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how dare a company charge VAT in a country that requires it
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Aug 17, 2016 16:08
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NTRabbit posted:I for one am shocked to learn that many TG gamers expect to receive everything for nothing, with all the costs absorbed by the company. Really they ought to set the goal lower too, $100,000 could easily fund a passionate team of 20 people for a year. 5k a year each?
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Aug 17, 2016 16:14
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lol my friend just poasted Invisible Sun in our group chat asking if we be interested in going in on it with him.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:15
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It seems like every kickstarter has Europeans whining in the comments
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Aug 17, 2016 16:20
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GrandpaPants posted:Upon reflecting on my Cthulhu Wars pledge, I would say that Gods War is likely not worth it, just on the basis of cost and storage. Like, if it's close to Cthulhu Wars in terms of gameplay and mechanics, it'll be a good to great game, but actually thinking about how much money I could have spent on other games or other things in life that aren't gaming related (how vague and uncertain this statement is) just kind of upsets me in hindsight. Like I said, it probably won't be a bad game, but unless you're going to find secondary use for those miniatures, I'd probably give it a pass from a pure expense perspective. I'm kinda with you. I looked over the rules and it seems like a really cool game, and the models are nice, and Glorantha is the best setting, but it just doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:35
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I thought projects made shipping EU friendly by teaming up with a European importer to concentrate and lower the VAT costs so it ends up cheaper for Europeans. Are you telling me that each EU friendly project has actually had to eat all the VAT instead?
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Aug 17, 2016 16:38
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I thought projects made shipping EU friendly by teaming up with a European importer to concentrate and lower the VAT costs so it ends up cheaper for Europeans. Are you telling me that each EU friendly project has actually had to eat all the VAT instead? No way of knowing, but the "changed the rules" comment is telling.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:41
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Bottom Liner posted:5k a year each? Seems like a pretty fair wage, if they're not willing to work for that maybe they're just not passionate enough? It's such a privilege to work in this industry too.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:49
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I thought projects made shipping EU friendly by teaming up with a European importer to concentrate and lower the VAT costs so it ends up cheaper for Europeans. Are you telling me that each EU friendly project has actually had to eat all the VAT instead? you're not getting away without paying VAT on sales regardless of how eu friendly it is. that relates to shipping, you don't have to pay import duties and the like.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:51
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These Adventure Location Cards look like an easy way for GMs to come up with maps on the fly. The modern day pack would help me immensely with World of Darkness.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:56
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I thought projects made shipping EU friendly by teaming up with a European importer to concentrate and lower the VAT costs so it ends up cheaper for Europeans. Are you telling me that each EU friendly project has actually had to eat all the VAT instead? No. They will have charged the VAT, if they are smart at least. EU friendly projects are shipped from inside the EU, and so don't incur import duties as well as sales tax.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:03
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Okay, so if the games weren't produced in Europe then at some stage VAT had to be paid?
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Aug 17, 2016 17:04
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Okay, so if the games weren't produced in Europe then at some stage VAT had to be paid? No, wherever the games were produced then at some stage the local sales tax was paid by you. What changes is whether the game was being sold at a price with that in mind. Example: UK VAT is 20%. If the pledge level is $300 inclusive of taxes, everyone pays $300 but the actual cost to UK backers is $250 and the remainder is VAT. If it is exclusive of taxes, the UK backer will pay an additional $60 and backers in other regions will pay whatever their local sales tax may be.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:Isn't Torment pretty far behind schedule? Not that I fault Monte Cook for that. Even video game kickstarters that aren't obvious scams always wildly miss their target release dates. Serf posted:I actually bought the RPG based on how interesting the videogame looked, but it turned out to be dogshit. That pretty much killed my interest in the videogame.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:16
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Bottom Liner posted:5k a year each? You're right, that's way too much. With that much money, they should be able to pay the team for 60 years.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:22
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Pillars of Eternity board game has arrived at my house, expect fulfillment soon if you pledged
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Aug 17, 2016 17:25
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Jedit posted:No, wherever the games were produced then at some stage the local sales tax was paid by you. What changes is whether the game was being sold at a price with that in mind. Aha, so EU-friendly means either all the non-EU backers paid for it or the project makers did? That really sucks... I wish there were solutions to all the global shipping woes we have. e: I'd say 'Globalization Now' but obviously it's much more complex than just cheaper shipping prices Zanzibar Ham fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 17:25
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Aha, so EU-friendly means either all the non-EU backers paid for it or the project makers did? That really sucks... I wish there were solutions to all the global shipping woes we have. EU friendly literally means nothing more than "shipped from inside the EU, therefore backers do not pay import fees." EU-friendly or not, someone has to pay sales tax on a sale made to the resident of a country with sales tax.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:27
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But how did it get to the EU in the first place if it wasn't produced there? At some point it was shipped to the EU, wasn't it?
