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I am in southern Missouri and have been goddamn buried in Jill Stein ads.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:28
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Feinne posted:On one hand Snowden was in a box with respect to his option surrounding the release of that information, on the other hand I can't spare even a drop of respect for him now that he's doing propaganda for Putin. The dude is trapped in a country who will protect him. Just like Julian Assange working against the Clinton campaign for Putin, it makes sense. They're both in a box. They don't have friends who can protect them. I'd do propaganda for Putin to survive too.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:28
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Nelson Mandingo posted:The dude is trapped in a country who will protect him. Just like Julian Assange working against the Clinton campaign for Putin, it makes sense. They're both in a box. They don't have friends who can protect them. I'd do propaganda for Putin to survive too. Oh yeah I can't fault him for preferring to be alive over having the respect of some random jackass on the internet.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:34
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Bushiz posted:Snowden's kind of a naive idiot for being surprised that the NSA was doing the thing it had repeatedly been doing throughout history but he acted correctly. Going through the "correct channels" would have resulted in getting stonewalled until he gave up and dumped the information, at which point he would have gotten the Chelsea Manning treatment. Snowden's biggest idiocy was his original plan of "stay in Hong Kong forever because clearly the PRC has no influence there". BAWRLIN posted:I am in southern Missouri and have been goddamn buried in Jill Stein ads. So that's the media market cheap enough for Jill Stein to buy ads! fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 17:34
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Snowden can stay in my house if he wants. Rent cheap too.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:36
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vyelkin posted:In non-Trump news for once, North Carolina wants to set aside $500,000 from a disaster relief fund in order to pay legal fees defending HB2, the anti-trans bathroom bill. Over a month old, not really news, though the NBA all-star game is already moved because of NC's leadership being the bigoted fucks they are. NC's also being sued because of how bad their Gerrymandering is, giving them a supermajority control of the state while having less registered Republicans than Democrats (and having lost the popular vote overall for congressional races in what, 2014?). http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/north-carolina-democrats-voters-and-activists-sue-over-gerrymandering With any luck this will make it to a liberal majority SCOTUS who will come down on NC as hard as possible and maybe rule gerrymandering is unconstitutional. The "this lets politicians pick their voters and that's bullshit" argument is a good start for it. vyelkin posted:Hillary should get a surrogate to casually mention the idea of appointing Khizr Khan to the Supreme Court just to see how Trump reacts. I hope she says something like that during a debate. "Mr. Khan is an amazing person and shows the kind of character we need in our legal system, or judges and justices" would send the right wing in to a frenzy.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:38
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Considering the dude defended the hell out of domestic surveillance online when a Republican was in office and then 180d to it being evil and needing to be leaked once a Democrat came into office, it's not exactly a stretch to accuse him of using his position to play politics. Also, RT is straight up the Russian equivalent of Fars or KCNA. EDIT: BAWRLIN posted:I am in southern Missouri and have been goddamn buried in Jill Stein ads. Wow, living in Missouri and having to see Jill Stein ads, that's a double whammy of terrible.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:38
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BAWRLIN posted:I am in southern Missouri and have been goddamn buried in Jill Stein ads. Only one major party is running time for commercial ads so it stands to reason that the ads are cheaper than normal. The Clinton campaign can afford to run more of them and it means that the third parties can afford to buy ad space too.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:38
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a foolish pianist posted:It's so crazy to see liberals angry at Snowden. The guy's an American hero. yeah certainly bringing to light something that was already known about in 1998, 2004 and 2006 makes you a hero. Massive domestic surveillance has been A Thing for nearly 20 years now, hoss The only people who should have been surprised were lovely citizens or were born too young to remember how the NSA was conducting massive domestic surveillance Snowden is just reddit personified, and now he's out being a mouthpiece for Putin's regime
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Aug 6, 2016 17:41
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 lol trump broke the media's truth-is-in-the-middle fever
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Aug 6, 2016 17:43
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Just saw a Hillary ad here in AZ during the commercials between each few minutes of Olympics. Makes total sense as AZ is now a battleground state. I saw a lot of them during the DNC but that's to be expected.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:44
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Ice Phisherman posted:Only one major party is running time for commercial ads so it stands to reason that the ads are cheaper than normal. The Clinton campaign can afford to run more of them and it means that the third parties can afford to buy ad space too. Yeah but the Jill Stein campaign has raised less than a million dollars, so it's still weird they can afford to buy a lot of ads in multiple markets. hallebarrysoetoro posted:yeah certainly bringing to light something that was already known about in 1998, 2004 and 2006 makes you a hero. Massive domestic surveillance has been A Thing for nearly 20 years now, hoss You're missing like 3 other years there at least, but I suppose it's kind of the point that these big "revelations" that spy agencies created to spy on everyone during the cold war continue spying on everyone get forgotten. They were also, say, all over international calls at least during the Cold War, did a ton of tracking of domestic call patterns in conjunction with pre-breakup AT&T as well, and so on. Not to mention tracking telexes and telegrams and all that sort of thing. Gotta catch those commies after all!
