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I always figured that the nacelles were designed that way for easy replacement
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Aug 12, 2016 09:48
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Ambassador class or  
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Aug 12, 2016 09:49
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I never realized how much wrong a thread on the internet could contain until I started seeing you people saying bad things about the Excelsior.
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Aug 12, 2016 09:51
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MikeJF posted:I like a lot of things about the study model more than the final thing, to be honest. All I see is "space cruise liner". Wikkheiser posted:Ambassador class or It's a good gap bridging between TOS' Enterprise and TNG's, it's like a fusion of the two.
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Aug 12, 2016 09:52
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MikeJF posted:I like a lot of things about the study model more than the final thing, to be honest.
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Aug 12, 2016 09:55
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The Excelsior is the F-35 of starfleet ships; ugly, bloated, and incapable of functioning as advertised
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Aug 12, 2016 10:08
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Excelsior is the F-35 of starfleet ships; ugly, bloated, and incapable of functioning as advertised
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Aug 12, 2016 10:15
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I mean, if your badass new warp drive can be shut down by a half-drunk scot pocketing a couple fuses...  DS9 should have been full of exploding Excelsiors instead of Mirandas.
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Aug 12, 2016 10:30
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Excelsior is the F-35 of starfleet ships; ugly, bloated, and incapable of functioning as advertised Except it's more like the stratofortress because they went ahead and used the drat things for a century.
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Aug 12, 2016 10:33
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MikeJF posted:Except it's more like the stratofortress because they went ahead and used the drat things for a century. Just lol if you don't think we'll be using the f-35 until the heat death of the universe. After all the money they've sunk into that piece of poo poo, it's the only way they'll ever get a decent return on investment.
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Aug 12, 2016 10:37
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Big Mean Jerk posted:DS9 should have been full of exploding Excelsiors instead of Mirandas. Remember the USS Melbourne! *kablooey*
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Aug 12, 2016 10:57
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WickedHate posted:It's a good gap bridging between TOS' Enterprise and TNG's, it's like a fusion of the two. Except it's supposed to be the in-between of Galaxy and Excelsior.
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Aug 12, 2016 11:16
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Are you guys trying to get George Takei in here in drop a municipal public transportation system on us? Stop talkin' smack about his ship! 
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Aug 12, 2016 13:18
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Yeah, the Excelsior and Miranda were like 100 years old by that point and were from TOS. The Miranda even shared half its parts with the Constitution and Constellation classes, yet those got phased out while Mirandas stayed in service. They still had a few Oberth-class ships in TNG as well. The Klingons are even worse in this regard and have been using the same Birds of Prey and Battlecrusiers since loving forever. Of course, this is mainly due to budget because these were the models they had. Plus naval ships in real life typically have 30-60 year lifespans, but the Excelsiors and Mirandas were old as gently caress. I like to think of the Sovereign-class as the replacement and successor to the Excelsior-class. They have a pretty similar shape and proportions, being long, skinny ships, vs. the Galaxy and Ambassador who are big and fat.
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Aug 12, 2016 15:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Excelsior is the F-35 of starfleet ships; ugly, bloated, and incapable of functioning as advertised
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Aug 12, 2016 15:31
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It was probably relatively easy to kitbash the saucer and nacelles of a constitution into a Miranda whenever the star drive section of a constitution wore out. Since the Excelsior was such a superior ship, it didn't wear out and they could just keep flying them.
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Aug 12, 2016 15:44
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qntm posted:On the face of it, the holographic communicator thing is actually a really, really good idea because dramatically speaking you can have both actors in the same physical space, acting and reacting off each other, even though technically they're standing on separate ships. It's cool that they can share the space and act their asses off, but then I thought that it kind of also dodges the premise a little bit. Once you start treating it as "being there", doesn't it sort of rob these interactions of some of the flavour provided by the setting? The universe seems small if talking to an admiral 100 light years away is the same as talking to your first officer in the chair next to you.
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Aug 12, 2016 16:21
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Dirty posted:It's cool that they can share the space and act their asses off, but then I thought that it kind of also dodges the premise a little bit. Once you start treating it as "being there", doesn't it sort of rob these interactions of some of the flavour provided by the setting? The universe seems small if talking to an admiral 100 light years away is the same as talking to your first officer in the chair next to you. Maybe... But they can have it both ways. They - by which I mean directors - can use a standard screen or the holographic thing whenever it works best for the story. And they can explain that variation away any way they like, too: variations in technological support among species, distance/lack of data for full holographic support, custom, social context, personal preference. It's just another tool in the box. But a good one, I think!
