Applewhite posted:

Aschlafly posted:

I feel like "don't be a dick to people when they ask you to use certain pronouns" is pretty easy, but I guess we have different conceptions of what constitutes "easy".

a dog from hell posted:

Lol. Strange territory, folks. How to act?

Applewhite posted:

Well who's infringing on whom here? Why is it "infringing" to want males and females to use the bathrooms 99.9% of the population agrees to use, but it's not infringing to barge into a space explicitly designated to exclude you just because you feel like you belong there and that exclusion isn't fair?

This is a ladies' room. It's for ladies. It may very well be that when you look at the big picture and gender theory and social psychology that "lady" is a poorly defined term and that you have as much right to be called a lady as anyone else, but the vast bulk of the population has no idea about any of that and most of them wouldn't believe it if they did. You being there is seen as a violation of their privacy.
Moreover you know that being there will upset them, but you deliberately go in anyway because their feelings aren't important.

How does the old argument for pronoun respect go? It costs you no effort to be polite so you might as well do the thing that makes the other person happy and comfortable?

Well it costs a non-passing transgender no effort to be polite and use the bathroom other people expect them to use.

Aschlafly posted:

Do transwomen get tattoos on their foreheads stating that they are, in fact, trans? I don't understand your question. People are attracted to whomever they're attracted to.

Applewhite posted:

Well who's infringing on whom here? Why is it "infringing" to want males and females to use the bathrooms 99.9% of the population agrees to use, but it's not infringing to barge into a space explicitly designated to exclude you just because you feel like you belong there and that exclusion isn't fair?

This is a ladies' room. It's for ladies. It may very well be that when you look at the big picture and gender theory and social psychology that "lady" is a poorly defined term and that you have as much right to be called a lady as anyone else, but the vast bulk of the population has no idea about any of that and most of them wouldn't believe it if they did. You being there is seen as a violation of their privacy.
Moreover you know that being there will upset them, but you deliberately go in anyway because their feelings aren't important.

How does the old argument for pronoun respect go? It costs you no effort to be polite so you might as well do the thing that makes the other person happy and comfortable?

Well it costs a non-passing transgender no effort to be polite and use the bathroom other people expect them to use.

Aschlafly posted:

Man if you're intimidated by muscles on a girl, get in the squat rack and buy some gallons of milk

8-Bit Scholar posted:

This, is also a very good point. It seems to me that the accomodations for a very small minority create incredible complications for the vast majority, and I do not see why this is prudent or ideal, particularly if the only goal is to validate the gender identity of strangers.

Secular Humanist posted:

We're all gonna be obsessing over whether or not grown men with inverted penis-vaginas should be able to poo poo in the ladies room at target when some insane mullah decides to nuke us.

Poetic Justice posted:

My real life speech is like a pot head stoner surfer and I call everyone "man" and "dude" and I like to passively aggressively call women "dudes" all the time. For ex: the sexy girl cashier at starbucks that makes 30% less than men when she gives me my drinks "Hey thanks man!" "Have a great day dude!" and i chuckle to myself evily.

a dog from hell posted:

I'm not intimidated, I find it unattractive. I am lightweight but mostly muscular. I am working on it though frankly I have more respect for being a bit fat. It has a wholesomeness to it.

Poetic Justice posted:

My real life speech is like a pot head stoner surfer and I call everyone "man" and "dude" and I like to passively aggressively call women "dudes" all the time. For ex: the sexy girl cashier at starbucks that makes 30% less than men when she gives me my drinks "Hey thanks man!" "Have a great day dude!" and i chuckle to myself evily.

a dog from hell posted:

I don't think you're a humanist at all.

Aschlafly posted:

lol "wholesomeness"

Basically, as far as I can tell, your entire argument amounts to "I don't like things I personally feel are gross" and this only further confirms it. Probably don't worry about crushing on trans women, either. Statistically speaking, you've probably found a trans woman attractive without even realizing she was trans.

Snatch Duster posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5b2hADJXWQ
drat its a good day to be a white dude

Moridin920 posted:

If you, as a person who has no real ability to definitely state whether someone is a man, woman, or in between, is telling strangers what toilet they can or can't piss in, you're being a fuckhead.

