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Josef bugman posted:Maybe if there was an actual accountability that didn't mean you have to flee the country when you tell people about the bad poo poo your country is doing. I completely understand about having zero good options in that case but man, Putin's Russia? Just drat.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:37
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Bad Moon posted:I completely understand about having zero good options in that case but man, Putin's Russia? Just drat. Very few other countries actually have the power and interest to protect him.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:38
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Buffer posted:Gotta admit it's tempting to be ok with it. If anyone domestic actually deserves surveillance, spying and general fuckery it's conservatives. Just a hair of the poo poo that was done to labor activists or civil rights leaders. Just a taste of it. Don't need to go full McCarthy or Hoover, but just a drat taste. Their ideology needs to loving die and it'd hard to be upset about the US giving them the ol' commie / labor treatment giving the loving poo poo they pulled and are pulling. Counterpoint: Imagine what Trump would do with the government surveillance apparatus at his command. Or, say, Ted Cruz in 2020.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:38
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IIRC that LA Times/USC poll is the one where they have a total pool of 2000 people and they poll a few hundred of them each week to see how their attitudes have shifted. I don't think that methodology is going to hold up, since it seems to keep giving outlier results that are tilted towards Trump.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:38
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Mr Interweb posted:I have a bad feeling that "short circuit" line is going to get a lot of play in the media in the coming days. It probably will, but that's probably because Donnie will latch onto it and run it into the ground now that he's forbidden from talking about veterans or babies. Besides, a small brain fart on her part is less damning than the constant stream of virulent diarrhea that's been shooting out of his mouth for the past week, IMO.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:40
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Counterpoint: Imagine what Trump would do with the government surveillance apparatus at his command. This is why the apparatus should be dismantled. Even if you agree with Obama's use of it, it still sets the precedent that the government should have that kind of power and then if a Republican is given that power, whoops. Much safer than just relying on the GOP to blow the presidential election every four years.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:42
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Buffer posted:Gotta admit it's tempting to be ok with it. If anyone domestic actually deserves surveillance, spying and general fuckery it's conservatives. Just a hair of the poo poo that was done to labor activists or civil rights leaders. Just a taste of it. Don't need to go full McCarthy or Hoover, but just a drat taste. Their ideology needs to loving die and it'd hard to be upset about the US giving them the ol' commie / labor treatment giving the loving poo poo they pulled and are pulling. There's been vague talk of using RICO to dig into whether fossil fuel companies are conspiring to spread inaccurate counter-narrative on Climate Change, right? I've seen some rightist screaming about vague stuff in the news about it, "Obama muzzles dissent" and all. Won't *somebody* think of the astroturfers? More directly, remember a couple years ago when some right-wing "taxes are immoral" groups got special examination from the IRS to see if they happened to be cheating on these taxes that they rant about, and the right-wing blogosphere threw a fit about singling them out, even though basically "don't pay taxes" was pretty much these organizations' whole schtick?
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Aug 6, 2016 20:43
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Just to keep everything in perspective about the "short circuit" thing, when there was some kind of a threat at a Trump rally, he almost knocked the podium over in terror https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNelSuoHzlI
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Aug 6, 2016 20:44
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SedanChair posted:The most annoying thing to me about Trump's campaign is how it will set expectations as low as they can be for the Hillary administration. Whatever she does, there will always be sycophants who whine "I suppose you would have preferred Donald Trump." I though the worst thing about his campaign was emboldening white nationalists across the country, but hey I guess a liberal being snide with you is just as bad.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:45
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Rygar201 posted:I though the worst thing about his campaign was emboldening white nationalists across the country, but hey I guess a liberal being snide with you is just as bad. Well it's possible and appropriate to violently suppress white nationalists, whereas this lowering of standards will be more permanent.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:46
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Josef bugman posted:Yeah, I never got the whole "well people will believe you more if you are dead!" Arguement, because I'd kind of want to stay amongst the land of the living. Dead people are more useful to causes, being alive to speak for yourself is a liability.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:47
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Saeka posted:Oh, Donald. Leaving aside the fact that Japan has been sending support all through our post 9/11 tromps through the middle east, what the gently caress is Japan even going to do if someone attacks the US? The US has more military than the next seven nations combined. We have more than half of all the aircraft carriers in the world and more than 10 times the nuclear weapons of any country other than Russia. We're good. But, by all means get pissed that Japan has a constitutional constraint on foreign war which we pretty much put in there when we redid their whole government thing post WWII. 
