Legal Questions: do not communicate with the demon at all except through your genie

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Legal Questions: do not communicate with the demon at all except through your genie

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FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

_areaman posted:

No, we don't want to sell drugs. We just want to sell things using a different ecommerce model. Whereas every company tracks and analyzes you, we do no such thing.

The customer doesn't care. See for comparison Amazon, Facebook, etc.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 11:52

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# ? May 16, 2024 05:52

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Also rule 1 of business: sell things that your customers want to come back and buy again.

Repeat custom is the difference between having a business and being a random guy trying to flog stuff. Kill your own customer data and you don't have a business.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 12:07

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

I bought this $100.00 'water pipe' shaped like a mushroom from your online store, but now I want a refund... What do you mean, you don't have a record of my transaction?

# ? Aug 4, 2016 15:18

_areaman: Oct 28, 2009

The criticism makes sense, but the whole point of this and any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions. The payments will only be as traceable as the customer allows, because we will only accept bitcoins. Revenue will be logged, but dates and times of transactions will be stored generally ("The week of July 1..."), and customer information will not be stored. We have a system developed for warranties and returns.

This is a unique business model, an experiment, and it will be selling to people who care deeply about their privacy. It could fail, and that's fine. I am taking a contrarian view on normal ecommerce practices, and think a subset of the population will be interested in a radically different model.

My concerns are if wiping customer information is a problem. Apparently it's not.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 16:10

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

_areaman posted:

The criticism makes sense, but the whole point of this and any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions. The payments will only be as traceable as the customer allows, because we will only accept bitcoins. Revenue will be logged, but dates and times of transactions will be stored generally ("The week of July 1..."), and customer information will not be stored. We have a system developed for warranties and returns.

This is a unique business model, an experiment, and it will be selling to people who care deeply about their privacy. It could fail, and that's fine. I am taking a contrarian view on normal ecommerce practices, and think a subset of the population will be interested in a radically different model.

My concerns are if wiping customer information is a problem. Apparently it's not.

Dear god.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 16:13

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

You should consult an attorney about this. Not this thread. A business law attorney who does formations and e-commerce would be my recommendation.

Insurance companies may not like your model either.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 16:32

Chasiubao: Apr 2, 2010

_areaman posted:

No, we don't want to sell drugs.

_areaman posted:

The criticism makes sense, but the whole point of this and any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions. The payments will only be as traceable as the customer allows, because we will only accept bitcoins.

Sure you don't :rolleyes:

# ? Aug 4, 2016 17:21

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

_areaman posted:

The criticism makes sense, but the whole point of this and any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions. The payments will only be as traceable as the customer allows, because we will only accept bitcoins. Revenue will be logged, but dates and times of transactions will be stored generally ("The week of July 1..."), and customer information will not be stored. We have a system developed for warranties and returns.

This is a unique business model, an experiment, and it will be selling to people who care deeply about their privacy. It could fail, and that's fine. I am taking a contrarian view on normal ecommerce practices, and think a subset of the population will be interested in a radically different model.

My concerns are if wiping customer information is a problem. Apparently it's not.

it could not be more obvious you're supplying goods that might not be illegal themselves but are definitely for use in illegal activities

# ? Aug 4, 2016 17:31

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

Bitcoins are only useful for criminals and only solve problems criminals have. I agree that you need to get proper counsel before you go forward with any bitcoin business. Just getting banks to do business with you will be a challenge enough because of the money laundering implications.

Also, you're absolutely going to get used frequently for money laundering if you accept bitcoin only. You better do as much due diligence to cover your own rear end or you'll end up in jail like oh so many bitcoin celebrities.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 17:36

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Look, goddamnit, don't run the good ones off right out of the gate!

# ? Aug 4, 2016 17:54

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

_areaman posted:

Tell me more about the market of people who 'care deeply about their privacy'? Also tell me more about your 'contrarian views.' Thanks in advance.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 17:55

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

What are you selling? Just answer this question

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:03

xxEightxx: Mar 5, 2010; Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!; Salad Prong

blarzgh posted:

Look, goddamnit, don't run the good ones off right out of the gate!

Not empty quoting

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:08

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

EwokEntourage posted:

What are you selling? Just answer this question

Goods. With "enhanced privacy".

Just like Uber, we're disrupting the business practice of "keeping records" and "not dealing exclusively with money launderers"

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:09

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Now we know why he can't pay for legal advice I guess.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:18

xxEightxx: Mar 5, 2010; Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!; Salad Prong

terrorist ambulance posted:

Goods. With "enhanced privacy".

Just like Uber, we're disrupting the business practice of "keeping records" and "not dealing exclusively with money launderers"

Does uber have some side business I don't know about

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:44

Chasiubao: Apr 2, 2010

euphronius posted:

Now we know why he can't pay for legal advice I guess.

Wait lawyers don't take bitcoins?

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:56

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

blarzgh posted:

Look, goddamnit, don't run the good ones off right out of the gate!

I'm hoping for a response to see how he's different than the rest.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 19:20

bkerlee: Aug 3, 2006; Slimy and gross.

