CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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Mad Hamish: Jun 15, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

A Typical Goon posted:

I hope Trudeau never wears a shirt again. Just for the hot takes

This would be fantastic, but it could be a dangerous precedent to set. What if we get a non-bangable Prime Minister?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 14:07

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# ? May 29, 2024 14:23

Guy DeBorgore: Apr 6, 1994; Catnip is the opiate of the masses; Soiled Meat

It's really funny to me that budget and staffing levels for a particular government department is a hot topic here. Personally I bail on any conversation as soon as Main vs Supplemental Estimates comes up.

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

LPC could have reversed any cuts it wanted in 2016 Budget.

That wouldn't show up in the department's employment for FY 2016-17.

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

Interestingly, the RPP also forecasts significant budget cuts over the next few years:

2016�17 $902M
2017�18 $871M
2018�19 $815M

http://ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=6ACA5FAE-1&offset=2&toc=show#s1.6

The RPP doesn't forecast anything, it just shows the department's future spending based on current allocations. I think most departments' RPPs show spending dropping off in future years, as ad-hoc programs from previous budgets expire.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 14:07

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

Mad Hamish posted:

This would be fantastic, but it could be a dangerous precedent to set. What if we get a non-bangable Prime Minister?

What, you don't go for the poosay?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 14:51

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

Guy DeBorgore posted:

It's really funny to me that budget and staffing levels for a particular government department is a hot topic here. Personally I bail on any conversation as soon as Main vs Supplemental Estimates comes up.

That wouldn't show up in the department's employment for FY 2016-17.

The RPP doesn't forecast anything, it just shows the department's future spending based on current allocations. I think most departments' RPPs show spending dropping off in future years, as ad-hoc programs from previous budgets expire.

Certainly it would have, had the LPC been so inclined. DFO's RPP for 2016-2017 reflects the reopening of Kitsilano. It will be interesting to see if there's an update following Supps A.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 15:50

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

I've been back in Alberta for the last 10 days visiting some family, and everyone's grumbling about the PPA (power purchase arrangement) lawsuits the governments been throwing down. It's classic 'die in a fire' politics where everything about it sucks. On one hand, gently caress energy companies and last minute lobbying. On the other hand, Jesus Christ Notley, was there not a single person in the NDP who read the fine print on some of these contracts? I know that it's a one sentence clause from a document from 15 years ago, but given that it's loving Alberta you probably have dozens of people on your staff who are supposed to be experts in energy law. Or is knowing about existing energy laws and provincial contracts something that you only worry about if you're a Conservative? gently caress.

I'm totally sympathetic to the NDP's goals of bumping up the carbon taxes a bit, but suing companies for getting out of contracts by using a clause that you forgot was there is loving amateur hour.

Summary for people who aren't Albertans/don't care about political minutae here: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/albertas-complex-power-purchase-arrangements-and-the-ndp-lawsuit-explained

Dunno if you guys already talked about this a bit, I'm out of the loop.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 15:51

Homeroom Fingering: Apr 25, 2009; The secret history (((they))) don't want you to know

attackmole posted:

Dunno if you guys already talked about this a bit, I'm out of the loop.

No, that sounds like actual news regarding politics. Instead they spent time arguing back and forth about if a bus driver who gets spit on should or should not punch the one who spit.

I like the "In its court filing, the government says cabinet ministers only learned about the more unprofitable provision in March of this year" part. Wouldn't want to know the complete ins and outs of legal agreements in your province until after you're elected and try to change things.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 17:07

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

Foote continues to have problems with her department; it seems that she still has a good enough relationship with officials that they're not throwing her directly under the bus ("top bureaucrats can't remember if they informed her" doesn't directly contradict her assertion that she was given the okay by officials), but I wager that's not far off.

Also, for those keeping track (CI, Rust Martialis, Furnaceface, Jordan7hm, tagesschau, PT6A, OSI bean dip), officials testified before the House GOE committee two weeks ago that there wouldn't have been a problem with delaying the launch of Phoenix, so it looks like you've got some crow to eat.

