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WickedHate posted:four breasted nymphomaniac hermaphrodite Troi The ship would never go to warp due to excessive mass.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:15
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Everyone else has starfighters. Can we not have one setting where starfighters aren't king? DS9's fighters were really more like PT boats than space planes. It doesn't seem like a problem to me.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Everyone else has starfighters. Can we not have one setting where starfighters aren't king? Considering how often they were shown getting blown up, I think that setting is Star Trek.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:57
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Everyone else has starfighters. Can we not have one setting where starfighters aren't king? Everyone else has starfighters, because they are super cool. And we do have one setting where starfighters aren't king. It's called Star Trek.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:41
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I (and I suspect many of you) just want to see another battle done like the one on WoK. The fight in STB where the Enterprise RIP gets her butt kicked was cool, yes, but I'd really like to see a tense battle between two big capital ships in, like, an asteroid field or spatial distortion or ion storm or space station wreckage or anything else that would require them to get close and not be able to maneuver well or see each other clearly (but not a nebula because WoK already did a nebula). Modern VFX could be used not to create frenetic, difficult-to-follow action but instead to create tense, suspenseful action that really shows you these ships are half a mile long and packing weapons powerful to blow up planets.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:03
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Big lumbering ships that have no evasive capacity and rely on passive defenses and no active countermeasures and still can't accurately hit each other with phasers? Where do I sign up for the lightweight ship that's pretty much an engine dragging around 12 photon torpedo launcher and a switch that says ripple fire?
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Aug 18, 2016 22:07
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It's not quite Trek but the Star Fleet universe has limited-armament fighter-shuttles that are effective mainly because they are maneuverable and can pin down an enemy starship. Fighters are 100x easier to replace than starships so commanders will fight out battles with them and not risk big ships of the line unless there's a reason to. Later the races develop gunboats (fast patrol ships) as an "attrition unit" (except the Federation who go in a different direction and develop a really, really big fighter*). Gunboats are a neat concept that, like most of the Star Fleet poo poo, is completely wasted because everyone gets more ship for less with drawbacks that never come up. *Which is called the F-111 because Space Tom Clancy.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:08
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If they were going to do some kind of fighter jet thing, rip off the whisker probes from seaQuest and have them able to carry photon torpedoes. Given the way their technology seems to work I doubt you could do a lot with pewpew guns off of a smaller engine, but I could see some kind of remote probe toting around Spa'ce'hellfires. Then you can also have drone arguments. (Why don't they just use all drones? Because subspace bandwidth sucks balls and shaft.)
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Aug 18, 2016 22:13
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Yeah, I get that smaller craft aren't "traditional" or whatever, but that's only because budget limitations in TOS and TNG only allowed for a handful of ship models. Period. If they'd had the modeling and effects budget for diverse fleets or proper fleet actions, they probably would have gone for it. DS9 broke with tradition because they were the first series that actually had the capacity to do so, and even then the budgetary concerns were very much a factor. They made the fighters because the Maquis needed to be flying crappy little ships for story reasons (and because they could just redress the shuttlecraft set for the interiors). Then, a couple seasons later, when they started doing big fleet battles, they still had the model lying around so they reused it. It's really that simple. Don't be like one of those Memory Alpha nerds who try to find in-universe explanations for every budgetary or narrative expedient. It's a bad look. Ditto, stuff like "it's supposed to be like the Age of Sail," because not only was that never a hard and fast rule (remember that the first real ship-to-ship combat in the original series was basically a submarine movie), but it falls even flatter when you realize that real Age of Sail fleets were typically more diverse in size and role than literally anything ever shown on Star Trek.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:26
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DO you think Starfleet has rules of engagement for dealing with god-like beings? Like, step 1, make sure it's not just a sufficiently advanced technology.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:26
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Fister Roboto posted:DO you think Starfleet has rules of engagement for dealing with god-like beings? Like, step 1, make sure it's not just a sufficiently advanced technology. It would have been funny if the Maquis had been annihilated because they decided they were going to try to boss around some Kevin Uxbridge motherfucker in the Badlands, though.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:32
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Nessus posted:By TNG I'm sure they do. But Picard specifically said they had no idea how to deal with Kevin Uxbridge! 
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Aug 18, 2016 22:34
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WickedHate posted:But Picard specifically said they had no idea how to deal with Kevin Uxbridge!
