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RiotGearEpsilon posted:I'm gonna level with you: I don't actually have a strong opinion about the TPP. I just like formulating arguments for things. I apologize for wasting your time; you showed up with actual data and I have nothing that can match that. Thanks for being honest. I enjoy arguing too, but if someone's got numbers and I don't I'll back down. poo poo, look at the discussion we had in this thread a few months ago about my (terrible) idea for some sort of technocracy where there are no elections and bureaucrats rule. People jumped all over me on that and I saw how laughably dumb my idea was and dropped it. 
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Aug 4, 2016 20:11
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:lol, I grew up in a staunchly democratic home. You aren't as pure as him. He's Noam Chomsky and your nametag shows that you're a flip flopper.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:11
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Noam Chomsky posted:Pretty typical array of posters - PTD, Zoux, BI NOW GAY LATER, a few others - that come out hard for: trade agreements, anything Hillary related, the DNC, and against anyone who talks too mean about Republicans. Those people drank the democratic kool-aid hard and can't handle anyone saying bad things about their grandma
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Aug 4, 2016 20:12
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axeil posted:Yeah I mean look at me. I'm agreeing with the pro-TPP people but get us started on banking and finance discussions and we'll be on completely different sides. Forums poster axeil, forums poster axeil, please report to the D&D reeducation thread for processing.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:13
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a shameful boehner posted:
I didn't check, but I'm pretty sure the mechanism is trade retaliation just like with other forbidden trade practices. TPP is the first free trade treaty to treat labor and environmental costs as real costs and failure to enforce those costs is a forbidden subsidy. So for example what would happen is say, US rubber belt makers will complain to the US trade rep that the rubber belt makers in Laos are cheating by not enforcing waste water laws, the US brings it up in trade arbitration and a tarriff is set that makes it no longer worth while to cut that corner. This is a well used mechanism for other complex trade relationships, so once again, not perfect but still groundbreaking.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:13
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Taerkar posted:You aren't as pure as him. He's Noam Chomsky and your nametag shows that you're a flip flopper. lol Reason posted:Those people drank the democratic kool-aid hard and can't handle anyone saying bad things about their grandma I disagree with Hillary on several issues. I disagree with the DNC on a number of issues. There are ways to have those disagreements that are productive, and then there's dumb poo poo like what certain people ITT like to post.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:13
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axeil posted:Thanks for being honest. I enjoy arguing too, but if someone's got numbers and I don't I'll back down. if those are the kind of government ideas that interest you, you should read up on robin hanson's concept of Futarchy
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Aug 4, 2016 20:13
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A Winner is Jew posted:Forums poster axeil, forums poster axeil, please report to the D&D reeducation thread for processing. Oh poo poo they found me! Quick run! Please don't send me to C-SPAM! 
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Aug 4, 2016 20:14
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In fact, on the subject of trade, I am very critical of Democrats in general because we continue to do the dumb "i hate free trade/free trade bad" routine every four years instead of being honest with voters, because it's not great politics. I am exceptionally critical of democratic embraces of poo poo like charter schools.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:15
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Civilized Fishbot posted:why aren't the people who make money from free trade in position to give some of that money away? the money doesn't have to come from poor vietnamese factoryline workers who got a raise, it can come from the factory owner who made millions by moving the factory to 'nam Are you asking why the people aren't or why the people couldn't give some money away?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:16
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IMO the D&D Hivemind was a lot better before the writers shoehorned in some D&D Queen for audiences to react to.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:16
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Noam Chomsky posted:Source? Perhaps you've noticed in the course of doing what I'm assuming, based on your posting in CoC, is your job automating things using computers, a general trend towards increasing automation? That.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:17
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zoux posted:IMO the D&D Hivemind was a lot better before the writers shoehorned in some D&D Queen for audiences to react to. mods pls make this my new av 
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Aug 4, 2016 20:17
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axeil posted:Oh poo poo they found me! Quick run! Please don't send me to C-SPAM! Worse. You're headed to the UKMT thread.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:17
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Trabisnikof posted:I didn't check, but I'm pretty sure the mechanism is trade retaliation just like with other forbidden trade practices. TPP is the first free trade treaty to treat labor and environmental costs as real costs and failure to enforce those costs is a forbidden subsidy. Yeah, factoring externalities into trade agreements is a huge, huge step forward. I doubt we'll ever truly get a tax on goods/labor that accounts for externalities because of political reasons, but if we can somehow get enforcement on trade goods that'd be a huge step forward in environmental and international labor protection. The regulations in TPP aren't really aimed at the US, they're aimed at Vietnam, Laos, etc. to ensure they follow the rules. Also, can we talk for a bit about how mindblowing it is that we are on the cusp of a trade agreement with Vietnam!? 40 years ago we were bombing the crap out of each other and now we're at the point we're negotiating free trade agreements.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:18
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Metapod posted:Are you asking why the people aren't or why the people couldn't give some money away? I'm asking the poster why (s)he thinks the beneficiaries of free trade are not in a position to spread those benefits to the losers
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Aug 4, 2016 20:20
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A Winner is Jew posted:Worse. Not like this...not like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGc-iPc-9dE
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Aug 4, 2016 20:20
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axeil posted:Also, can we talk for a bit about how mindblowing it is that we are on the cusp of a trade agreement with Vietnam!? 40 years ago we were bombing the crap out of each other and now we're at the point we're negotiating free trade agreements.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:21
