, knows how to work with the people around him, etc. 
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Aug 4, 2016 03:15
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Endorph posted:rean actually grows as a character and also demonstrates traits that explain why he is the protagonist and the leader. he's got a good head on his shoulders, is diplomatic, knows how to work with the people around him, etc. Rean is generic good hearted everyone likes him leader of the pack mysterious past protagonist. And he looks stupid 
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Aug 4, 2016 03:17
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Cake Attack posted:call me hosed, but i think rean and estelle are both good protagonists in different ways for their respective stories
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Aug 4, 2016 03:17
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Dude is sitting here talkin about Estelle sucks because shes in everyone's shadow until she isn't when thats literally her character arc, is stepping out of her father and her brother's shadows and making a name for herself.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:17
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Overbite posted:Rean is generic good hearted everyone likes him leader of the pack mysterious past protagonist. And he looks stupid Zaggitz posted:Dude is sitting here talkin about Estelle sucks because shes in everyone's shadow until she isn't when thats literally her character arc, is stepping out of her father and her brother's shadows and making a name for herself.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:18
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realistically i can see that lots of estelle's involvement in the main plot is because people she cares about are tied into it, and not because she's involved personally, but that's kind of the point? she wants to become like her mother, who protected her when she needed it. which also ties into how she is the main character thematically, since lots of the cast and villains are defined by becoming self-destructive in the face of personal tragedy, while she's using her personal tragedy as a source of strength. also what zaggitz said.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:21
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Zaggitz posted:Dude is sitting here talkin about Estelle sucks because shes in everyone's shadow until she isn't when thats literally her character arc, is stepping out of her father and her brother's shadows and making a name for herself. Oh I forgot, I gave a pass on the Estelle/Joshua thing because Joshua felt more like a foreign exchange student than a brother but this Rean/Elise thing is no good
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Aug 4, 2016 03:21
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Overbite posted:Oh I forgot, I gave a pass on the Estelle/Joshua thing because Joshua felt more like a foreign exchange student than a brother but this Rean/Elise thing is no good
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Aug 4, 2016 03:23
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Overbite posted:Oh I forgot, I gave a pass on the Estelle/Joshua thing because Joshua felt more like a foreign exchange student than a brother but this Rean/Elise thing is no good Unless something changes in CSII, nothing really comes of it, thankfully.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:25
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Aug 4, 2016 03:28
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i don't like the OVA but that GIF is highly entertaining and exploitable
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Aug 4, 2016 03:28
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Cake Attack posted:i don't like the OVA but that GIF is highly entertaining and exploitable yeah, the ova is garbo but that gif is hilarious also i haven't played cold steel yet, i love estelle she's probably one of my favorite jrpg protags but lol at everybody freaking out because endorph said she likes rean more. saying "i think this character is better written and developed in the story" is different from slur saying "i'm angry because they didn't say that joshua was the strongest and they said he did a dumb thing"
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Aug 4, 2016 03:33
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The Colonel posted:yeah, the ova is garbo but that gif is hilarious it also has a killer soundtrack it's version of sophisticated fight would be the best if it weren't literally only 20 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFGu4-InoNk
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Aug 4, 2016 03:34
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Cake Attack posted:it also has a killer soundtrack it's got one of my favorite arrangements of gin no ishi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJNnK2HL4vs
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Aug 4, 2016 03:38
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The OVA is a great example of actually bad Estelle writing because holy crap does it ruin a shitload of great SC Estelle moments by making Joshua appear in scenes he wasn't even in during the game to steal the spotlight.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:45
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i stopped watching the ova a few minutes after joshua suddenly came swinging in from nowhere to save the day
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Aug 4, 2016 03:58
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Well this just got all sorts of awkward.... Considering Rean's story came out like a decade ish after Estelle's I wouldn't be surprised. I'd say Rean and Lloyd have more similarities than Estelle. It'd be nice if the protagonist of the next arc would be a female again, but I still like Rean and Lloyd, but it's hard to objectively evaluate them (implying objectivity is possible lol) Estelle's story was generally more down to earth, more about personal things of sorts (Rean and Lloyd try as well, but their circumstances are a fair bit different if I must say so myself), and Estelle herself is more like....she's more of a normal person, as compared to Rean and his shenanigans going on. Lloyd is comparatively normal as well, but there have been a fair number of people pointing out some of his "Sue" traits, debatably. Estelle's "Sue" traits are less prominent due to her role in the story (shared spotlight with Joshua in FC, etc. I could go on but yeah) It's also partly because of the whole "Bonding Events" shenanigans, less so for Lloyd, but that's uh...another matter. (By which I mean the girls all like Rean/Lloyd) The irony is that, when it comes down to it, the interaction between the party members is still fairly similar. I think, anyway. All in all it's really hard to think about things, but what can be said.... Partly speaking, the cast does kind of get younger from Liberl>Crossbell>Erebonia, so it does feel a bit more, "unbelievable", of sorts. But it's really tricky and complicated. ------ For the story and gameplay...well story first. Cold Steel's school system is generally a hit or miss, but in general I'd say it's not really a bad thing. Thing is, compared to Sky FC and Zero, CS has more chapters, so it does take a long time to build things up. Also, the nature of the games is that they tend to "WHAM' near the end-ish of the story, so the earlier parts are less plot critical. Sky FC was quite linearized as well (and SC as well generally), so actually compared to CS the railroading isn't that bad now is it? Eh. Gameplay wise, I'm not sure what to say. It is true that CS is very easy, even on Nightmare though (game should really let you change difficulty mid game really) MisawaMahoKodomo fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 11:48