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Aug 6, 2016 17:46
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Aug 6, 2016 17:48
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Jesus Christ it's scary how many people are ok with the spooky poo poo our government does. Did you know the router you use to connect to the internet may be forwarding all your porn searches to the NSA? Seriously. One of the Snowden leaks revealed that the NSA literally broke into private warehouses, opened up home routers, and installed devices that forward traffic to a secret government data center. But no I guess Snowden is the real bad guy for telling us this stuff was happening. Also, could one of the people calling him a traitor please explain what he should have done? Be sure to include why this new course of action wouldn't have gotten him shot/arrested/disappeared.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:59
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Before Snowden, I thought that allegations of massive, secret government surveillance programs were the realm of tin foil hat wearers. It's entirely possible that I'm a moron who wasn't paying attention, though.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:59
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Evil Fluffy posted:Over a month old, not really news, though the NBA all-star game is already moved because of NC's leadership being the bigoted fucks they are. A lot of people don't realize that the NBA is probably the most progressive of the Big Four leagues in the US (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL). They had a guy in the NBA front office who David Stern said, "Knew more about basketball than me" and then left to the Golden State front office. Said person? Gay. They had the first openly gay athlete in the big four, helped found the WNBA, and kicked a racist owner out without a second thought.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:59
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Before Snowden, I thought that allegations of massive, secret government surveillance programs were the realm of tin foil hat wearers. Wasn't there a mini scandal about that in some Utah NSA site back in like 2004 or 2008? edit: All I can find is stories about a large NSA site being built there. Maybe it was just conspiracy talk at the time?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:02
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Evil Fluffy posted:Over a month old, not really news, though the NBA all-star game is already moved because of NC's leadership being the bigoted fucks they are. Whoops, my bad. I saw it posted on facebook and didn't see the date.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:05
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Before Snowden, I thought that allegations of massive, secret government surveillance programs were the realm of tin foil hat wearers. It was there, but it was subtle. Imagine you have a puzzle but the picture on the box is missing. It's enormous and the pieces all fit together to make something you can recognize as you put it all together. However there are pieces that are missing. You can infer the shape and picture of those pieces from pieces around them. You may not know exactly how everything fits together. You may not know the exact picture. You can infer what it would look like and how it all fits together. Save for some people in the know who had proof of the depth and breadth of the spying everyone else who was alarmed was just guessing, but they were good guesses based on available data. You're not dumb.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:07
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readingatwork posted:Jesus Christ it's scary how many people are ok with the spooky poo poo our government does. Did you know the router you use to connect to the internet may be forwarding all your porn searches to the NSA? Seriously. One of the Snowden leaks revealed that the NSA literally broke into private warehouses, opened up home routers, and installed devices that forward traffic to a secret government data center. But no I guess Snowden is the real bad guy for telling us this stuff was happening. Yes, that was already known. Also what he should've done is stayed anonymous longer, not revealed himself as soon as people said they wanted to congratulate whomever did the leaking. He might have even been able to get somewhere safer then as well.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:13
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duz posted:He might have even been able to get somewhere safer then as well. Where?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:17
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The Real Foogla posted:Where? I forget what his original plan was but I am pretty sure it wasn't Russia. Personally I think he handled the actual leak and classified materials quite correctly and the rest is dumb but understandable and not as big a deal. Maybe he could plead to something reasonable related to being a Russian patsy in his post-leak life if the US allowed it, which it won't. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 18:25