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Aug 17, 2016 17:33
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It is handled by a shipping company in bulk and goes to a fulfilment centre via a route that does not require them to pay additional fees to customs at the border, because the shipping company people ship stuff around the world for a living.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 17:40
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Okay. So basically the problem isn't actually import fees, but the fact they add VAT to anything that's worth around 20+ bucks (I remember some value close to that being the Magic Number Europeans mention)? I guess I'm lucky I don't have to pay VAT as long as what I ship is worth below $75, on the other hand I generally pay more for shipping. e: by the way thanks for the patience, I've been suffering from tiredness for a long time now and it certainly doesn't help me comprehend things
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Aug 17, 2016 17:46
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I don't understand a word that was said. Glad I'm American and don't have to worry about poo poo like that. 
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Aug 17, 2016 18:00
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Okay. So basically the problem isn't actually import fees, but the fact they add VAT to anything that's worth around 20+ bucks (I remember some value close to that being the Magic Number Europeans mention)? I guess I'm lucky I don't have to pay VAT as long as what I ship is worth below $75, on the other hand I generally pay more for shipping. VAT is added to everything that isn't specifically VAT-exempt. The things that are VAT-exempt include books (but not e-books) as well as a variety of goods considered essential for living. The exact nature of what is VAT-exempt and what isn't varies from country to country, just like the exact VAT percentage (although it tends to be around 20% everywhere). Customs charges are levied on anything shipped to a country from outside that country that has a value above an amount that is, again, specific to each country. In the UK, the value is £15 for purchased items, and IIRC £35 for gifts. As EU member countries are part of a common market, the customs fees are waived when shipping things from one member country to another.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:13
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I don't understand a word that was said. Glad I'm American and don't have to worry about poo poo like that. Basically VAT is a sales tax, sales tax is supposed to be paid at the point of sale by the purchaser, so middlemen (shipping companies, etc) don't pay it, but you, the consumer, do. The problem is previous KS campaigns people were just eating the VAT instead of passing it along to the consumer (all inclusive pricing) instead of adjusting their pledge totals up to account for VAT and still charging the same base amount to everyone (tax not included pricing). Which meant that the people running the KS got less money from Euro pledges, sometimes substantially less. Since that isn't a sustainable business model, here we are.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:19
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The law in my country specifically says I don't need to pay VAT for any shipment I take that's valued at below $75, except for some specific products like tobacco and alcohol. And as long as it's below some $500 or so then there's no customs fee, though there is VAT.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:19
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Lemon-Lime posted:VAT is added to everything that isn't specifically VAT-exempt. The things that are VAT-exempt include books (but not e-books) as well as a variety of goods considered essential for living. What's this "as well as" poo poo?
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Aug 17, 2016 18:20
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NTRabbit posted:Seems like a pretty fair wage, if they're not willing to work for that maybe they're just not passionate enough? It's such a privilege to work in this industry too. I can't tell if you're joking or not.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:21
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Jedit posted:What's this "as well as" poo poo? Books are not quite on the same level as staple food items when it comes to ensuring your continued survival.  Bottom Liner posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not. 