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Aug 12, 2016 17:10
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GreenNight posted:There was some good poo poo in these here threads for a while. Best thread name is still keeping up with the cardassions. I prefer Netflix's new show.  (made this over 3 years ago, I can't remember if I ever posted it here)
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Aug 12, 2016 17:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, the Excelsior and Miranda were like 100 years old by that point and were from TOS. The Miranda even shared half its parts with the Constitution and Constellation classes, yet those got phased out while Mirandas stayed in service. They still had a few Oberth-class ships in TNG as well. Pretty sure the early/production name of Sovereign class was "Excelsior II" when they were making First Contact.
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Aug 12, 2016 18:14
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I liked when everyone found out Damar made some wine commercials so people made Damar/Kanar gifs
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Aug 12, 2016 18:19
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Allen_Aldo posted:Pretty sure the early/production name of Sovereign class was "Excelsior II" when they were making First Contact. No wonder the Ent-E is so hideous.
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Aug 12, 2016 18:26
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qntm posted:Maybe... But they can have it both ways. They - by which I mean directors - can use a standard screen or the holographic thing whenever it works best for the story. And they can explain that variation away any way they like, too: variations in technological support among species, distance/lack of data for full holographic support, custom, social context, personal preference. It's just another tool in the box. But a good one, I think! They do it in Star Wars all the time, it's just that they're all blue and flickery. Big Mean Jerk posted:No wonder the Ent-E is so hideous. No, the Excelsior and Sovereign and both good looking ships you jerk. The Refit Enterprise/A is the best looking ship, though.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:08
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Gammatron 64 posted:The Refit Enterprise/A is the best looking ship, though. This is pretty much objectively true. 
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Aug 12, 2016 19:29
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Wikkheiser posted:Ambassador class or I like it but as someone else pointed out, it really is basically a halfway between the old Enterprise and the new, rather than a halfway between Excelsior and Galaxy. (mostly because they needed to simplify the model in order to get it done on time) Nessus posted:A fat belly full of science and federation freedom. That profile's not nearly accurate to Excelsior. Was that made in like 1984 by someone whose only reference was having seen the movie a month ago? I actually think Excelsior's okay (but not Ent-B, eugh, barf), but it was always funny/annoying to me how nobody could ever seem to reproduce it accurately, whether it was in video games or comic books or... schematics like what you posted, apparently. Gammatron 64 posted:The Refit Enterprise/A is the best looking ship, though. This is fact, not conjecture.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:36
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Yeah this is the Excelsior refit http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Excelsior_class_refit_MSD.jpg Not nearly as weird looking but still kind of ugly. That shuttlebay on the schematic is all sorts of wrong.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:41
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Battle bridge? Does the saucer separate or do they just have a more sensible backup bridge location for when poo poo get real?
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Aug 12, 2016 19:48
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I like Andy Probert's original Ambassador concept better than the final product: http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=28446 That said, a simpler model was made due to time and budget constraints so it couldn't be helped. I also might be in the minority, but I prefer the look of the Enterprise-B\Lakota refit over the original Excelsior. I think the extra impulse engines fill out the saucer a bit more. Of course, like many Trekkies, I really just love Federation ships period and like how a lot of them are kitbashes of each other and have stylistic "generations" - NX-01 \ NX Intrepid \ Warp Delta Constitution \ Antares \ Deadalus Constitution Refit \ Miranda \ Constellation \ Sydney Excelsior \ Centaur Ambassador Galaxy \ Nebula \ New Orleans \ Intrepid Defiant Akira \ Steamrunner Sovereign \ Nova \ Prometheus
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Aug 12, 2016 20:03
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The Excelsior engineering section on its own would look loving dumb as hell. On an unrelated note I loved the evacuation scene in Beyond. It felt incredibly real and tense. The ship is literally going down and the crew are well-trained but still struggling to make their way to the evac pods. Plus, the moment when Kirk decides to evacuate is really well done. Also, Kelvin pods.
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Aug 12, 2016 20:07
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What is it with all the early drafts of a lot of the Federation ships having the neck attach at/near the middle of the saucer? Those desgins just look awful.
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Aug 12, 2016 20:49
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Gammatron 64 posted:I like Andy Probert's original Ambassador concept better than the final product: Gosh golly, I REALLY like that Ambassador design. Does a fine job of bridging the gap between Excelsior and Galaxy classes. Star Trek Online lets you build ships in modular designs, so like the Miranda/Centaur/Soyuz(?) types would be jammed into one Type of ship and you could have the hull, sensor pod, and warp engines be from any of those 3. I have a weird appreciation for Star Trek Online even though I do'nt play anymore and the ground combat was disappointing. Space combat needed to be full 3D too, that was a whole plot point in WoK for pete's sake.