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I've only played about half of he first trails in the sky game but it's weird how Estelle has been completely competent at everything she does for what seems to be years at this point but every time she completes a task everyone laughs and says "thanks you dumbass!" or some equivalent.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:18
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It's probably just the translation but I really hate how Rean starts his replies to so many people with "Haha" or some sort of laughing-equivalent. It's one of those things that once I noticed it I couldn't unsee it when it pops up in pretty much every conversation Rean is involved in.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:23
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Estelle is a teenager trying to find herself and her place in the world. She lacks real confidence but makes up for it with bluster. Rean is calm and composed and confident in his abilities which is why he makes a good leader. He's basically the commander of a paramilitary unit. I don't think either is necessarily written better than the other, although I do think the format of Cold Steel lends itself to character development better than Sky. Personally I like Estelle more but it's not really controversial to feel that Rean is a more realized character.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:23
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Regarding Rean and his "verbal" uh...whatever it's called. This kind of thing happens more than you'd expect in media in general. As for why, I honestly have no clue since I didn't notice it at the very least...though sometimes these things just happen. As for me, I find it hard to really say as well. Unlike some other games (debatable but oh well), I'd say that Estelle is in a rather weird situation. She's competent, yet not really so. On the overall side of things, she is a prodigy of sorts (then again you could argue plenty of characters are as well). It's mostly true that the plot does kind of shove it into your face that Estelle is flawed and all that, too much I would say. I myself can't memorize the plot word for word, so it's hard to evaluate her decision making and actions for that regard. The main thing I find is that things are mostly ("mostly") suppressed because of the "hypercompetency" of all the characters in general. (E.G. Joshua in FC) MisawaMahoKodomo fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 14:54
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In Training posted:I've only played about half of he first trails in the sky game but it's weird how Estelle has been completely competent at everything she does for what seems to be years at this point but every time she completes a task everyone laughs and says "thanks you dumbass!" or some equivalent. Estelle initially comes across as a bit airheaded, especially in the early prologue where her attention is prone to lapsing at a moment's noti...Stregas!!! (like during the part where they earn their junior bracer badge) And Joshua is pretty fond of occasionally letting nuggets of info slip about Estelle doing stupid stuff, like nearly burning down the house with her cooking or accidentally glueing her hand to her face. And then there's her tendency to doze off during Sunday School all the time. These things have earned Estelle a reputation in Rolent as being a bit of a doofus, although a universally loved one. The contrast is kinda enlarged because Joshua, a well-spoken and intellectual bookworm, is around her all the time. Canonically, the reason Estelle doesn't screw up too often is because Joshua's usually there to think things through and stop her if she's about to run head-long into something she shouldn't. (like the little boxes in Rolent's sewer at the start of the prologue) It's not so much the fact that Estelle's dumb, but she does have the tendency to act first and think things through later. (again a contrast with Joshua who hard barely ever does anything on impulse and who is prone to overthinking things) And Estelle starts out VERY sheltered and naïve which (incoming FC prologue spoiler) initially allows Josette to play her like a fiddle. So Estelle's not dumb, but compared to Cassius, Scherazard and Joshua she has very little life experience and it initially shows.
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Aug 4, 2016 16:40
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The worst part about Estelle in FC is how much of it she spends being inordinately bad at pattern recognition. "You know my dad?!"  Yes, Estelle. Everybody knows your dad. This is the seventeenth time you have had this exact conversation for gently caress's sake, you are long past the point where you should be surprised by it.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:04
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Wonderslug posted:The worst part about Estelle in FC is how much of it she spends being inordinately bad at pattern recognition. That's not something I had a problem with. Like, she knew her dad was important but part of her wonder is realizing how far that really goes. Like, yeah, some people know my dad but it turns out everyone actually knows him.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:06
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The first five or six times, sure, but when every geopolitically connected person you meet at every stop along your Bracer road trip knows your dad, it's time to extrapolate a little. It feels less like wonder and more like denial to me, and you could certainly spin it that way in light of SC's opening, but if that was the intent I don't think it was well conveyed.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:27
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Wonderslug posted:The first five or six times, sure, but when every geopolitically connected person you meet at every stop along your Bracer road trip knows your dad, it's time to extrapolate a little. It feels less like wonder and more like denial to me, and you could certainly spin it that way in light of SC's opening, but if that was the intent I don't think it was well conveyed. I just got the sense it was more "Jesus Christ, you too?"