Unions criticize Foote�s performance throughout Phoenix fiasco, claim she�s �disingenuous� on what she knew posted:

The two biggest federal public service unions say Public Services Minister Judy Foote has been inaccessible throughout the Phoenix fiasco pay system and that she�s being �disingenuous� about how much she knew about the issues facing the payroll program that has affected more than 80,000 public servants.

The Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) and the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada (PIPSC) told The Hill Times they have not been able to meet with Ms. Foote (Bonavista-Burin-Trinity, N.L.) for months. Combined, the unions represent more than 225,000 federal employees.

�We�ve been relegated, if you will, to the deputy minister [Marie Lemay], but no lack of trying on our part,� said PIPSC president Debi Daviau.

PSAC national executive vice-president Chris Aylward said that back in June he was told the minister would meet with him, but that meeting has not yet been scheduled.

�We�re dismayed with the minister�s involvement on this,� Mr. Aylward said.

Phoenix is the government�s new enterprise-wide payroll system that has left more than 80,000 of the federal government�s 300,000 employees with problems with their paycheques, most of whom won�t see their issues resolved for months. The government says it should be resolved by the end of October.

Ms. Foote has previously told The Hill Times she wants to fix the problem as soon as possible, but has said that she was told the new computerized pay system was ready when it was not. �I was told things were ready to go. � People who have been working on this since 2009 assured me we didn�t have to worry,� Ms. Foote told CBC News Network�s Power & Politics on July 28.

Ms. Daviau said this claim was �disingenuous� because PIPSC had written directly to the minister expressing a number of concerns with Phoenix�s issues.

�The minister�s response to us expressing our concerns in writing was to have us meet with the deputy minister so you would think that that would then result in the deputy minister bringing additional details to the minister,� said Ms. Daviau. �So I actually find it difficult to believe that the minister was not aware that such broad concerns had been expressed about the readiness to move to the next phase. � It would appear that she is not present at all if she�s unaware of these concerns that were broadly voiced.�

The system was first set to launch last July ahead of the election call, and then again in October, both times the department�specifically associate assistant deputy minister of accounting, banking and compensation Rosanna Di Paola, who had been its main point of contact�listened and agreed with PSAC�s suggestion to wait, but attempts to halt it rolling out in February were unsuccessful, as were pleas from both PSAC and PIPSC (whose members at this point started to experience pay issues) in April when the remaining users were migrated over.

�Foote was appointed in [November], which was prior to the rollout of Phoenix. � She was the minister when it was rolled out and she could have slowed it down as we had requested. She could have listened to our warnings that were given that this simply is not going to work, and she chose not to do that,� said Mr. Aylward.

Ms. Lemay has only been in the deputy minister position since April 11. She told reporters two weeks ago that top bureaucrats responsible for the Phoenix pay system couldn�t recall if they had briefed Ms. Foote on the problems flagged. As well, during the House Government Operations and Estimates Committee emergency meeting on Phoenix on July 28, department officials confirmed there would have been no immediate consequence to holding off.

Ms. Foote did not appear at that meeting, despite being in town. Liberal MPs on the committee blocked a motion inviting her to testify. Instead, Ms. Lemay, Ms. Di Paola, and associate deputy minister Gavin Liddy testified.

�So where is the minister on this? The minister can say they�re doing everything humanly possible to fix this, which is good, but her absence and her lack of visibility on this file is very upsetting and it�s not very encouraging at all,� Mr. Aylward said.

Ms. Daviau also appeared in a later panel at the emergency meeting, but sat through the officials� testimony. She said she detected �protectionism� over the decisions made and is now questioning whether the department is capable or objective enough to evaluate what went wrong, as they have promised to do, in addition to having the auditor general look into the Phoenix rollout.