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Aug 12, 2016 20:56
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elcapjtk posted:What is it with all the early drafts of a lot of the Federation ships having the neck attach at/near the middle of the saucer? Those desgins just look awful.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:18
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That profile's not nearly accurate to Excelsior. Was that made in like 1984 by someone whose only reference was having seen the movie a month ago? Gammatron 64 posted:Of course, like many Trekkies, I really just love Federation ships period and like how a lot of them are kitbashes of each other and have stylistic "generations" - (Also, I've finally just realized that the reason they had all those weird designs in First Contact is because they didn't want anything flying around with the same silhouette as the Ent-E. Aside from the Akiras, Norways, Steamrunners, Sabers, and Defiant, the only ships from the shows we see in the battle are Nebulas and Mirandas.)
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Aug 12, 2016 21:23
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armoredgorilla posted:Gosh golly, I REALLY like that Ambassador design. Does a fine job of bridging the gap between Excelsior and Galaxy classes. It's funny you mention that though, because people in here keep talking about designs they find ugly. If you really want some ugly designs that make no sense, look no further than STO. I mean, just look at these monstrosities:          People who poo poo on the Excelsior \ Sovereign \ Galaxy \ NX-Refit \ whatever should just think of the horrible turds that cryptic designs and that should give them a little perspective.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:39
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Except for the first one, which is just poo poo all over, those look bad mainly from an aesthetics perspective, like someone threw a gritty BSG coat of paint over them. If there was no Star Trek between TOS and now, that's what I'd expect a reboot to look like.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:44
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Marshal Radisic posted:I always really liked that about Federation ships. It's a bit of a pity that these days it's easier to whip up a completely different ship on a computer than it is to stick random model parts together until something looks decent. I think some of those kitbashes have potential if you do another few passes on them. Look how the Nebula turned out, after all. Its something I appreciate, mostly due to Star Trek existing in a bigger universe so more ships are needed, and not all of them can be the same design. The kitbashes made the universe larger and showed, despite the Federation being a post scarcity society that can do drat near whatever it wants, there still is some practicality in how starships are built vs how somethings are built today. We have this really good/efficient engine design, lets make it work for all these different types of ships. My biggest gripe about the Steamrunner/Norway/Akira set of ships is that there is no design lineage, outside of the tenuous NX->Akira sorta thing. You can only have so many different takes on the Miranda/Centaur/Nebula before it gets old, and once you get to the bigger stories you gotta give a better scale to how big/varied the Federation really is. Something I'd love to see are Fed ships not designed for humanoids, how would those be different from what we've already seen?
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Aug 12, 2016 21:49
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There's a non-canon Horta crewed one. Its just full of artificial rock for them to reshape as needed.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:51
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WickedHate posted:Except for the first one, which is just poo poo all over, those look bad mainly from an aesthetics perspective, like someone threw a gritty BSG coat of paint over them. If there was no Star Trek between TOS and now, that's what I'd expect a reboot to look like. I suppose. Federation ships tend to be smooth, curvy and graceful looking. The ones cryptic designs are basically a lot of random shapes and lines thrown together at seemingly random. They're way too busy and just look like a bunch of poo poo slapped together with no rhyme or reason. elcapjtk posted:My biggest gripe about the Steamrunner/Norway/Akira set of ships is that there is no design lineage, outside of the tenuous NX->Akira sorta thing. You can only have so many different takes on the Miranda/Centaur/Nebula before it gets old, and once you get to the bigger stories you gotta give a better scale to how big/varied the Federation really is. The Norway is very ugly, but it only shows up in First Contact so that one barely even counts. I really like the Akira class, though. Aesthetically, the Akira takes parts from both the Galaxy-based line of ships and the later Sovereign-based ones. The Steamrummer has similar nacelles to the Akira, too. As far as Federation ships go, the Defiant-class is really the odd one out, but the Defiant is such a cool ship that I don't really care.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:56
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elcapjtk posted:Something I'd love to see are Fed ships not designed for humanoids, how would those be different from what we've already seen? I imagine there'd be a lot of similarity in the broad outlines of ships just because presumably they're doing the best they can within physical constraits; it's like how all ship hulls kinda look vaguely similar, how all submarines get a similar shape, etc. Trek's been kind of inconsistent about this beyond a general 'bilateral symmetry for the most part' kinda deal. I mean if the rules are 'drive motors are in pairs and parallel to each other' and 'you want to minimize drag to the front' you can still get a shitload of different designs out of that, and they'd all have a similar underlaying logic.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's funny you mention that though, because people in here keep talking about designs they find ugly. If you really want some ugly designs that make no sense, look no further than STO. I mean, just look at these monstrosities: Yeah, as someone that plays STO, I can't think of a non show/movie ship they've created that I don't immediately hate. There's a few that elicit an apathetic "meh" at best.
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Aug 12, 2016 22:00
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