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LastInLine posted:This is becoming quite a derail, but there were at least two broken updates I've read about in the last year and driver rollbacks are common, again from what I've read. Obviously some of these things only happen if you automatically install recommended updates but, again, that's my point. You can't trust their recommendations. The only busted update I've even seen news about has been the one where ASUS had to own up to shipping motherboards with secure boot enabled by default at a time when it wasn't even supported by the flagship version of Windows. Not only is that an ASUS issue and not a Windows one, it wasn't an issue for anyone who had upgraded to Windows 10 in the several months it'd been available by that time. The rest of the "UPDATE OF DEATH" scares have been hyperbolic whining about getting asked to upgrade to Windows 10. It's almost like the reasoning for avoiding updates is circular - avoid updating until absolutely unavoidable, get burned because your hardware is janky and you forgot to take a skim through the BIOS when you built it, blame the update for breaking your jank. Rinse, repeat, grow up to be an IT director of a company who gets their data jacked six ways from Sunday because your paranoia means all the workstations are running XP and IE8 with a 5 year old Java build you can't patch because your admin backend won't work without it.
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Aug 11, 2016 07:35
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FAUXTON posted:all the workstations are running XP and IE8 with a 5 year old Java build you can't patch because your admin backend won't work without it. Please don't talk about my employer that way.
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Aug 11, 2016 10:05
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LastInLine posted:Please don't talk about my employer that way. I'd advise getting out like I did, they're realizing their former parent company covered a hell of a lot of transaction and content monitoring/reg reporting for the both of them and none of the pre-split fiscal projections considered the need to purchase and staff a whole extra operations site to handle the load.
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Aug 11, 2016 10:20
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isndl posted:It's not streamlined until it can install updates without requiring a reboot. This is why I don't like auto update. I turn my computers off and have no problem installing updates at the end of the day. If I'm leaving my computer running, it's because I have some things open that I want to save and I don't appreciate waking up in the morning to find a freshly booted machine. Even worse if I set my computer to hibernate and find that Windows turned it back on, installed an update, and rebooted.
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Aug 11, 2016 11:43
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LastInLine posted:And yet with the exception of firmware updates and point releases, macOS has done it for years.
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Aug 11, 2016 12:19
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I've learned a lot about Windows and macOS in the last few pages of the Android thread. I am picking up a Shield later to migrate a Plex server to. I am excited to be able to play Cities Skylines again without my wife complaining.
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Aug 11, 2016 12:19
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Hoo boy, I'm ready to learn about nvidia hardware and citybuilder games in the android thread!
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Aug 11, 2016 12:48
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FAUXTON posted:Hoo boy, I'm ready to learn about nvidia hardware and citybuilder games in the android thread! Nvidia hardware running... Android?
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Aug 11, 2016 12:54
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The Merkinman posted:And yet, if I ignore all the times I have to reboot, I never have to reboot! Four times a year isn't unreasonable. There's no reason security updates or anything other than a new OS should require a reboot. Given the number of updates that happen silently (I can only see the last 30 days but right now I have 4) it's worlds better than it could be. It doesn't hurt that when it does shut down to update that rebooting doesn't take much longer than a resume from hibernation and all of your windows are reopened right to where you left them. Most of those four yearly updates happen also without me noticing until I realize that the forums pages I have open are marked as read rather than unread. FAUXTON posted:I'd advise getting out like I did, they're realizing their former parent company covered a hell of a lot of transaction and content monitoring/reg reporting for the both of them and none of the pre-split fiscal projections considered the need to purchase and staff a whole extra operations site to handle the load. My job doesn't deal with computers and I overstated things a little--we're on Windows 7 (as of recently), but Java 5 and IE8 are of course the best they can do. No one uses IE except for one critical app they don't want to redo which requires ActiveX (!) so everything else is done in Chrome which is administered and provided. Mr. Powers posted:I've learned a lot about Windows and macOS in the last few pages of the Android thread. Well the same problem is common in Android but there the reason the is because apps change and get lovely or remove features and I'll be honest, that's at least understandable. There have been too many examples of a popular app getting scooped up so it can be changed into the latest malware distribution platform. The best thing about Windows 10 is the forced updates getting people used to not having the option to defer. I'm just saying that if you're going to do that, you should do it right and to their credit it seems to work more often than not which is pretty amazing given the breadth of hardware variations in the ecosystem.
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Aug 11, 2016 13:14
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Android security updates are the worst because they take maybe a minute to install and then 30 minutes recompiling apps. I look forward to N's JIT/AOT implementation eliminating this.
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Aug 11, 2016 13:25
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So do we actually have any idea when N's coming out? Seemed like everyone was just expecting it with the August security patch, but it's not. I'm getting ever closer to just installing the developer preview out of impatience.