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Ice Phisherman posted:It was there, but it was subtle. Imagine you have a puzzle but the picture on the box is missing. It's enormous and the pieces all fit together to make something you can recognize as you put it all together. However there are pieces that are missing. You can infer the shape and picture of those pieces from pieces around them. You may not know exactly how everything fits together. You may not know the exact picture. You can infer what it would look like and how it all fits together. Save for some people in the know who had proof of the depth and breadth of the spying everyone else who was alarmed was just guessing, but they were good guesses based on available data. You're not dumb. Hell, most of Congress didn't even know what was going on. Because the NSA was able to get interpretations of the law that said that their operations were legal, and then they got those interpretations classified -- including for members of Congress. We had people like Ron Wyden (who was actually able to view the secret interpretations) telling the rest of Congress, "the laws you're voting on don't do what you think they do according to the government", but he wasn't able to give details due to the classification. When Snowden leaked that stuff, plenty of senators were surprised and pissed off. Claiming that "everybody knew what was going on" was disingenuous at best, given that the people who were literally in charge of legalizing, authorizing, and funding the operations didn't know what was going on. GreyjoyBastard posted:I forget what his original plan was but I am pretty sure it wasn't Russia. Supposedly Cuba, until the US pulled his passport and Russia didn't let him leave.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:28
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readingatwork posted:Jesus Christ it's scary how many people are ok with the spooky poo poo our government does. Did you know the router you use to connect to the internet may be forwarding all your porn searches to the NSA? Seriously. One of the Snowden leaks revealed that the NSA literally broke into private warehouses, opened up home routers, and installed devices that forward traffic to a secret government data center. But no I guess Snowden is the real bad guy for telling us this stuff was happening. Man wait til you find out that even if spy agencies hadn't been explicitly in place for decades on end, your porn searches go through dozens of computer systems, each of which could log the information for their own purposes if they so choose, to say nothing of the site you're actually sending it to which by this point has a massive catalog of information on you that they are more than happy to sell off when they get the chance! Maybe you're just old or something, but in fuckin' elementary school I was taught that you can't trust the internet to keep things private. What he should have done is plan his escape better so he doesn't end up stuck in Russia, but that would require him to be smart enough to figure out things like "the PRC controls Hong Kong". GreyjoyBastard posted:I forget what his original plan was but I am pretty sure it wasn't Russia. It was Hong Kong. He thought Hong Kong was a libertarian paradise. Then he realized that this was a terrible idea and panicked trying to get somewhere else. Russia was the only place he could get to at that point, since he'd basically revealed himself already.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:31
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readingatwork posted:Also, could one of the people calling him a traitor please explain what he should have done? Be sure to include why this new course of action wouldn't have gotten him shot/arrested/disappeared. Ok hold on, do you seriously think the US government would have murdered Snowden if he had stayed in the US? Is this the leftist equivalent of Clinton murder conspiracies?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:36
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El Disco posted:Ok hold on, do you seriously think the US government would have murdered Snowden if he had stayed in the US? Is this the leftist equivalent of Clinton murder conspiracies? Let's say that the last two points are hyperbole. Would the first one on the list "arrest for life because TREASON" be applicable for revealing your government is being an rear end in a top hat?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:42
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Oh, Donald. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/761936929902452740 On our treaty with Japan Please. keep opening your trap.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:43
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fishmech posted:It was Hong Kong. He thought Hong Kong was a libertarian paradise. Holy hell, is that true? How was someone working for the NSA and engineered the theft of so much data so stupid as to not realize Hong Kong wasn't some sanctuary from the PRC?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:44
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BAWRLIN posted:I am in southern Missouri and have been goddamn buried in Jill Stein ads. At least they're not super dilute. You'd be in trouble for sure if they were.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:45
