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So for something so important to the world have they ever described how the Federation runs? Federation would imply that the composite governments still exist in some fashion, but no mention is ever made of say the French Government having any different local laws compared to Botswana when the hero's ship does the requisite "fly around earth" arc. Does the Federation have Separation of Powers? A President or Prime Minister? The fact that the colonies have no representation in government is a big point of contention throughout the franchise but that implies those on Earth have it some way. Does each of the aforementioned never mentioned countries send a representative? Is he elected by a constituency or appointed by his government? I feel this would be important as generally Gundam series make a point of having the villains at least starting with a somewhat legitimate beef. But we don't really know how bad/good the Federation is run to make that judgement over some vague democracy good, authoritarianism bad message.
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Jul 31, 2016 17:01
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should i watch the Thunderbolt ONAs separately or just go for the compilation film? i dunno if the individual ONAs have padding like OP/ED or episode previews, but seeing that they add up to a longer runtime than the movie has me worried that some stuff got cut, despite December Sky having "additional scenes."
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Jul 31, 2016 18:07
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dogsicle posted:should i watch the Thunderbolt ONAs separately or just go for the compilation film? i dunno if the individual ONAs have padding like OP/ED or episode previews, but seeing that they add up to a longer runtime than the movie has me worried that some stuff got cut, despite December Sky having "additional scenes." It is literally just the four episodes attached to one another with the credits sequences cut out and all the additional scenes are on the end. You miss nothing by watching december sky.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:45
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It also expands the final fight to fill the gap between 3 and 4 a little better and it's extremely rad.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:17
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'Watch December Sky, not the Thunderbolt OVAs, because you lose nothing and get some neat extras' almost seems like it should be in the next thread OP at this point.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:37
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Midjack posted:Even so! *shrugs, crumbles*
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Jul 31, 2016 20:15
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galagazombie posted:So for something so important to the world have they ever described how the Federation runs? Federation would imply that the composite governments still exist in some fashion, but no mention is ever made of say the French Government having any different local laws compared to Botswana when the hero's ship does the requisite "fly around earth" arc. Does the Federation have Separation of Powers? A President or Prime Minister? The fact that the colonies have no representation in government is a big point of contention throughout the franchise but that implies those on Earth have it some way. Does each of the aforementioned never mentioned countries send a representative? Is he elected by a constituency or appointed by his government? I feel this would be important as generally Gundam series make a point of having the villains at least starting with a somewhat legitimate beef. But we don't really know how bad/good the Federation is run to make that judgement over some vague democracy good, authoritarianism bad message. It has a prime minister, at least. Seemed to have some kind of central parliament from Zeta, since Char made a speech there. Revil describes it as having principles of "Absolute democracy" in his Zeon is exhausted speech, but in practice it seems to be mostly run by a bloated centralized bureaucracy. Even allowing for absolute democracy as the ability for 51% of the population to vote 49% into the ground, it seems unlikely the general population would be so enthusiastically in favor of policies like "Let's just send most people into space to have more resources to ourselves!" and "You know what was fun? Colony drops. Let's let Zeon pull another one." Kind of sad, but it seems Zeon has a better track record for civilian government. I'd actually vote for Darcia Bakharov. Dude seemed to have a decent head on his shoulders. Shame about his kid, though.
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Jul 31, 2016 21:29
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I'd rather not let space imperial Japan run things. The federation is bad and terrible for letting colony drops happen but zeon is the ones still doing colony drops of their own volition
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Jul 31, 2016 21:34
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'd rather not let space imperial Japan run things. The federation is bad and terrible for letting colony drops happen but zeon is the ones still doing colony drops of their own volition Hey, I said Darcia Bakharov, not Gihren. The moderate prime minister during the One Year War who negotiated Zeon's surrender, and then refused to get the Republic involved with any Neo-Zeon bullshit. Which reminds me. Zeon also eventually wound up with Leopold Fieseler as a senator in the lower house, and Leo's a good dude. How in the hell does the fascist dicatorship wind up with a responsive, mostly reasonable elected government once the war's over, while the supposed democracy winds up with, well, the post-one-year-war Federation government, who somehow combine cowardice with a complete lack of self preservation instincts?