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Aug 11, 2016 13:33
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Its good to go, feels pretty finished to me
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Aug 11, 2016 14:06
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chippy posted:So do we actually have any idea when N's coming out? Seemed like everyone was just expecting it with the August security patch, but it's not. I'm getting ever closer to just installing the developer preview out of impatience. The first phone to ship with it is coming out next month. So maybe before then?
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Aug 11, 2016 14:09
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LastInLine posted:Four times a year isn't unreasonable. Looking at the update history of El Capitan, it's also likely not true. There have already been 4 point releases of El Capitan this year, each of which would have required a reboot and there's still 4 months left of 2016. It looks like there were 6 point releases last year. So, OS X is on a every other month reboot schedule rather than once a month. It's an improvement from a disruption standpoint, but it's also a matter of scheduling. If you go through the CVE list of the last update (July) there are a number of vulnerabilities that were disclosed after the May update that could have been patched in June had there been one. OSs all face the same issue. A lot of times vulnerabilities are cross platform. If the update is to a critical piece of code that the machine uses all the time, a restart will be required. The only real differentiator is what your update cadence is and how the systems reacts post update. It sounds like OS X does a fine job of putting you back to what you were doing (at least from a browser and window perspective) which is good, but windows also does that to a certain extent as well as does ChromeOS. It's a compromise no matter what you do. You can update less frequently which is less disruptive to users, but you also run with unpatched vulnerabilities longer. That may be a perfectly valid approach depending on how quickly those vulnerabilities gain active exploits, but it's still a compromise.
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Aug 11, 2016 14:25
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chippy posted:So do we actually have any idea when N's coming out? Seemed like everyone was just expecting it with the August security patch, but it's not. I'm getting ever closer to just installing the developer preview out of impatience. I've been running the developer preview for about a week now, and it's fine. No hiccups or problems of any sort. Though that brings up a related question. I know if I back out of the beta program and roll back to the last official Android release, it factory resets my phone. Does anyone know what's going to happen with beta participants when N is properly released, though?
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Aug 11, 2016 15:07
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I think most people believe N will be released next week.
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Aug 11, 2016 15:15
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How is Android at this point in terms of restoring a device after a reset? I haven't done one in awhile; will it reinstall all my apps along with their data, or is it still a roll of the dice like it always has been? I'm talking on a Nexus device, everything up to date.
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Aug 11, 2016 15:23
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Luchadork posted:How is Android at this point in terms of restoring a device after a reset? I haven't done one in awhile; will it reinstall all my apps along with their data, or is it still a roll of the dice like it always has been? I'm talking on a Nexus device, everything up to date. Roll of the dice
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Aug 11, 2016 15:39
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chippy posted:So do we actually have any idea when N's coming out? Seemed like everyone was just expecting it with the August security patch, but it's not. I'm getting ever closer to just installing the developer preview out of impatience.
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Aug 11, 2016 15:44
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FWIW, I'm ok with "derails" like the Windows/MacOS derail as long as they're at the level of "OS/software updates are problematic because of X, Y, Z" because of the obvious applicability to Android...as long as everyone keeps in mind the actual point of the thread. FWIW, part deux, I'm also ok with how Windows10 and how it does updates. I mean, I hate the forced reboots because it interferes with how I've used my PC for decades (I leave it on 24/7 with work open, windows arranged, etc), but I understand the need for it and Android needs to head in the same direction.
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Aug 11, 2016 15:55
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Thermopyle posted:FWIW, part deux, I'm also ok with how Windows10 and how it does updates. I mean, I hate the forced reboots because it interferes with how I've used my PC for decades (I leave it on 24/7 with work open, windows arranged, etc), but I understand the need for it and Android needs to head in the same direction. I'm okay with rebooting my phone because I hardly ever need to save a specific state. I just don't want it to do so overnight, though, cause I need to unlock the encryption before it boots. Sucks waking up to a password lock screen.
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Aug 11, 2016 16:06
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Mr. Powers posted:Android security updates are the worst because they take maybe a minute to install and then 30 minutes recompiling apps. I look forward to N's JIT/AOT implementation eliminating this.
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Aug 11, 2016 16:22
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The Merkinman posted:Isn't the long term solve for this issue in Android actually having two versions of the OS installed a la ChromeOS? I also like how ART switched to us away from JIT, and N moves us back to JIT. lol.
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Aug 11, 2016 16:56
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Luchadork posted:How is Android at this point in terms of restoring a device after a reset? I haven't done one in awhile; will it reinstall all my apps along with their data, or is it still a roll of the dice like it always has been? I'm talking on a Nexus device, everything up to date. Nexus 6P is the first Nexus device that I've owned. It's also the first Android device I've owned that restored ALL of my apps from both of my accounts without me having to go figure out which apps it chose NOT to install for seemingly no reason. However, this was using Android's "set up nearby device" feature. If you're not going from one Android device to another (for instance, just factory resetting your own device), that might be a different story.