Again, your argument doesn't account for people who are NOT trans but are misidentified as such or people who have some other kind of medical issue or whatever. Or just feminine looking dudes, or masculine looking women, or whatever.

The onus is not on the trans person to figure out what bathroom you want them to use, the onus is on you to stop obsessing about other people's gender so much and just drink your drink at the bar or whatever.

a dog from hell posted:

Umm Starbucks pays minimum wage, so everyone is equal. Honestly, are you retarded or just another ignorant white collar?

Poetic Justice posted:

Bro, you need to chillax and hangten

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Well you seem to think that we can create a society where sex doesn't matter. I was curious as to whether it mattered for you.

quote:

Again, you have this theoretical society that has no bearing on reality. You're not going to be able to convince a straight man that another man is a woman.

quote:

That's why the stereotype of trans people is that they prey upon very drunk men who can't tell the difference until they're balls deep, but even then, that's hardly a good basis for a relationship, isn't it?

quote:

Have you seen Priscilla Queen of the Desert? Out of curiosity, what do you think of the main character's arc, that is that he has to accept responsibility as a father, and become a part of his son's life, despite fleeing those responsibilities and hiding behind a stage persona?

quote:

This, is also a very good point. It seems to me that the accomodations for a very small minority create incredible complications for the vast majority, and I do not see why this is prudent or ideal, particularly if the only goal is to validate the gender identity of strangers.

Snatch Duster posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5b2hADJXWQ
drat its a good day to be a white dude

quote:

Cause the way I’m livin life, is a muthafuckin joy
On some grown man B.I.
I could have been a girl
Or any ethnicity up in the world
But I’m rollin with the top back
I ain’t gotta worry where the cops at
I ain’t gotta wear a loving bra strap
Me and the crew
Are really doing everything that we like to
Man it’s a drat good day to be a white dude

quote:

Which is like, amazing because
Everybody naturally assumes I’m a great person

Moridin920 posted:

eh kinda dangerously close to 'it makes whites uncomfortable to eat around blacks so segregation isn't oppressing black people it's just protecting white people's rights to not be uncomfortable.'

Applewhite posted:

Yeah well there's a lot of fuckheads out there. Being a fuckhead isn't illegal, nor should it be.

I don't agree with any property owner who decides to enforce gendered bathrooms so I also don't agree with when he enforces it mistakenly. It's a moot point.

I do, however, believe that he should be free to enforce such rules on his own property if he wishes to expend the time and effort to do so. I consider the unfair enforcement of those policies on the undeserving to be collateral damage that person is just going to have to deal with. He's under social pressure, too.

Moridin920 posted:

it's p great


also that's so loving true it's astounding lmao

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Nobody is oppressing trans people--but nobody is saying that it's totally normal and fine for a man to wear women's clothing and go about town insisting to be called a woman either. Not validating an identity is not oppression, and you keep making this false equivalency.

Aschlafly posted:

Why would I have to? Trans women are out there in the world, not hiding in dungeons with goblins and liches. You've probably crushed on one (you might've even slept with one, GASP) without realizing she was trans. Oh the horror!

Moridin920 posted:

I mean dude how is it NOT oppressive to not validate an identity? You're literally denying that person the right to self determine their self of self that's like the definition of dehumanizing.

Moridin920 posted:

I mean look, show me some actual harm that results from letting people pee wherever. Getting upset or discomforted isn't really a good enough basis to deny people's identity..

Aschlafly posted:

Property owners who attempted to maintain racial segregation were under social pressure, too. They were on the wrong side of history.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

Lol, no, I'm extremely confident I haven't.


I identify as Napoleon Bonaparte. By not validating my identity and giving me command of the French military, you are oppressing me.

Moridin920 posted:

You're sitting there going 'no actually I have all the truths here and you're just wrong and mentally ill' and denying them their very identity and saying it isn't oppressive come on man.

Moridin920 posted:

I mean dude how is it NOT oppressive to not validate an identity? You're literally denying that person the right to self determine their sense of self that's like the definition of dehumanizing.