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Jul 31, 2016 22:23
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All the Zabis being dead probably helped a small bit.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:53
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The GIG posted:All the Zabis being dead probably helped a small bit. And most of the decent members of Federation high command being dead probably hurt a similar amount. Seriously, even a guy like Wakkein sticking around could have reduced the damage.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:04
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chiasaur11 posted:It has a prime minister, at least. Seemed to have some kind of central parliament from Zeta, since Char made a speech there. Revil describes it as having principles of "Absolute democracy" in his Zeon is exhausted speech, but in practice it seems to be mostly run by a bloated centralized bureaucracy. Even allowing for absolute democracy as the ability for 51% of the population to vote 49% into the ground, it seems unlikely the general population would be so enthusiastically in favor of policies like "Let's just send most people into space to have more resources to ourselves!" and "You know what was fun? Colony drops. Let's let Zeon pull another one." It's pretty easy to imagine a government that pays lip service to the concept of democracy while actually being functionally under the control of a wealthy and powerful elite who can manipulate the democratic process in various ways to either convince the general public to vote against their own interests or simply not allow them to vote against your policies in a variety of ways, because this kind of thing is extremely common in the real world. In fact, it's even easier to imagine, because a single government having authority over the entire Earth sphere means that elites within that government would have an absolutely staggering amount of power and influence. Imagine somebody like the United States Speaker of the House except he has power over the entire world congress.
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Aug 1, 2016 02:58
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Kanos posted:It's pretty easy to imagine a government that pays lip service to the concept of democracy while actually being functionally under the control of a wealthy and powerful elite who can manipulate the democratic process in various ways to either convince the general public to vote against their own interests or simply not allow them to vote against your policies in a variety of ways, because this kind of thing is extremely common in the real world. Oh, I can believe it. Things like the Titans and leaving the whole "stop Zeon" thing to the AEUG? Those are horrible policies I can see a government with that much power selling pretty well. The Dublin drop... less so, which makes me agree with Revil that the 'democracy' of the EF isn't all it's advertised to be. Seriously, that one's... that one's pretty impressive as dick moves go.
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Aug 1, 2016 03:07
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chiasaur11 posted:Oh, I can believe it. Things like the Titans and leaving the whole "stop Zeon" thing to the AEUG? Those are horrible policies I can see a government with that much power selling pretty well. The Dublin drop would definitely fall under one of those things that is negotiated and handled in backroom deals without any reference to the public. Hell, as a slimy horrible person you could even turn that to your advantage; make a backroom deal to let Neo Zeon slip a colony drop through and then run for reelection on a "I'll be the one to beef up our defenses against those spacenoids so this tragedy never happens again, Vote Scumbag UC 0090".
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Aug 1, 2016 03:28
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Alright I'm about two months now into wading into the wilds of Gundam, here's what I've watched so far Gundam Seed The three theatrical versions of the original 1978 MSG Iron Blooded Orphans and I'm currently about 12 episodes into 00 which I'm really digging the poo poo out of. So far I'm really loving everything I've seen. I watched Seed first, and it really hooked me. I think seeing it before the original MSG series probably made me like it better, because I wasn't watching it feeling like it was a massive recycling of the original series themes and character archetypes. Instead, when I watched the MSG movies it was more of "oh cool, so that's where this came from". I was going to go right into 0080, 8th MS Team and Turn A but am going to take my time now, as I don't want to watch all the best shows straight away. I'm pretty committed at this point to watching everything, so I'd like to leave some of the best for last. I've got a perverse curiosity about Seed Destiny now, partially because I really like Athrun and Cagalli and want to see more stories with them. But some of it's also wondering if it can be as bad as everyone says it is? As Seed gets a lot of hate and I loved it so maybe Destiny isn't as terrible? I fear though this may be one of those William Burroughs "they lied to me about pot so I thought they were lying about heroin" situations and I'm going to come back after watching it and scream about why you people didn't love me enough to stop me from watching it.... I'll get around to it eventually. Actually I want to see more of Char, where should I go next? Origin? Zeta Gundam? I've tried to avoid spoilers from wiki articles so I'm not sure which of the universal century series have more or less of him in them, but have the distinct impression he's not in all of them.