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Aug 18, 2016 22:38
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Gammatron 64 posted:Everyone else has starfighters, because they are super cool. And we do have one setting where starfighters aren't king. It's called Star Trek. I know, but there are people who want starfighters to be king in Star Trek too, and I have to tell them they're wrong. I have to get to the bridge
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Aug 18, 2016 22:48
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I'd just be happy if their computer targeted phasers could reliably hit the enemy at ranges where you couldn't possibly miss shooting a hand phaser out a window.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:51
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WickedHate posted:But Picard specifically said they had no idea how to deal with Kevin Uxbridge! I think the bigger issue there is: Kevin Uxbridge annihilated an entire interstellar civilization just by getting really mad and wanting them all dead. What could the Federation possibly do to him that would be effective and also not risk their own instant destruction?
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Aug 18, 2016 22:52
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I'm sick to death of starfighters and associated characters, I had enough of that poo poo after BSG
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Aug 18, 2016 22:52
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Baronjutter posted:I'd just be happy if their computer targeted phasers could reliably hit the enemy at ranges where you couldn't possibly miss shooting a hand phaser out a window. Maybe there should just be port holes on the side for the men to shoot their phasers out.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:53
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Praxis was mentioned in the Voyager flashback-to-ST6 episode. Even before VI showed there was a major disaster Qo'noS looked pretty lovely all the time with lightning storms and fog everywhere. Picard even had to wear a rebreather when he went to the lovely part of town in Sins of the Father.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:55
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Evek posted:Even before VI showed there was a major disaster Qo'noS looked pretty lovely all the time with lightning storms and fog everywhere. Picard even had to wear a rebreather when he went to the lovely part of town in Sins of the Father. Woah what I don't remember the rebreather at all.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:00
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Nessus posted:Wasn't that more that they had no mechanisms to try a godlike dude who happened to seem to be a Federation human? As opposed to their protocols for Lucien or Trelaine or something. Yeah, it seems like the Federation playbook for dealing with godlike beings involves being super rational and trying not to piss them off long enough to talk them down. Obviously Picard had some idea how to deal with godlike beings because he'd already gotten to know Q by then, but actually holding one accountable for his actions in any meaningful way is basically impossible, hence him not knowing how to do it. Also we know Sisko and Janeway were definitely briefed on Q and Bashir knew about Kirk's mirror universe transporter accident so I can only assume that Star Fleet officer training spends months going over every loving nutso edge case that has ever happened to a Star Fleet officer. If they act surprised when history inexplicably repeats itself, it's only because, like with any other history class, most of them just dozed through the lectures, skimmed the textbook, and forgot almost all of it twenty minutes after they finished the final. Tighclops posted:I'm sick to death of starfighters and associated characters, I had enough of that poo poo after BSG I agree 100%. gently caress starfighters and the tired WW2 cliches they rode in on, but I still think the slope would have to be pretty drat slippery for the presence of small craft in like two sequences to be all it takes for Star Trek to turn into Rogue Squadron: the series.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:04
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Baronjutter posted:Woah what I don't remember the rebreather at all. Just watched the scene and no rebreather. My bad. It's still a lovely looking planet at the best of times. Enterprise showed that it was more of a snowy, cold planet before Praxis blowing up in their faces wrecked it all. Evek fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 23:15
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armoredgorilla posted:Holy smokes, look at this thing I stumbled upon. I just bought the first book in the series. Earth didn't join the UFP and just kind of kicks around on its own, after Paxton (follower of Green in Enterprise) was successful in his attack on Starfleet Command. Pike captains the Enterprise with first officer Kirk. I'm not very far into it, but there's a cute/dumb moment where the Enterprise meets a Coalition ship, and it is clearly crewed by all the weird enterprise crew members from the Animated series. The three armed guy, the cat lady, the giant bird, that sort of thing. The reason I generally dislike Star Trek novels is that they all read like childish fanfiction where you just shoehorn as many references to the canon into one book as possible. The best ones I've found either simply expand on a premise from the show, like the novel set immediately after 'In The Pale Moonlight', or are the ones that are far removed from the canon, but just set in the familiar universe. I hate reading about Kirk fighting the borg alongside janeways grandmother, while mirror universe kira shows up and a horta burns Q while Darth Vader watches.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:27
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Tears In A Vial posted:
I thought you were being serious there until I got to the last part. Anyway yeah Trek books can be awful I won't bring up the one I really hate again. I really liked the book that expands on the ending of The Cardassians, thought the ending felt a little trite. One book you should all avoid though is "the art of the impossible" its about that Betraka Nebula incident Garak mentions in Way of the Warrior after he gets ganged up on by six Klingons. I got it for a penny (with free postage) and I feel cheated. Forget cannon being violated its just really incompetent. The book takes the Klingons side in the squabble but frames the conflict in a way were the Cardies aren't actually doing anything wrong. You might think from that last sentence the novel is trying to be grey or nuanced but trust me that isn't the case. The Cardassians find an uninhabited world that can be used to help with their crippling food shortages, the Klingons attack them and lay claim to the planet as well because there is a crashed Klingon ship. The crew are dead, but because Klingon corpses touched the surface centuries ago the Empire claims it. There's a stand off and both agree to a peaceful arbitration and agree to abide by it, and yet every none cardassian character acts like the scalies are a bunch of mean jerks, for not letting the Klingons take a colony from them out of spite. I was genuinely baffled reading it,