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Josef bugman posted:Let's say that the last two points are hyperbole. Would the first one on the list "arrest for life because TREASON" be applicable for revealing your government is being an rear end in a top hat? I'd be OK with him getting a pardon for revealing the domestic surveillance and facing charges for revealing the foreign surveillance.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:47
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KillingPablo posted:Holy hell, is that true? How was someone working for the NSA and engineered the theft of so much data so stupid as to not realize Hong Kong wasn't some sanctuary from the PRC? On the one hand, I might actually prefer being a prc shill to being a Putin shill. On the other hand, the CCP might be more likely to sell his rear end to the US.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:48
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KillingPablo posted:Holy hell, is that true? How was someone working for the NSA and engineered the theft of so much data so stupid as to not realize Hong Kong wasn't some sanctuary from the PRC? Read too many William Gibson novels?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:48
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El Disco posted:I'd be OK with him getting a pardon for revealing the domestic surveillance and facing charges for revealing the foreign surveillance. I like this one.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:48
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fits my needs posted:He committed treason and deserves to be jailed for life or executed. Being a traitor and giving state secrets to our enemies should not just be let off with a slap on the wrist. Look at all this pointless obedience.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:49
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Saeka posted:Oh, Donald. It's true, Japan should rush to our aid because Japan is... uh... ...?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:49
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vyelkin posted:In non-Trump news for once, North Carolina wants to set aside $500,000 from a disaster relief fund in order to pay legal fees defending HB2, the anti-trans bathroom bill. hosed up, but fitting.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:52
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El Disco posted:I'd be OK with him getting a pardon for revealing the domestic surveillance and facing charges for revealing the foreign surveillance. What would that even be good for.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:53
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Yes, I'm sure Snowden looks at the things the government did with someone like Chelsea Manning and things 'oh yes, I totally want that'. Remember that our government forced the Ecuadorian president's plane to land because they believed he was on it. You don't think he wouldn't have ended up in a Supermax had they been able to catch him? I'm also just going to remind people that he tried to go to South America but got stranded in Russia when they revoked his passport.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:55
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KillingPablo posted:Holy hell, is that true? How was someone working for the NSA and engineered the theft of so much data so stupid as to not realize Hong Kong wasn't some sanctuary from the PRC? Yes, it was his original plan, he was getting set up to live there permanently and everything. While it certainly did make sense as a first stop out of the country - plenty of flights from Hawaii where he was to Hong Kong, if he'd put in the least bit of planning he'd have had travel arranged to another country from Hong Kong before he let his name be known. FlamingLiberal posted:Remember that our government forced the Ecuadorian president's plane to land because they believed he was on it. You don't think he wouldn't have ended up in a Supermax had they been able to catch him? He would have just gone to a regular federal prison, probably one of those "you're a rich guy who finally got caught embezzling enough that we have to jail you" minimum-medium security ones at that. Manning has extra harsh punishment because they got sentenced under military law and are under military jurisdiction. Is this supposed to be a complaint that a guy who just committed a bunch of crimes and then advertised he'd done so doesn't have a valid passport anymore? I mean that's the hell of it all, a smarter leaker would have tried to keep his name hidden as long as possible, at least until they'd found a place they'd actually like to stay in, you know?
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Aug 6, 2016 19:06
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KillingPablo posted:Holy hell, is that true? How was someone working for the NSA and engineered the theft of so much data so stupid as to not realize Hong Kong wasn't some sanctuary from the PRC? Well... One thing he seemed to reveal by his results (and not the documents themselves) is that NSA's internal opsec was somewhat lacking.
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Aug 6, 2016 19:08
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