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Oh also American Football
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Aug 22, 2016 02:11
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Josef bugman posted:No they are not. Great things are usually asked of those least able to do it, and are then laughed at or called scum because they failed. I don't mean to sound Socratic, if that bit isn't about me I do apologise ,I am just arguing a little to try and understand a bit more. Like any oath it's subjective though. A fervent revolutionary Marxist-Leninist could take the oath and then consider the enemies of the revolution to be the enemies of the Constitution, if he or she wanted to. Domestic enemies aren't defined by the state, nor is any particular interpretation of the Constitution. The domestic enemies thing is almost more of a reminder of "hey, btw some of your fellow citizens are pretty poo poo at this constitutional republic thing, you should be willing to tell them so and work against them so the state doesn't go off course (into, say, the small hands of an orange fascist for example)." The culture surrounding American citizenship and patriotism is a little more nuanced than the Republicans have made it seem in recent decades. Which, to bring things back around, is one reason why the DNC co-opting patriotism is a net good.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:12
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Oh also American Football Not disagreeing with you but there's probably a huge overlap between people who think america is problematic and who think football is problematic
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Aug 22, 2016 02:12
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Donkwich posted:Does America whitewash its history more than other countries, on average? We got to read some of A People's History of the United States in high school, but I know that schools in other parts of the US teach about how great slavery was for the slaves, and I'm wondering about how that compares with the rest of the world. Glorious Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was built on the backs of millions of expendable Ukrainians and Belarussians. If they weren't grateful for the honor then they deserved what they and the grateful ones alike got.  That particular reason for the PLC being mildly awful wasn't taught a lot to my limited sample of Polish nerdfriends, at least.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:13
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America gave the world the Thriller music video
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Aug 22, 2016 02:13
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:Not disagreeing with you but there's probably a huge overlap between people who think america is problematic and who think football is problematic Yeah American Football is extremely problematic The problem is the season is only 5 months 
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Aug 22, 2016 02:13
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Donkwich posted:Does America whitewash its history more than other countries, on average? We got to read some of A People's History of the United States in high school, but I know that schools in other parts of the US teach about how great slavery was for the slaves, and I'm wondering about how that compares with the rest of the world. That's its own kettle of fish and is tied in with, among other things, the big GOP push to have an R next to every option on a ballot everywhere from assistant dogcatcher on up. The Texas School Board's a pretty good example, where we have people running/being elected for it that believe in home-schooling first as a way to keep the ungodly gays from indoctrinating their children. We're a large enough market that publishers go out of their way to put stuff out that we'd buy. That might change now that California's looking better, but we'll see. I didn't read A People's History of the United States in high school, and in fact I can recall one of my biology teachers being a gym coach and skipping over the chapter on evolution. But, you know, here I am now and I'm not a blithering idiot (I may be an idiot though). Josef bugman posted:Sorry I phrased that poorly. What does the USA do to make you proud of it. What is a good thing that the USA does. Berlin Air Drop. The work being done against the guinea worm. Eradication of yellow fever. You keep having to refine your caveats shallower and shallower man. Maybe you're just looking for a fight?
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Aug 22, 2016 02:15
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WampaLord posted:Off the top of my head? That doesn't seem to be true. I looked into the amount of work that goes into coming to America, you need a sponser for it and that almost always means you have work. You can't just hop on a boat and get off at Staten Island any more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States)#Immigration_eligibility_and_quotas. The universities, again from what I have read, appear to be more internationlist in their research, rather than single people based any more.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:15
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Trabisnikof posted:Uh someone listed good things Clinton did so clearly they must believe he was perfect! Hell, his reading comprehension was so poor he couldn't even work out that what really caught my interest was successfully raising taxes on the rich against GOP resistance.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:16
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When people say they love their country they're not necessarily talking about the government, jesus christ
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Aug 22, 2016 02:17
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Trevor Hale posted:Apparently was reported as early as 2009. http://www.businessinsider.com/paypals-peter-thiel-funded-acorn-sting-2009-9 Well, that's unfortunate. If this string of news items continues as-is, he'll eventually rival the Koch brothers in being the most of meddlesome billionaire in the United States. Is he still involved with PayPal as a company?