The government says the department underestimated how long it would take to train staff on the new Phoenix computerized pay system. In the process of transitioning to Phoenix, PSAC estimates the number of government pay advisers was reduced from 2,700 to around 300.

As well, at the time Phoenix went live, there was already a backlog of more than 40,000 files that had to be dealt with, which PSAC said it had also warned the government about. The new automated payroll program replaces a 40-year-old payment system for all government employees.

Last week, former federal Liberal public works minister Don Boudria told The Hill Times that when he was in cabinet he would receive a dozen oral briefings some days, and with the number of files within the department, it would be impossible to keep the minister up to speed on everything.

�If you gave a one-minute briefing on every issue to the minister every day, the minister would never sleep,� he said, adding though that it�d be a different story if it was something kept from the minister intentionally.

The department�s timeline projects the bulk of pay issues won�t be resolved until Halloween. The top priority is dealing with those not getting paid at all. The government can now deal with those people within three days and they should be paid in the next pay period. The government says it will take four to six weeks to address those who are leaving the government, on or about to go on maternity leave, or long-term disability leave. The government will deal with the bulk of public servants with issues like overpay, underpay, entitlement or extra duty pay on a sliding scale, depending on the issue, between the end of September and Oct. 31.

Despite the department�s promise to conduct weekly updates on the Phoenix system, a briefing was not held last week.

�I think what�s going wrong is a disconnect between officials responsible for the implementation of Phoenix and the actual government who is making decisions, and so ill-informed decisions have been taken that are impossible to reverse and they are struggling with their resolution to these complex issues,� Ms. Daviau said.

The unions say its members are not getting their issues addressed any faster, and some are expanding. As an example, Mr. Aylward said there are members who are not getting paid, meaning neither are their benefit premiums, resulting in lost medical coverage.

Ms. Daviau said the government seems committed to the problem, but PIPSC members are �finding it absolutely unacceptable and completely insufficient.� She says she�s started to hear about how the pay problems have had a chilling effect on people�s spending, even among those without pay issues because they feel it could eventually be them, and this is trickling down to local economies, including Ottawa�s.

The Phoenix system was projected to save the government $67.2-million a year, but it�s costing the government between $15-million and $20-million to address the problem and it�s expected to increase as time goes on. In the week between the last two briefings, an additional 589 cases of pay problems among workers were reported.

New last week, PIPSC has begun offering assistance to students caught up in the pay fiasco. The students are non-unionized workers, meaning they don�t have the same support or backing as most public servants trying to get paid. The union says it will offer advice on how to pursue resolving Phoenix cases and refer critical cases to the government.

http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/08/08...-she-knew/76112

# ? Aug 8, 2016 17:41

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

Foote continues to have problems with her department; it seems that she still has a good enough relationship with officials that they're not throwing her directly under the bus ("top bureaucrats can't remember if they informed her" doesn't directly contradict her assertion that she was given the okay by officials), but I wager that's not far off.

Also, for those keeping track (CI, Rust Martialis, Furnaceface, Jordan7hm, tagesschau, PT6A, OSI bean dip), officials testified before the House GOE committee two weeks ago that there wouldn't have been a problem with delaying the launch of Phoenix, so it looks like you've got some crow to eat.

What. I have never spoken about Phoenix in here.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 17:45

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

OSI bean dip posted:

I remember the last time someone went on about being an IT expert in this thread.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 17:48

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

The LPC reopened the Kitsilano coast guard station and provisioned it with new boats. If there's a will, there's a way. In this case, there's no will (Just like C-51, it seems).

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Kitsilano costs under a million a year to operate. I could be out to lunch but I doubt they got a new cutter. The old one would have been winterized and left plugged in on the hard, Assets Disposal doesn't move fast enough for even her name and numbers to be painted out yet. I don't think they had more than a couple of Rigid Hull Inflatables down there. They would need to be replaced because they have a limited shelf life and CCG drives them like maniacs when they're working, but a new RHIB is only slightly more than a year's worth of PhD with benefits.