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Aug 6, 2016 20:49
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Bad Moon posted:I completely understand about having zero good options in that case but man, Putin's Russia? Just drat. I know. But "Devil and the deep blue sea" and all that. I'd prefer it if he went off grid and lived in the wilderness for a while but, well, I know I'd certainly not want to do that. sleeptalker posted:Dead people are more useful to causes, being alive to speak for yourself is a liability. It's sad how true that is. The thing that aggravates me the most is people who want others to die solely so that they can have something to follow
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Aug 6, 2016 20:50
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-double post-
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Aug 6, 2016 20:51
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sleeptalker posted:Dead people are more useful to causes, being alive to speak for yourself is a liability. Dead people are also useful to the powers that be
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Aug 6, 2016 20:53
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Yea, I'm not sure where else Snowden was supposed to go? The PRC? The DPRK? There aren't a lot of states left that would even try to resist the US grabbing him, much less have the ability to.UV_Catastrophe posted:Counterpoint: Imagine what Trump would do with the government surveillance apparatus at his command. I don't think you really understood what I said. Short of a new church commission or some such, the US internal intelligence apparatus is going to exist in its current, if not an expanded, form on both January 20, 2017 and January 20, 2021. So, that's going to be the case should they take power. I'd love to see it dismantled, don't see that as in the cards.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:55
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Gyges posted:Leaving aside the fact that Japan has been sending support all through our post 9/11 tromps through the middle east, what the gently caress is Japan even going to do if someone attacks the US? The US has more military than the next seven nations combined. We have more than half of all the aircraft carriers in the world and more than 10 times the nuclear weapons of any country other than Russia. We're good. But, by all means get pissed that Japan has a constitutional constraint on foreign war which we pretty much put in there when we redid their whole government thing post WWII. Caveat: more military /spending/. Our military right now is all volunteer, with the ability to draft if needed. Though I wonder how much of that spending is on the F-35.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:58
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Rygar201 posted:I though the worst thing about his campaign was emboldening white nationalists across the country, but hey I guess a liberal being snide with you is just as bad. Yeah see, this is exactly the point, annoying != the worst unless you're a snide liberal I guess where being annoyed might actually be the worst thing you ever experience
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Aug 6, 2016 21:02
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Okay, even if Snowden is supposedly not a traitor what did his release actually do? There hasn't been some revolution where people have been locking down their electronic devices or even any real kind of visible reform. What difference did he make besides making the intelligence agencies aware of making sure they hire less libertarian retards and Obama had to give some milquetoast "trust me" speech?
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Aug 6, 2016 21:03
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Before Snowden, I thought that allegations of massive, secret government surveillance programs were the realm of tin foil hat wearers. It was pretty much in the realm of tin foil hat wearers. Nobody could possibly believe the NSA was irradiating people with 1kW of radiofrequency energy at short range to activate a built-in chip along the wire of your monitor to see what you're doing.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:04
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fits my needs posted:Okay, even if Snowden is supposedly not a traitor what did his release actually do? Nothing you'd like.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:05
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Didn't it end that data collection program of US citizens cell phones?
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Aug 6, 2016 21:05
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fits my needs posted:Okay, even if Snowden is supposedly not a traitor what did his release actually do? There hasn't been some revolution where people have been locking down their electronic devices or even any real kind of visible reform. What difference did he make besides making the intelligence agencies aware of making sure they hire less libertarian retards and Obama had to give some milquetoast "trust me" speech? revealed how many liberals like yourself are insane nationalists who reflexively lash out any time someone says "America bad"
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Aug 6, 2016 21:06
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There will always be snide liberals in a superpositional state of both annoying and annoyed.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:07
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rscott posted:revealed how many liberals like yourself are insane nationalists who reflexively lash out any time someone says "America bad" T...Ted Rall, is that you?