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Aug 22, 2016 02:17
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citybeatnik posted:There's nothing wrong with being a Socratic gadfly; take it as a compliment, or at least not something that needs to be apologized for as long as it's being done in good faith. I'm not doing it in bad faith I think. Hookworm probably. I dunno, balancing the ledger always seems quite hard when you look at what your country has done to others in my case. Maybe it'll work out in yours but... well who knows.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:18
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Josef bugman posted:The universities, again from what I have read, appear to be more internationlist in their research, rather than single people based any more. What the gently caress does this mean? They're American universities.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:18
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Mechafunkzilla posted:When people say they love their country they're not necessarily talking about the government, jesus christ I know, but if you love a country I'd always assumed it meant "my conception of the nation state". WampaLord posted:What the gently caress does this mean? They're American universities. But the research done in them is international, not specifically American. The buildings and facilities and all the rest are surely useful, but are they USA only?
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Aug 22, 2016 02:20
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Josef bugman posted:I know, but if you love a country I'd always assumed it meant "my conception of the nation state". *good faith flees the room, screaming*
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Aug 22, 2016 02:22
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Mechafunkzilla posted:When people say they love their country they're not necessarily talking about the government, jesus christ There's that too. Josef bugman posted:That doesn't seem to be true. I looked into the amount of work that goes into coming to America, you need a sponser for it and that almost always means you have work. You can't just hop on a boat and get off at Staten Island any more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States)#Immigration_eligibility_and_quotas. You can. I work in immigration. There's way's you can do it. I don't feel comfortable commenting on the how because 1) IANAL and 2) my knowledge of how comes from my experience with the LESC/FOUO aspects of it. And my counter to the "internationalist" remark is that we've set up a culture that is okay with that. That's something we helped with. You're welcome. Mel Mudkiper posted:Most nobel prize winners of any country This as well. Plus, you know, helping during the 1960s/70s engineering crops to feed the world specifically to tell Malthus to gently caress off.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:22
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Josef bugman posted:Sorry I phrased that poorly. What does the USA do to make you proud of it. What is a good thing that the USA does. Hell I could even say NATO commitments, for all the organizations potential problems.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:23
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theflyingorc posted:*good faith flees the room, screaming* Oh. Sorry, I thought that with international teams it might not count as a US thing. I am not neccesarily picking fights, I just want to understand what makes people happy about being in the USA. These are all good answers.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:23
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Josef bugman posted:I know, but if you love a country I'd always assumed it meant "my conception of the nation state". You can also love its cuisine, its architecture, its unique cultural attractions and customs, and its natural beauty, just to name a few things
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Aug 22, 2016 02:24
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WampaLord posted:What the gently caress does this mean? They're American universities. I think he means that Universities at the Graduate/Postdoc level have a lot of international students. Not really sure what he's talking about re:immigration though.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:24
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Josef bugman posted:I'm not doing it in bad faith I think. "We've done bad poo poo" and "we've done great poo poo" are not mutually exclusive. The whole course of human evolution and achievement has involved dealing with the former while trying to do more of the latter. But then I'm the guy that got drunk in Berlin and got in a fun debate with a bunch of fellow drunkards from Belgium, Ireland, Australia and the like about the evils we've done and the good we've accomplished. Which, again, includes disease research on top of technological advancements.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:25
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Josef bugman posted:Oh. Sorry, I thought that with international teams it might not count as a US thing. That spirit of international cooperation is American, so you're welcome. We welcome the best and brightest from around the world to study here and work here to make our country better. I think it's clear at this point you are picking a fight. Many people have listed many reasons they love America and you've found a way to dismiss basically all of them.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:25
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Redgrendel2001 posted:I think he means that Universities at the Graduate/Postdoc level have a lot of international students. I meant (as regards immigration) that there seems to be requirements to move their even if you are unskilled, which was in contention with what WampaLord mentioned. I think I may be wrong on that point though/
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Aug 22, 2016 02:26
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Josef bugman posted:Oh. Sorry, I thought that with international teams it might not count as a US thing. I mean the research teams have a lot of folks from outside the US in them, but that's even better - we're getting the benefits of other nations' researchers wanting to be here. The funding is largely from US sources and is often targeted at US interests, so yeah, it's a US thing. Also I'd appreciate replies to my posts, I did actually put thought into this stuff!