Re-staffing would involve shuffling staff from Sea Island. Bit of a bitch and the overtime budget might take a hit, but from the stories I've heard about turnover keeping that base covered has always been a challenge.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 18:28

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

Hexigrammus posted:

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Kitsilano costs under a million a year to operate. I could be out to lunch but I doubt they got a new cutter. The old one would have been winterized and left plugged in on the hard, Assets Disposal doesn't move fast enough for even her name and numbers to be painted out yet. I don't think they had more than a couple of Rigid Hull Inflatables down there. They would need to be replaced because they have a limited shelf life and CCG drives them like maniacs when they're working, but a new RHIB is only slightly more than a year's worth of PhD with benefits.

Re-staffing would involve shuffling staff from Sea Island. Bit of a bitch and the overtime budget might take a hit, but from the stories I've heard about turnover keeping that base covered has always been a challenge.

Kitsilano's old Osprey was eliminated, and they got three new vessels.

The station is actually opening today (though it started operations in May).

W/r/t scientist cutbacks - given that the scientists are employed this year, and to be cut next year, any 2016 budget could have continued to fund the positions with no interruption in staffing. Fortunately, all these scientists are now free to speak their minds.

https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/762701971354550272

Fluffy Chainsaw fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Aug 8, 2016

# ? Aug 8, 2016 18:32

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

quote:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/grande-prairie-tops-list-of-most-dangerous-cities-in-canada/

The western advantage is crime and unemployment :ms:

# ? Aug 8, 2016 18:39

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Now let's see St. Louis on that same scale

# ? Aug 8, 2016 18:56

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

What is the scale of that chart

# ? Aug 8, 2016 18:57

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

It's almost as if the crime rate is tied to economic conditions and people being poor causes them to do things they wouldn't normally do?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 19:15

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

i don't even know where the gently caress grand prairie is lol

# ? Aug 8, 2016 19:18

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

how is victoria ahead of surrey, chilliwack and kelowna?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 19:34

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

the talent deficit posted:

how is victoria ahead of surrey, chilliwack and kelowna?

Victoria has a tent city and a massive homeless population.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 19:46

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

Fried Watermelon posted:

What is the scale of that chart

# of crimes per crime

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:13

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Baronjutter posted:

Victoria has a tent city and a massive homeless population.

Not having had a winter for years makes it a pretty attractive place to set up your shopping cart full of garbage.

That reminds me today's the deadline for clearing that place out, looking forward to the YouTubes.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:43

toe knee hand: Jun 20, 2012; HANSEN ON A BREAKAWAY

HONEY BADGER DON'T SCORE

namaste faggots posted:

i don't even know where the gently caress grand prairie is lol

Northwest Alberta, it's the largest city of the Peace region which spans BC and Alberta and the whole thing is in major recession from the oil and gas downturn.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:47

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

namaste faggots posted:

i don't even know where the gently caress grand prairie is lol

The chart also lists Caledon, which is not a city by anyone's definition.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:49

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

The police in red deer constantly complain about being overworked and then set up seatbelt checkstops every loving day with 10 cars sitting there waiting to write seat belt tickets.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:50

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

Also, for those keeping track (CI, Rust Martialis, Furnaceface, Jordan7hm, tagesschau, PT6A, OSI bean dip), officials testified before the House GOE committee two weeks ago that there wouldn't have been a problem with delaying the launch of Phoenix, so it looks like you've got some crow to eat.

"[N]o immediate consequence to holding off" is not the same thing as "there wouldn't have been a problem with delaying the launch" indefinitely, so nope.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:52

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

infernal machines posted:

The chart also lists Caledon, which is not a city by anyone's definition.

Also those numbers are wildly inflated thanks to Daedalus, The Mask and Wilhelmina's flagrant recidivism.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:52

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

Powershift posted:

The police in red deer constantly complain about being overworked and then set up seatbelt checkstops every loving day with 10 cars sitting there waiting to write seat belt tickets.