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Aug 19, 2016 00:39
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Cardassians are consistently portrayed as victims of systematic racism, even throughout DS9. Dukat was right.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:00
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Gul Dukat did nothing wrong.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:01
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Aug 19, 2016 01:05
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As with the show proper, any of the Mirror Universe books are to be considered extremely goofy and should be read as such. Dominatrix B'Elanna, anyone? Though will say I did like the one where Picard works as an indentured archaeologist for Gul Madred Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 01:21
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The majority of the Peter David books are decent to good.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:53
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GreenNight posted:The majority of the Peter David books are decent to good. The first 4 books of New Frontier are such an absurd mix of Deep Space Nine and TOS styles that I have to appreciate them. Captain M'k'n'zy of Calhoun has purple eyes, a scar on his face, and is a swordsman. The security officer is a rock man. The navigator frequently falls asleep at the wheel and might be part Q or Trelane or something? A major planet turns out to be a literal egg for The Great Bird of the Galaxy and hatches. Just mindbogglingly silly poo poo.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:02
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The only Star Trek books I ever read was the one where Worf is at the academy and some of the James Blish TOS adaptations. I think I was like 10. I read the short story version of Balance of Terror before I ever got to see the episode.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:19
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The Enterprise doesn't carry starfighters because it's not a warship, it's an exploration vessel \ diplomatic ship. Fighters and bombers aren't really designed for peaceful missions. Ships like the Akira class do actually carry fighters because it's actually meant to kill things. The Defiant doesn't, but the Defiant is also really small and is practically a giant starfighter itself.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:22
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Except the Akira doesn't carry fighters because there aren't any except that one shot in the dominion war when they weren't launching from an Akira. The Akira has a big shuttlebay.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:48
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The original run of TOS novels are good pulpy stories and some of the early TNG novels (written while the show was still on the air) are decent. I find modern Trek novels to be extraordinarily boring though. The only ones I've bothered finishing are the post-finale Enterprise books, but even those got to be too bland after a while. Do they still do Strange New Worlds, the compilations of glorified fan-fic? Some of the shorts in those were decent, just because people would come up with truly bizarre situations and plots.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:30
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The DS9 "Season 8" books are good* clear up until Unity iirc, fun little series. My favorite Trek book is Deep Space Nine: Valhalla and I super recommend anyone check it out. *good compared to other Trek novels
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Aug 19, 2016 03:32
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the bigger issue there is: Kevin Uxbridge annihilated an entire interstellar civilization just by getting really mad and wanting them all dead. What could the Federation possibly do to him that would be effective and also not risk their own instant destruction? Well, yeah, same goes for any other godlike being. If there's any policies I'd imagine it'd be to the tune of "please don't anger them and play along with their mind games because they could exterminate literally any second". The Star Trek verse must be terrifying for mortals. There's like a million of these things running around.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:43
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Gammatron 64 posted:Everyone else has starfighters, because they are super cool. And we do have one setting where starfighters aren't king. It's called Star Trek. This seems to generally be because the weapon arrays on starships are so overwhelming that maneuverability is meaningless. Dennis Okuda wrote in a Star Trek Encyclopedia that the Enterprise-D can fire on 30 different targets simultaneously.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:57
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:This seems to generally be because the weapon arrays on starships are so overwhelming that maneuverability is meaningless. Dennis Okuda wrote in a Star Trek Encyclopedia that the Enterprise-D can fire on 30 different targets simultaneously. But we never saw that on screen, or even close to 30. We saw "Full spreads" of like 4 torpedoes, and pew pew ring-around-the phaser hitting a few things in rapid succession a couple times. We did see ships be practically untargetable because they were too small and maneuverable more than once, including a runabout surviving for a decent amount of time against a jem'hadar fighter even though it is a piece of crap utility craft and not a dedicated warship.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:10
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Did they mention what kind of spacecraft Nicholas Locarno and his team were flying when they did that dangerous maneuver that killed the guy? Because I always assumed they were single-seater craft that were analogous to fighters.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:10
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I always assumed they were the minivan-esque shuttles because the image is pretty hilarious.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:14
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