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Aug 6, 2016 09:39
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Sooper Gila posted:Alright I'm about two months now into wading into the wilds of Gundam, here's what I've watched so far SEED Destiny has its fans but at bare minimum it's widely recognized that it had a troubled production. There are a lot of rumors (most of which are probably inaccurate) but there was some kind of problems which lead to Cagalli in particular getting a much reduced and pretty lovely role. You should probably watch it to form your own opinion but be prepared for something bad. That said it has its fans and some of its flaws are pretty overstated or won't be as significant if you don't hate Kira Yamato. I think it's a poo poo show but YMMV. Move on to Zeta Gundam. Zeta is the direct sequel to the original show and probably the most influential Gundam show after the original. For the UC basically it works like this: MSG -> Zeta -> ZZ -> CCA are the backbone of the UC. MSG, Zeta and CCA tell Amuro and Char's story with ZZ kind of being the black sheep. 08th, 0080, 0083 and Thunderbolt are sidestories that flesh out the universe but are mostly stand alone. Thunderbolt in particular is in a weird canonical place but is entirely sidestory so don't stress about it. Gundam Unicorn is a sorta-sequel to CCA but done by a different team. Origin is an origin story for the events of MSG but is based off a manga with some character deviations so it isn't a perfect origin story. F91 and V are sequels but divorced enough from the original as to effectively be their own thing except for references. G-Reco and Turn-A Gundam are set in the super-insanely distant future and have only the loosest references. G-Saviour is technically in the UC but seriously don't watch G Saviour. Anything else is in an alternate universe. CE is the only alternate universe to get more than one series (unless you count Build Fighters) so there's no real watch order struggle there. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 09:46
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Origin is really good for covering young Char and establishing how he became such a sociopath. Zeta Gundam is Char realizing he couldn't change the world on his own and trying to change it through popular opinion, only to have the plan blow up in his face.
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Aug 6, 2016 09:46
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Sooper Gila posted:Alright I'm about two months now into wading into the wilds of Gundam, here's what I've watched so far Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta, and Char's Counterattack are the original Char saga. He's not present in ZZ, but his shadow over the proceedings is quite obvious.
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Aug 6, 2016 09:50
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Y'all saying Char wasn't in ZZ didn't watch the quiz show episode. 
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Aug 6, 2016 10:47
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Here's a simple chart for people who are confused about Gundam chronology and how the shows are related.
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Aug 6, 2016 10:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:Origin is really good for covering young Char and establishing how he became such a sociopath. Zeta Gundam is Char realizing he couldn't change the world on his own and trying to change it through popular opinion, only to have the plan blow up in his face. How'd you think Char would handle our whacky real world social media? I keep picturing the guy who was part of that group trying to stop that African warlord with the child soldiers who had a break down and went on PCP bender. Except in this case, space asteroid death instead of drugs.
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Aug 6, 2016 14:37
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That dude was pretty hosed up though. He started masturbating in public or something in Los Angeles...Char never went that crazy.
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Aug 6, 2016 14:50
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Raxivace posted:That dude was pretty hosed up though. He started masturbating in public or something in Los Angeles...Char never went that crazy. Asteroids.
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Aug 6, 2016 14:55
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Char in real life would take a very different path and be a crazy model. Please make Neon Demon with Char.
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Aug 6, 2016 15:19
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Raxivace posted:That dude was pretty hosed up though. He started masturbating in public or something in Los Angeles...Char never went that crazy. Char no, but did you think Quattro was doing in between ZZ and CCA?
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Aug 6, 2016 15:41
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Um...I watched G-saviour last night. Yeah... It wasn't horrific but it wasn't Gundam. I did genuinely laugh at some of the jokes though. Overall, D-. Some of the CGI was decent?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:06
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I think the G-Saviour itself isn't a bad mobile suit design. Not so sure about the front skirts, but it looks sort of like a lamer F-91 to me with those shoulder pads and the ribbing.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:27
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unpurposed posted:It wasn't horrific but it wasn't Gundam. I did genuinely laugh at some of the jokes though. Overall, D-. Some of the CGI was decent? There's a pretty interesting gif-loaded effortpost floating around that explains how, lack of final polish aside, the CGI mobile suits in g Savior are animated with some extremely high attention to detail and it has the most consistent and accurate depiction of how AMBAC theoretically works, as well as the most consistent portrayal of a mobile suits mass, in the entire franchise. It's just that since all that stuff isn't very noticeable if you aren't looking for it people zero in on G Saviors other, much less defensible aspects.