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Aug 22, 2016 02:27
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Arguably the U.S.'s strongest export is education in that we teach international students who then go home and improve their own countries. Teach a man to fish kind of thing.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:27
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Josef bugman posted:Oh. Sorry, I thought that with international teams it might not count as a US thing. This may not make sense to you, but overwhelming guilt is not the predominate emotion most of us experience. edit: Well, at least not about our country/nationalism.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:28
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:You can also love its cuisine, its architecture, its unique cultural attractions and customs, and its natural beauty, just to name a few things To be fair, our national cuisine is pretty poo poo and if we're not constantly importing people from countries that are not afraid of spices it'd be dire. -Garlic- used to be considered foreign and spicy up until like the 1980s. loving GARLIC. It's still seen as exotic in parts of the midwest.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:28
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citybeatnik posted:To be fair, our national cuisine is pretty poo poo and if we're not constantly importing people from countries that are not afraid of spices it'd be dire. Our country is British in origin, what do you expect
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Aug 22, 2016 02:29
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We invented the pizza bagel
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Aug 22, 2016 02:29
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WampaLord posted:That spirit of international cooperation is American, so you're welcome. We welcome the best and brightest from around the world to study here and work here to make our country better. What? Are you claiming that international co-operation is American? I would... kind of disagree as "treaties" have been a thing for quite a while and imperial control of various different cultures and the brightest people working together is a common feature in the classical near east. citybeatnik posted:"We've done bad poo poo" and "we've done great poo poo" are not mutually exclusive. The whole course of human evolution and achievement has involved dealing with the former while trying to do more of the latter. True, but is the good more than the bad? I don't think so in my countries case.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:29
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citybeatnik posted:To be fair, our national cuisine is pretty poo poo and if we're not constantly importing people from countries that are not afraid of spices it'd be dire. We've invented/stolen the best of a lot of good poo poo in the last couple decades though if you live in a real city
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Aug 22, 2016 02:29
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WampaLord posted:That spirit of international cooperation is American, so you're welcome. We welcome the best and brightest from around the world to study here and work here to make our country better. I think it's more that English people trend towards super-pessimism rather than dude trying to pick a fight. citybeatnik posted:To be fair, our national cuisine is pretty poo poo and if we're not constantly importing people from countries that are not afraid of spices it'd be dire. Dude all sorts of countries had super bland cuisine if you weren't rich until quite recently. Really goes doubly so for much of Europe, considering all the havoc that the World Wars and rebuilding periods after each caused.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:31
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Josef bugman posted:What? Are you claiming that international co-operation is American? I would... kind of disagree as "treaties" have been a thing for quite a while and imperial control of various different cultures and the brightest people working together is a common feature in the classical near east. Operation Paperclip set the stage for a new kind of internationalism in universities for one.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:31
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:We've invented/stolen the best of a lot of good poo poo in the last couple decades though if you live in a real city Anyone who complains about cultural appropriation of food is wrong Culturally appropriate all the food, it makes everything better
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Aug 22, 2016 02:31
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citybeatnik posted:"We've done bad poo poo" and "we've done great poo poo" are not mutually exclusive. The whole course of human evolution and achievement has involved dealing with the former while trying to do more of the latter. Greatest good I have accomplished: saving Florida (my contribution to a) distinct assload of money on road maintenance. Greatest evil I have done: Rick Voldemort Scott got to take credit. 
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Aug 22, 2016 02:31
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Bugman why are you avoiding American Football
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Aug 22, 2016 02:33
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Any country that has a half dozen different types of barbecue can't really have "bland" cuisine.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:33
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disjoe posted:Our country is British in origin, what do you expect Bullshit, we had the Spanish and the French here as well! It shouldn't be this loving bad! I blame all those drat Germans, all immigrating in here and not assimilating... (I joke; Texas had a huge German immigrant population of all loving things.) Dr.Zeppelin posted:We've invented/stolen the best of a lot of good poo poo in the last couple decades though if you live in a real city Eh, it's not so bad here in Austin yeah. But visiting the kinfolk out in west Texas? Holy gently caress. Josef bugman posted:True, but is the good more than the bad? I don't think so in my countries case. Sounds like you need a better country. Come over to ours.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:34
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Trabisnikof posted:Operation Paperclip set the stage for a new kind of internationalism in universities for one. On the other hand, Americans invented clippy.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:34
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computer parts posted:Any country that has a half dozen different types of barbecue can't really have "bland" cuisine. We only have two, St. Louis Style and wrong *cackles at the lit match lands upon the tinder*
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Aug 22, 2016 02:34
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