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Aug 4, 2016 17:31
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Wonderslug posted:It feels less like wonder and more like denial to me, and you could certainly spin it that way in light of SC's opening, but if that was the intent I don't think it was well conveyed. Well, there is a bit of a perception gap between "beloved national hero" and "goofball dad"....
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Aug 4, 2016 17:52
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Wonderslug posted:The first five or six times, sure, but when every geopolitically connected person you meet at every stop along your Bracer road trip knows your dad, it's time to extrapolate a little. It feels less like wonder and more like denial to me, and you could certainly spin it that way in light of SC's opening, but if that was the intent I don't think it was well conveyed.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:54
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You guys have to remember that while Estelle knew her dad was a Bracer and a former military officer, her perception of him (probably encouraged by him) was that he was just her dad. She says right from the getgo "I don't get why Schera has so much respect for him" and then when she leaves the confines of Rolent, suddenly everyone is mentioning her dad and she's totally baffled because why the hell is her dad so famous?! By the end of FC, she starts to piece it together because people start explaining that her dad is actually an international badass.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:08
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Endorph posted:Isn't there an exchange where she outright goes 'Is there anyone who doesn't know my dad?' quote:*sigh* I swear... It's hardly worth even getting upset about anymore. Royal Army soldier, 'hidden' hero, master swordsman, S-rank bracer... If he's really so damned awesome, then it sure would be nice if he'd come back and take care of THIS case
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Aug 4, 2016 18:19
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There's one thing missing from that list of Cassius' achievements, [massive spoiler for Trails SC] personal friend and former sparring partner of the ancient dragon of Liberl
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Aug 4, 2016 18:45
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I have to admit that I kind of don't like Cassius much. He's a lot too much tell, not enough show. Having everyone talk about how SUPER-AWESOME a character is burns me out especially if they only show up to do something 'awesome' at the very end to devalue the people I'm actually playing as.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:47
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I'm not saying she doesn't get there, I'm just saying it takes more iterations than feels necessary from either a writing or a character development perspective.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:55
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When did Cassius actually do anything on-screen besides beating up the final boss of FC? I think he did other stuff but I really don't remember any.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:57
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ImpAtom posted:I have to admit that I kind of don't like Cassius much. He's a lot too much tell, not enough show. Having everyone talk about how SUPER-AWESOME a character is burns me out especially if they only show up to do something 'awesome' at the very end to devalue the people I'm actually playing as. its something i was happy to see demistified in Cold Steel. In Liberl Cassius is an unmatched unparraleled god because hes a national hero and The Divine Blade. In Erebonia he's a respected military mind but is revealed to simply be one of several Divine Blades, which is just a title handled to anyone who masters the eight leaves style and Victor Arseid straight up talks about how he and Cassius have never bested eachother in battle, only ever drawed. It's remarkably true to life in how nationalism tends to pervert whatever side of the story you historically fall on.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:11
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ImpAtom posted:I have to admit that I kind of don't like Cassius much. He's a lot too much tell, not enough show. Having everyone talk about how SUPER-AWESOME a character is burns me out especially if they only show up to do something 'awesome' at the very end to devalue the people I'm actually playing as. But he's supposed to be tell and not show, because Trails in the Sky is Estelle's story, not his. He had his story. He had dozens of stories and TitS is not one of them.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:12
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Amppelix posted:When did Cassius actually do anything on-screen besides beating up the final boss of FC? I think he did other stuff but I really don't remember any. I guess he stepped in to help out Joshua and Estelle when rescuing Pat and Luke (might have those names wrong...) right at the beginning of FC, and if you really want to stretch the definition of 'on-screen' then I suppose he technically was the one who sent Zane to help out. Pretty much everything else sans the final boss bit was indirect - Morgan/Richard/everyone talking about him, receiving that package that was meant for him, etc.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:14
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Amppelix posted:When did Cassius actually do anything on-screen besides beating up the final boss of FC? I think he did other stuff but I really don't remember any. There's a scene in 3rd covering what he did during FC.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:15
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Some Numbers posted:But he's supposed to be tell and not show, because Trails in the Sky is Estelle's story, not his. He had his story. He had dozens of stories and TitS is not one of them. That doesn't really matter when every other person in the plot goes "Wow, you're Estelle huh, your dad is so awesome!"
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Aug 4, 2016 19:17
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Zaggitz posted:its something i was happy to see demistified in Cold Steel. In Liberl Cassius is an unmatched unparraleled god because hes a national hero and The Divine Blade. In Erebonia he's a respected military mind but is revealed to simply be one of several Divine Blades, which is just a title handled to anyone who masters the eight leaves style and Victor Arseid straight up talks about how he and Cassius have never bested eachother in battle, only ever drawed. Was it Cassius? I thought it was Rean's master and Victor that dueled to a standstill.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:21
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