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Aug 11, 2016 18:15
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Thermopyle posted:FWIW, I'm ok with "derails" like the Windows/MacOS derail as long as they're at the level of "OS/software updates are problematic because of X, Y, Z" because of the obvious applicability to Android...as long as everyone keeps in mind the actual point of the thread. I dunno; Windows 10 freaked me right out when it installed Candy Crush Saga and Minecraft and put it in my start menu without permission or notification (other than suddenly showing up). I disabled that "feature" with a GP/registry hack that I believe isn't allowed anymore as of Anniversary edition. Can you himagine if Android did that?
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Aug 11, 2016 19:14
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Scaramouche posted:. Can you himagine if Android did that? I hope you are being sarcastic since that sort of thing happens quite frequently with Android.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:18
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Scaramouche posted:I dunno; Windows 10 freaked me right out when it installed Candy Crush Saga and Minecraft and put it in my start menu without permission or notification (other than suddenly showing up). I disabled that "feature" with a GP/registry hack that I believe isn't allowed anymore as of Anniversary edition. Can you himagine if Android did that? Are you sure Windows installed the games and those weren't just links to the games in the Windows Store? edit: not that that is that much better
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Aug 11, 2016 19:53
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Vykk.Draygo posted:Are you sure Windows installed the games and those weren't just links to the games in the Windows Store? Nope, I cleaned all the crap ware off the machine when I started, fixed the drivers (btw a HP desktop with Windows 10 pre installed did not and still does not have working wifi drivers) and then it popped up one day. I thought the guys in the shop had got in and started screwing around but nope, full install with download of close to 500mb of stuff. One good thing is the Win 10 programs control panel lets you sort by date installed now so they're easy to find.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:00
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Oh I see your problem. Hint: it's not windows
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Aug 11, 2016 20:05
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Endless Mike posted:Oh I see your problem. Hint: it's not windows http://winaero.com/blog/fix-windows-10-installs-apps-like-candy-crush-soda-saga-automatically/ ? I'll end the derail there.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:09
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With the new Nexus devices on the horizon, has Google improved their ability to handle launch-day orders? I'm planning on upgrading my Nexus 4 but I remember it's launch being a shitshow when trying to place an order.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:10
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Hughmoris posted:With the new Nexus devices on the horizon, has Google improved their ability to handle launch-day orders? I'm planning on upgrading my Nexus 4 but I remember it's launch being a shitshow when trying to place an order.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:26
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Scaramouche posted:Can you himagine if Android did that? Yes. It's pretty common. In fact, I personally see little difference between this and other things that different OS's including Windows and Android have changed/updated with automatic updates for years. Really, your OS is nothing more than a collection of bits that your vendor is in control of and what those bits actually are varies over time and definitely doesn't stay the same from the time you purchase the device or OS.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:53
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Scaramouche posted:Nope, I cleaned all the crap ware off the machine when I started, fixed the drivers (btw a HP desktop with Windows 10 pre installed did not and still does not have working wifi drivers) and then it popped up one day. I thought the guys in the shop had got in and started screwing around but nope, full install with download of close to 500mb of stuff. One good thing is the Win 10 programs control panel lets you sort by date installed now so they're easy to find.  how do you gently caress up card games, microsoft?!)And yeah, google and device manufacturers put plenty of crapware on android devices from the factory.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:12
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I installed Android and it automatically put Gmail and Calendar in my app drawer, ugh all this crapware 
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Aug 12, 2016 03:00
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just lol if you still have an app drawer
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Aug 12, 2016 03:09
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I have an iPhone SE. Why should I "upgrade" to Android? What does Android have to offer me?
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Aug 12, 2016 03:35
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Citizen Tayne posted:I have an iPhone SE. Why should I "upgrade" to Android? What does Android have to offer me? You shouldn't.
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Aug 12, 2016 03:36
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Thermopyle posted:You shouldn't. Okay, thanks!
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Aug 12, 2016 03:38
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Sir Unimaginative posted:1) Stop putting off your loving updates. I was mainly thinking of Steam games updates. Windows Pro lets you defer updates indefinitely with some registry tweaks. Typically I just leave steam on in the background. It's been a while but I can remember getting some 700+ MB updates for TF2 and other games too when a big patch comes out. Games don't get big patches too often but I have ~50 games installed, it's easy to blow through my 2GB budget accidentally. I'm sure there are other crazy data hogs. Sir Unimaginative posted:2) You can set an access point as metered. In Windows 10, in Settings > Network > Wi-Fi, select your cell phone access point and there'll be a 'metered network' toggle in there. Cool, I will give this a try. Does anyone know if Steam etc checks/respects this setting?
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Aug 12, 2016 03:58
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