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Aug 6, 2016 19:53
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mr. stefan posted:There's a pretty interesting gif-loaded effortpost floating around that explains how, lack of final polish aside, the CGI mobile suits in g Savior are animated with some extremely high attention to detail and it has the most consistent and accurate depiction of how AMBAC theoretically works, as well as the most consistent portrayal of a mobile suits mass, in the entire franchise. It's just that since all that stuff isn't very noticeable if you aren't looking for it people zero in on G Saviors other, much less defensible aspects. Also, the designs are just plain ugly. Those big barrels they have for torsos are horribly mismatched with the tiny, spindly limbs.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:06
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mr. stefan posted:There's a pretty interesting gif-loaded effortpost floating around that explains how, lack of final polish aside, the CGI mobile suits in g Savior are animated with some extremely high attention to detail and it has the most consistent and accurate depiction of how AMBAC theoretically works, as well as the most consistent portrayal of a mobile suits mass, in the entire franchise. It's just that since all that stuff isn't very noticeable if you aren't looking for it people zero in on G Saviors other, much less defensible aspects. This sounds great. Any chance someone has a link?
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Aug 6, 2016 20:11
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Sooper Gila posted:Alright I'm about two months now into wading into the wilds of Gundam, here's what I've watched so far If you're going to see Seed Destiny, you definitely want to track down Stargazer. Fifty minutes, and unlike most Seed stuff, it's pretty good. Just a little mostly self contained side story in three fifteenish minute parts about a scientist working for a non-partisan deep space research project, a Phantom Pain elite pilot who's probably the deadliest baseline human in SEED, and what happens when their lives intersect. (It is violence.) Good show, I thought. Did a lot with its short screentime. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 20:39
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I decided to watch a whole lot of Gundam. Going through mainly UC first before moving onto others, and just finished the movie trilogy for MSG. Whenever I get around to Zeta, should I watch the TV series or watch the movies for those? Also, how are the dubs for most the Gundam series in general these days? I watched the movies in Japanese since I read they didn't use the TV cast and said gently caress that noise.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:18
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Watch the TV series for Zeta, the movies aren't as good. Zeta's dub is also really good. Most of the dubs are serviceable to good, especially for UC shows, but Zeta's stands out as one of the best.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:20
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The Zeta movies move a lot faster, but are worse for it IMO. To be honest, Zeta does start out kind of slow and has an infamous arc later that is a retread of earlier content, which is cut from the movies. But the movies also skip some story events and character development that are of the best in the series, if not the franchise as a whole. If you can stomach a 50 episode series, it is the better option than the movies.
GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:02
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The Zeta movies blend new and old animation together in a way that never looks good. It does make a few changes for the better but overall unlike the MSG movie trilogy it's not a good substitute for the show, especially since its runtime is significantly shorter
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Aug 6, 2016 23:08
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I heard the G Savior video game is pretty solid
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Aug 7, 2016 02:56
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of the UC tv series, Zeta is by far the best imo
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Aug 7, 2016 03:03
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Which is pretty specific praise. Though yeah, even with its problems Zeta is pretty good.
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Aug 7, 2016 03:49
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Kanos posted:The Dublin drop would definitely fall under one of those things that is negotiated and handled in backroom deals without any reference to the public. Hell, as a slimy horrible person you could even turn that to your advantage; make a backroom deal to let Neo Zeon slip a colony drop through and then run for reelection on a "I'll be the one to beef up our defenses against those spacenoids so this tragedy never happens again, Vote Scumbag UC 0090". Federation Did 9/11
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Aug 7, 2016 05:13
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Yinlock posted:Federation Did 9/11 The Federation actually did do 9/11 in 0083!
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Aug 7, 2016 06:03
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