Why don't people in Red Deer wear their loving seatbelts?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:54

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

CLAM DOWN posted:

Why don't people in Red Deer wear their loving seatbelts?

"I just gotta be free"*

*to exit my vehicle via the windshield

# ? Aug 8, 2016 20:59

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

CLAM DOWN posted:

Why don't people in Red Deer wear their loving seatbelts?

Living in Red Deer is, obviously, not correlated with making good decisions.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:01

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

CLAM DOWN posted:

Why don't people in Red Deer wear their loving seatbelts?

So they can be thrown free to safety, obviously.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:02

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

infernal machines posted:

The chart also lists Caledon, which is not a city by anyone's definition.

Nor is Nottawasaga. LMAO. The small town police bulletins in the local paper are always amazing. They're always three cats stuck up a tree and one meth lab bust, pretty consistently. Nothing in between.

I like how the Mclean's article supports my position of doing whatever the opposite of annexing is to Alberta (kicking them out unilaterally) and trying to start over as a nation without them.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:06

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Anyone here regularly read the other national politics threads in D&D? Do they all endlessly fixate on itemizing the long lists of places and consumption habits they hate or is that some kind of uniquely Canadian quirk?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

guys shut up lets make up stupid theories on what and how the canadaian population is going to democratically vote for my pet political movement

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:09

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Helsing posted:

Anyone here regularly read the other national politics threads in D&D? Do they all endlessly fixate on itemizing the long lists of places and consumption habits they hate or is that some kind of uniquely Canadian quirk?

Other countries have real poo poo to worry about like half of their country voting for a guy who keeps asking where the button to nuke china is, or a bunch of racists voting to kick out the entire country's hotel and restaurant staff.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:19

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

namaste faggots posted:

guys shut up lets make up stupid theories on what and how the canadaian population is going to democratically vote for my pet political movement

Yeah yeah, you've got me all figured out. But take away the edgy low-effort presentation and all your opinions are just the kind of banal small-c conservative poo poo that can be found in the comments section of the Sun or CBC. Your posts are what I imagine David Brooks would sound like if he was a 19 year old engineering student posting on 4chan.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:28

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Powershift posted:

Other countries have real poo poo to worry about like half of their country voting for a guy who keeps asking where the button to nuke china is, or a bunch of racists voting to kick out the entire country's hotel and restaurant staff.

thats cool but what about your car? its fast?

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:35

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:40

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

RBC posted:

thats cool but what about your car? its fast?

No, i sold the fast car and now all i have are slow cars. I just haven't pissed anybody off enough since to earn a new title. I guess i could try here. Uhhh, Alberta is good and British Columbia is bad. *ducks*

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:44

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Powershift posted:

No, i sold the fast car and now all i have are slow cars. I just haven't pissed anybody off enough since to earn a new title. I guess i could try here. Uhhh, Alberta is good and British Columbia is bad. *ducks*

You had a fast car? I seem to remember you had a Subaru that was mostly used to store things.

Now you have a Lincoln that's so close to ironic hipsterdom it should move to Victoria and open a bed and breakfast in the trunk.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:46

Funkdreamer: Jul 15, 2005; It'll be a blast

Seat Safety Switch posted:

You had a fast car? I seem to remember you had a Subaru that was mostly used to store things.

Now you have a Lincoln that's so close to ironic hipsterdom it should move to Victoria and open a bed and breakfast in the trunk.

Couldn't it turn a higher profit as student housing

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:50

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# ? May 29, 2024 14:23

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Seat Safety Switch posted:

You had a fast car? I seem to remember you had a Subaru that was mostly used to store things.

Now you have a Lincoln that's so close to ironic hipsterdom it should move to Victoria and open a bed and breakfast in the trunk.

In relation to the FRS which is what earned me the avatar, the 540 was fast.

If i parked the Lincoln in Vancouver i could rent out the front seat and back seat as individual bedrooms.

# ? Aug 8, 2016 21:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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