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Aug 6, 2016 21:10
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SedanChair posted:Nothing you'd like. Are you that poster who pretends to be a black guy to give your posts more weight? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 6, 2016 21:11
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fits my needs posted:Okay, even if Snowden is supposedly not a traitor what did his release actually do? There hasn't been some revolution where people have been locking down their electronic devices or even any real kind of visible reform. What difference did he make besides making the intelligence agencies aware of making sure they hire less libertarian retards and Obama had to give some milquetoast "trust me" speech? I like how nothing being done reflects badly on Snowden and not, y'know, the system
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Aug 6, 2016 21:11
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Speaking of Snowden and leaking stuff to the world at large: https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/761972775426793472
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Aug 6, 2016 21:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUCnjlTfXDw&t=801s
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Aug 6, 2016 21:12
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Josef bugman posted:Maybe if there was an actual accountability that didn't mean you have to flee the country when you tell people about the bad poo poo your country is doing. Why would the government try and enforce whistleblower laws in cases against themselves? That just fucks them over. They're never gonna admit weakness and will do any hypocritical thing to keep themselves in power.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:13
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iospace posted:Caveat: more military /spending/. Our military right now is all volunteer, with the ability to draft if needed. About $23.5 billion per year in 2070 dollars(assuming the program's life is 2006-2070). So if we go ahead and knock off $24 billion from the US Defense spending, it's still $5 billion more than the total of the other countries.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:14
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Pollyanna posted:Why would the government try and enforce whistleblower laws in cases against themselves? That just fucks them over. They're never gonna admit weakness and will do any hypocritical thing to keep themselves in power. Because it's the right thing to... You know even I can't finish that sentiment. It'd be nice if that was the case though, and a stronger case could probably be made by someone smarter than me.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:18
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fits my needs posted:Are you that poster who pretends to be a black guy to give your posts more weight? Thanks for making this post, everyone who's ever made it has turned out to be or already obviously was a huge loving idiot, so thanks for making it clear for everyone.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:19
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loving savage  The Hillary Campaign's attack ad game is on point, and it's just "Literally state what Trump has said and done"
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Aug 6, 2016 21:21
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Mr Interweb posted:I have a bad feeling that "short circuit" line is going to get a lot of play in the media in the coming days. Hillary really couldn't have said anything dumber. She sucks at handling the email stuff and then just made it worse.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:21
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Lemming posted:Thanks for making this post, everyone who's ever made it has turned out to be or already obviously was a huge loving idiot, so thanks for making it clear for everyone. An apologist for ending civil liberties who assumes any black person who talks back to him must be faking blackness just to piss him off. You so rarely see the Full Zoux pulled out these days!
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Aug 6, 2016 21:23
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fits my needs posted:Are you that poster who pretends to be a black guy to give your posts more weight? You just said the secret word!! 
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Aug 6, 2016 21:24
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Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:Hillary really couldn't have said anything dumber. She sucks at handling the email stuff and then just made it worse. The election might as well be on hold until the Olympics are over. It's a non-starter.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:27
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weekly font posted:The election might as well be on hold until the Olympics are over. It's a non-starter. I think that softens it a little bit but it's still a stupid gently caress up, especially since there's already a ton of conspiracy theories about her having had strokes and seizures.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:32
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It's not great that she can't seem to be able to put the emails to bed, or rather, keeps stepping into it in awkward ways. She probably knows and feels personally that the whole thing is bullshit and essentially saw Comey's statement as vindication but she needs to find a better tone to approach the issue. Given that this is the only chink in her armour I hope the campaign spends time honing the response. I guess part of it is that the media clings onto it because there's nothing else while Trump is a walking disaster.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:35
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