Look through his past posts.

Nope, this will be a good business. Not three kids in a trenchcoat.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 19:54

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

xxEightxx posted:

Does uber have some side business I don't know about

Yes actually, it's called "lease people camries for 160 dollars a week"

quote:

Currently, I am in a situation that I'm not sure to keep going with or should walk away.

6 months ago I signed up with the Uber leasing program and the lease is through Bama Commercial leasing out of Minneapolis, Minnesota
and It is $160 a week to lease a 2016 Toyota Camry SE. The terms for the lease are a background check and a credit check plus a 1 time non refundable down payment for $200. This covered the tag and registration.

Before making the down payment, I had to have just a basic PIP insurance in order to be able to drive the car off the lot. The first insurance I called was geico who I had been a good customer for 7 years. The girl on the phone asked me if I was going to be using the car for commercial use and I told them yes that I was becoming an uber driver and I got a new vehicle through Bama commercial leasing and that I just needed a basic insurance because uber provides a liability insurance when the uber app is on. Geico then told me they would put me on hold and transfer me to their commercial department which is then when their supervisor told me they do not have an insurance coverage for uber drivers and that they must assume that any vehicle I try to insure will be for ubering so they would have to discontinue business with me altogether.

I then called up progressive to try to get insurance but this time didn't tell them I was going to uber and I was able to get insured will a full coverage policy. I was able to drive the car off the lot from the north Miami Toyota dealership who is the only dealership to provide such a leasing program at the time. That is when I started working for uber because I now had a vehicle.

I then received a notice in the mail from progressive 3 months later stating that they will be dropping my insurance in a month on May 28, because they found out I was an uber driver through acknowledgement of Bama Commercial leasing and they are associated with leasing to uber drivers. So as the date got closer, I was trying to find a proper insurance so I could continue driving for uber and driving my new car. I was only able to find two insurance providers, one I forgot the name of and was the most expensive of the two and the other one was called American Global insurance that provided a uber policy for about $350 a month but only covered liability, not collision. I was then informed by Bama leasing that they are aware that my insurance was being dropped as of May 28, 2016, and that they can provide me a collision insurance until I am able to find an insurance provider because if I didn't have any type of insurance then I wouldn't be able to drive the vehicle.

So the total would have been roughly $1200 a month to drive the new car with the proper insurances. But at the time I didn't have the money, I kept pushing off getting the proper insurance and also pushing off working for uber because I didn't want to be driving people around illegally. And the reasons why I didn't just give the car back was because I caused some minor Damage to the rear bumper that I would have had to pay for. So I was in a jam, as the weeks went by, fees started to add up. I finally told myself I'm going to just have to take a chance and grind out the hours and knock the payments even if I didn't have insurance because I was behind two months on the vehicle.

I then left my friends house and noticed my car was gone. Unfortunately, it was repossessed and the total that I owe is $2400 because of the 8 weeks of non payment that included the collision insurance plus a $635 repossession fee. So I'm wondering, should I try to manage to get the car back or is this a scam from the beginning? Is there an easier option? What will happen to my credit? Please, anything helps.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 20:37

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

God bless Uber, American company for good.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 20:39

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Also to go back to the original question, the reason deleting customer records after doing a non-cash transaction differs from a physical cash transaction is specifically because the latter involves cash. It's not the keeping of records that differentiates other payment methods from cash, it's that non-cash payment methods are required by law to keep up with more stringent record requirements because there isn't the assurance of a physical exchange of currency. And even brick and mortar cash-based businesses print and keep receipts or at least log cash transactions; you might not get a receipt for buying beef jerky at a convenience store, but the POS system still logs that it was sold and for how much. If a business didn't keep these records, it would be almost impossible for them to stay in business, and if these records are kept in any form they are accessible to law enforcement and tax officials in some capacity.

So beyond the general advice of getting a commercial lawyer who specializes in this, I would say that conducting any business where you deliberately destroy records of said business is going to not work out so well.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 20:56

Chasiubao: Apr 2, 2010

Mucilaginous posted:

Look through his past posts.

Nope, this will be a good business. Not three kids in a trenchcoat.

It's just one lovely get rich quick scheme after another :smith:

# ? Aug 4, 2016 21:21

Guy Axlerod: Dec 29, 2008

terrorist ambulance posted:

Goods. With "enhanced privacy".

Just like Uber, we're disrupting the business practice of "keeping records" and "not dealing exclusively with money launderers"

Dildos? Incontinence products? Embarrassing creams for embarrassing rashes?

# ? Aug 4, 2016 21:27

Konstantin: Jun 20, 2005; And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

My guess is on various types of goods with clear and prominent statements saying "not for human consumption."

# ? Aug 4, 2016 21:34

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

_areaman posted:

I want to take a board game, develop it online, and charge money for it. I don't want to pay a dime to the company that produces the board game. I know companies can get away with doing this if they make some changes.

...

I wish to make the bare minimum changes necessary in order to replicate the game online.

_areaman posted:

Would it be legal to create software that accessed a person's account data, and displayed it in a more useful format, and profit from that software?