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axeil posted:Yeah, factoring externalities into trade agreements is a huge, huge step forward. I doubt we'll ever truly get a tax on goods/labor that accounts for externalities because of political reasons, but if we can somehow get enforcement on trade goods that'd be a huge step forward in environmental and international labor protection. The regulations in TPP aren't really aimed at the US, they're aimed at Vietnam, Laos, etc. to ensure they follow the rules. Vietnam is actually a really good country if you want things made on the cheep but want a much higher quality than say China. For example, all the hand wired Vox tube amps are made in Vietnam and sound loving spectacular, with most people not being able to tell the difference between one made in England in the 60's and one made in Vietnam now. Basically they're kinda setting themselves up to be the next Korea in about 30 years or so.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:In fact, on the subject of trade, I am very critical of Democrats in general because we continue to do the dumb "i hate free trade/free trade bad" routine every four years instead of being honest with voters, because it's not great politics. At best charter schools could be okay in some situations. But that would require people who would somehow implement charters in a helpful manner yet also being unable to correct the root issues. At best.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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I wish I owned stock and would see a 2% increase in my portfolio after it passed TPP passed.  Should have git me some learnin'.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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it's frustrating reading that power+ obama budget bit when 2/3rds of the allocations in that publication go to tax breaks for clean coal tech rollouts.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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Civilized Fishbot posted:why aren't the people who make money from free trade in position to give some of that money away? the money doesn't have to come from poor vietnamese factoryline workers who got a raise, it can come from the factory owner who made millions by moving the factory to 'nam
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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A Winner is Jew posted:Forums poster axeil, forums poster axeil, please report to the D&D reeducation thread for processing. Pick up that can! axeil posted:Also, can we talk for a bit about how mindblowing it is that we are on the cusp of a trade agreement with Vietnam!? 40 years ago we were bombing the crap out of each other and now we're at the point we're negotiating free trade agreements. poo poo, did you hear about Cuba?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:22
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A Winner is Jew posted:Vietnam is actually a really good country if you want things made on the cheep but want a much higher quality than say China. programming, too - i've been seeing a lot more vietnamese dev shops that are cheaper and less shady than russians but higher quality and faster turnaround than indians
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Aug 4, 2016 20:23
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Trump coming up in Portland, Maine live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3kjWNhgIOc
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Aug 4, 2016 20:24
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theflyingorc posted:Wait until you hear about Japan! Touche. The point is, I really like global trade (in addition to the comparative advantage bit), because it also helps us not blow each other up. If old enemies can become, if not quite friends, than at least cooperatives in a generation, it helps prove how trade can keep the world a safer place.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:27
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straight up brolic posted:you are talking about ideals. Ideally the factory owner is not making millions by moving the factory, and the new workers are gaining the majority of the new money. The reality, in general (it's really loving stupid to talk about trade deals in generalizations) is that it's somewhere in between and much more complex than just "moving a factory and getting rich at the expense of the good working man". The profit margins in many companies are extremely thin.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:28
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zoux posted:I'm a paid globalist shill, myself.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:28
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A line of people holding up pocket constitutions at the Trump rally. 
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Aug 4, 2016 20:30
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So actual policy question: One of Donald Drumpf's few actual stated policy goals is repatriation of money stored offshore by American companies, untaxed. He's offering to let companies bring it into the American system with a one-time jubilee of a 10% tax on repatriated money. Ignoring the fact that these companies currently are enjoying a 0% jubilee since they are doing fine not being taxed at all, what on Earth could the orange-tinted Bobby Moynihan SNL character do to enforce this?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:30
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I want to day they actually did something akin to what he is proposing a number of years back and all that did was spur a frenzy of corporate acquisitions.straight up brolic posted:you are talking about ideals. Ideally the factory owner is not making millions by moving the factory, and the new workers are gaining the majority of the new money. The reality, in general (it's really loving stupid to talk about trade deals in generalizations) is that it's somewhere in between and much more complex than just "moving a factory and getting rich at the expense of the good working man". The profit margins in many companies are extremely thin. If even that. 
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Aug 4, 2016 20:30
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axeil posted:Touche. Yeah this is my major reason for being pro free trade. Not going to war > someone loosing their job.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:30
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So Trump instantly brought up the fake Iran tape that his own campaign already said didn't exist.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:30
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SubponticatePoster posted:American jobs we can get behind! Is there a resume help thread? I'm trying to format this application to the D&D hivemind. Also do globalist shills get a 401k?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:33
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Trabisnikof posted:SCOTUS blocked the implementation of the Obama transgender bathroom order on a 5-3? That is quite possibly the most contorted interpretation of what happened that I've seen yet, so I'm assuming it's sarcasm. I hope everyone realizes that these were not Obama orders. The administration issued guidelines interpreting Title IX requirements as applied to gender preference. As well intentioned as they were, they went against existing legal precedent; gender preference has never been held to be a protected class. Sexual orientation is not even a protected class. It's entirely possible that the current 8 person Supreme Court could decide unanimously to uphold existing precedent, rejecting the guidelines. radical meme fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 20:33
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zoux posted:So Trump instantly brought up the fake Iran tape that his own campaign already said didn't exist. His pivot to presidential trump is gonna knock your socks off though
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Aug 4, 2016 20:33
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While Pence endorsed Paul Ryan yesterday, he declined to endorse McCain and Ayotte today. https://twitter.com/JWGOP/status/761277074694733825
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Aug 4, 2016 20:34
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Hermsgervørden posted:Is there a resume help thread? I'm trying to format this application to the D&D hivemind. Also do globalist shills get a 401k? Not only that, but medical and dental.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:33
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A Winner is Jew posted:Basically they're kinda setting themselves up to be the next Korea... Hopefully being the next Korea ends up better for all parties than last time.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:34
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