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Aug 17, 2016 18:23
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Kwyndig posted:Basically VAT is a sales tax, sales tax is supposed to be paid at the point of sale by the purchaser, so middlemen (shipping companies, etc) don't pay it, but you, the consumer, do. I decided to consult the Simple English wiki to help me understand, and I'm still finding this hard to grasp: Simple English wiki on VAT posted:The tax can be complicated to work out, because every business or person has to charge the tax, and have an invoice to show they have paid some tax. The only person who pays the full amount of tax is the customer of the shop. What does it mean by "pays the full amount of tax", is it meaning the VAT was say $20, the maker, wholesaler, and shop pay a portion of that equaling $20, while the customer pays another $20?
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Aug 17, 2016 18:33
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Presumably it means that EU middlemen have to pay the tax on whatever they've bought, but then get to charge the tax down the line and get credited whatever they were taxed. As opposed to the US wholesaler model, where you can get a license to not pay/charge sales tax to and from middlemen.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:59
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I decided to consult the Simple English wiki to help me understand, and I'm still finding this hard to grasp: nah it effectively turns business into a tax collector so businesses charge the customer for their product and include the VAT/sales tax in the price. The consumer pays and the business keeps track of how much tax they're holding on to for the government and fork it over at the end of every tax year. When businesses buy from other businesses it's not VAT-able, only the final consumer pays the sales tax. IIRC there's no sales tax on second-hand items either, the only person who pays the VAT is the first purchaser.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:59
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Saint Isaias Boner posted:how dare a company charge VAT in a country that requires it Reaper deliberately tried to defraud UK HMRC (The tax man) even when explicitly asked to provide a truthful statement to get the stuff my group had ordered out of seizure because shockingly the customs guys didn't believe that a smallish box and one 5 times the size both cost $100 and started grabbing all of them to hold and assess vat and customs charges on. PST fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 19:01
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i got around that with my kickstarter by being broke but all that meant was that i was paying VAT on stuff the suppliers were sending me and passing that cost on to backers. Businesses here can't charge VAT (and basically don't count as businesses) until turnover's about 80k.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:01
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I decided to consult the Simple English wiki to help me understand, and I'm still finding this hard to grasp: The way I understand it is this: VAT has to be charged at the point of sale. If I, Local Game Store Inc., sell a copy of Ultra Boardgame (RRP £100) to a customer I've got two choices:
Either way, I have to hold onto that extra £20 until tax season comes around and I fork it over to our godawful Tory overlords. The complexity comes in because VAT only needs to be paid once. So when Alliance Games sells me that copy of Ultra Boardgame to stock in my store, they don't need to worry about VAT. They do, however, need to see some sort of proof that I'm a business and not a customer -- because selling items to customers then claiming they're businesses to avoid VAT is tax evasion. Saint Isaias Boner posted:i got around that with my kickstarter by being broke but all that meant was that i was paying VAT on stuff the suppliers were sending me and passing that cost on to backers. Businesses here can't charge VAT (and basically don't count as businesses) until turnover's about 80k. This is also a viable option for UK companies. We don't have to register for VAT until we're making enough bank to hire an accountant to make it go away. potatocubed fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 19:10
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Here in Denmark, everybody in a business to business chain pays VAT, but then everybody gets to subtract what they paid from what was paid to them. Then everybody pays the difference to the government. And we have to start doing it if our business' turnover is about $8000.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:33
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Aug 17, 2016 22:00
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For the money, I'd want this to be actual video footage of what happens when you open the box.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:20
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I hope someone shops the hand figure to give you the finger before the campaign is over.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:23
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I was expecting dickbutt to pop out at the end.
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Aug 18, 2016 00:53
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FRINGE posted:Last update was for 2017. Im not worried that they arent going to put it out though, and waiting doesnt bother me. I know that many people get VERY ANGRY when they have to wait for things, which I guess helps fuel beta access (that they then complain about of course). I can respect that. Dunno if the game could ever live up to the promise of being the true and rightful heir of Planescape: Torment but another fun new infinity engine game is always welcome
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Aug 18, 2016 04:16
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