There is a website that has very important data for many people. It is not mobile optimized. They do not have a public API. I want to build an app that provides access to that data.

_areaman posted:

They could ban a person who uses the software, but is creating and profiting from software that facilitates users to break the ToS themselves opening my company up to legal action?

# ? Aug 4, 2016 21:46

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

blarzgh posted:

When did people get too lazy to go out and slang drugs

# ? Aug 4, 2016 22:20

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Is it fine to store a myriad of geography pictures you find from various countries off of panoramio for reference on your drive?

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Aug 4, 2016

# ? Aug 4, 2016 23:40

GamingHyena: Jul 25, 2003; Devil's Advocate

_areaman posted:

The criticism makes sense, but the whole point of this and any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions. The payments will only be as traceable as the customer allows, because we will only accept bitcoins. Revenue will be logged, but dates and times of transactions will be stored generally ("The week of July 1..."), and customer information will not be stored. We have a system developed for warranties and returns.

This is a unique business model, an experiment, and it will be selling to people who care deeply about their privacy. It could fail, and that's fine. I am taking a contrarian view on normal ecommerce practices, and think a subset of the population will be interested in a radically different model.

My concerns are if wiping customer information is a problem. Apparently it's not.

"WE WILL DESTROY ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS TRANSACTION!" is right up there with "NO VISIBLE HUMAN MEAT IN PRODUCT!" in terms of guarantees only sketchy businesses would ever need to give. Now I'm sure you're just an honest and trustworthy businessman probably selling Pop Tarts and oatmeal online and are just trying to corner that lucrative privacy-oriented breakfast market, but your lack of records can come back to haunt you in case you should ever need to fight money laundering charges or IRS tax audits. Also, should law enforcement ever launch an investigation into you sending delicious breakfast treats across state lines, you could face additional charges of tampering or destroying evidence.

GamingHyena fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 4, 2016

# ? Aug 4, 2016 23:43

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

_areaman posted:

whole point of [...] any business is to be honest and trustworthy though the business's actions.

Wrong. The point of a business is to make money. It's hard to do so without being honest and trustworthy but... Yeah.

Have you talked to an accountant about this plan? They might have some issues with the lack of record keeping.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 23:58

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

FrozenVent posted:

Wrong. The point of a business is to make money. It's hard to do so without being honest and trustworthy but... Yeah.

Huh? Wha?

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:05

Chasiubao: Apr 2, 2010

Konstantin posted:

My guess is on various types of goods with clear and prominent statements saying "not for human consumption."

"I know the shady Chinese research chemicals I sold that guy killed him, but he signed a form in triplicate promising me that he would only use them for research!"

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:07

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Grouchio posted:

Is it fine to store a myriad of geography pictures you find from various countries off of panoramio for reference on your drive?

Are they pictures of famous landmarks and/or are you brown?

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:24

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

EwokEntourage posted:

Are they pictures of famous landmarks and/or are you brown?

They sometimes are, usually they're pictures of fields, deserts, coasts, mountains, etc. I do not intend to use them for any projects/commercial use. Also all of them happen to also show up on Google Earth, which says you can print them for non-commerical use. So I don't know. And no I'm very pale.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:34

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Grouchio posted:

They sometimes are, usually they're pictures of fields, deserts, coasts, mountains, etc. I do not intend to use them for any projects/commercial use. Also all of them happen to also show up on Google Earth, which says you can print them for non-commerical use. So I don't know. And no I'm very pale.

quote:

Can I use, copy, print or download a photo from Panoramio?

To use, copy, print, or download a photo from Panoramio, you must get explicit permission from the photographer. To contact a photographer to ask for permission, add a comment to the photo or use the Private messaging feature. The owner of the photo will receive an email with your comment and can contact you back.

tho I doubt you'll get caught, and I doubt anyone would pursue action against you if you don't do anything with them but look at them

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:44

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

EwokEntourage posted:

tho I doubt you'll get caught, and I doubt anyone would pursue action against you if you don't do anything with them but look at them

Does it count as illegal downloading then and not fair use?

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Aug 5, 2016

# ? Aug 5, 2016 00:49

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

EwokEntourage posted:

When did people get too lazy to go out and slang drugs

When God invented the internet.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 01:28

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

I went and deleted all of those panoramia photos I found to be safe. Where would be some good places to legally archive such images from?

# ? Aug 5, 2016 01:35

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Grouchio posted:

I went and deleted all of those panoramia photos I found to be safe. Where would be some good places to legally archive such images from?

Well, you have to get permission to download them, then you could store them anywhere you wanted to and were allowed to store images

is there a reason you think someone is going to come after you for this?

# ? Aug 5, 2016 02:10

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# ? May 16, 2024 05:52

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

EwokEntourage posted:

Well, you have to get permission to download them, then you could store them anywhere you wanted to and were allowed to store images

is there a reason you think someone is going to come after you for this?

It could tamper with my qualifications for CIA analysis applications in a few years time, since I hadn't unintentionally illegally downloaded :files: for over a year, and that this could accidentally reset that time period.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 02:20

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