USPOL August: Quoth The Donald, "Arzy more."

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL August: Quoth The Donald, "Arzy more."

D O R K Y: Sep 1, 2001

theflyingorc posted:

I'm trying to imagine a policy change that could more isolate his base, and I'm not coming up with it

Like, he's not going to pull moderates back in, that ship has sailed. But he's about to tell his base "we're staying the course that Obama set", when they support him because he's supposed to flip the tables. He could get boos at his own rallies for that

What's the best way to get an idea of the current temperament of his "base?" The last glimpse I had of that was crowds shouting "lock her up" at the RNC. Is there's any good indicators that his base is cooling on support for him?

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:54

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# ? May 26, 2024 18:45

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Though Clitnon's campaign won't attack him as flip-flopping (Re: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-flip-flopper_us_57bc4127e4b0b51733a5a32f?qx1s28kg6ywxywrk9)

They will instead pin him as not having any grounding.

It's a good point. Romney was treated somewhat unfairly for this particular point IMO (I think his actual positions were what he said in the GE, and the other stuff was mostly just him trying to win the primary), but he was vulnerable on it because he had to stick to his new positions while his "old positions" from the primary were still available to air.

As the article says, Trump can switch back to his original positions at any time, he isn't stuck like Romney, and they lose the rhetorical point.

...Hillary's staff is really really good at election strategy, guys

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:55

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

A Trump pivot on immigration is actually pretty clever because the base will just assume he's saying it to get elected and will kick out all the brown people once he's in office.

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/768072808962281472

This is gonna be such a weird speech.

There was that AP story about Trump staffers posting all sorts of racist things on social media (big surprise!) and I would guess this is an attempt at making that stick.

If nothing else, it's giving Trump another opportunity to make a fool of himself by launching into a two-hour tweetstorm. It might also be a conscious attempt to provoke Bannon et al.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:56

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

Dork457 posted:

What's the best way to get an idea of the current temperament of his "base?" The last glimpse I had of that was crowds shouting "lock her up" at the RNC. Is there's any good indicators that his base is cooling on support for him?

Oh, his base is absolutely on fire right now, this is literally the first thing I've seen that I would expect to cool off their wild devotion

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:56

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

nutranurse posted:

I honestly cannot believe there are only 2 months left in the general election.Trump is campaigning like it's way earlier.

The secret is he doesn't have a campaign plan.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:56

Crow Jane: Oct 18, 2012; nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

The secret is he doesn't have a campaign plan.

Well, he likes scamming his supporters out of their money

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:57

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

I am also continually amazed at how little Clinton is having to do to win this election

They spun up the largest, savviest political machine of all time...and they're mostly sitting back and letting their opponent wreck himself.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:57

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

Goddammit I knew he was in the tank for Hillary the whole time!

E:^ yeah I almost feel bad for all the interns who worked 60+ hour weeks getting her campaign as ready as possible only to find that work completely wasted.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:58

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Antti posted:

A Trump pivot on immigration is actually pretty clever because the base will just assume he's saying it to get elected and will kick out all the brown people once he's in office.

There was that AP story about Trump staffers posting all sorts of racist things on social media (big surprise!) and I would guess this is an attempt at making that stick.

If nothing else, it's giving Trump another opportunity to make a fool of himself by launching into a two-hour tweetstorm. It might also be a conscious attempt to provoke Bannon et al.

Forcing the Trump campaign to talk about this poo poo is a good idea, since they're bound to gently caress it up.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:58

Mr Interweb: Aug 25, 2004

axe_vendetta posted:

I'm very pessimistic about the election. Everyone should read Jared Sextons latest tweets about going to a recent rally. Trump has been forced to read from the teleprompter and is not going to keep making the crazy gaffes that gave Clinton her early advantage. He's not pivoting but he is getting smarter about rhetoric. Also, the behaviour of his supporters is eye opening.

Jesus....that's terrifying.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:58

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

nutranurse posted:

I honestly cannot believe there are only 2 months left in the general election.Trump is campaigning like it's way earlier.

He's going to be ready for the election come April. It's gonna be great.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:58

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

theflyingorc posted:

I am also continually amazed at how little Clinton is having to do to win this election

They spun up the largest, savviest political machine of all time...and they're mostly sitting back and letting their opponent wreck himself.

Just because they've ceded the national news cycle to Trump doesn't mean they're doing nothing.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/768083669550366720

Everyone is being mean to me!

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:59

JUST MAKING CHILI: Feb 14, 2008

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/768076383692009473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Rubio voters remain salty.
https://twitter.com/GPollowitz/status/768078541934227456

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx9n6P0cx1Y

# ? Aug 23, 2016 14:59

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

zoux posted:

Just because they've ceded the national news cycle to Trump doesn't mean they're doing nothing.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/768083669550366720

Everyone is being mean to me!

I think that will prove to be one of the wisest decisions the campaign made. Simply going "you know, we're not going to out Trump Trump, and we don't think it's a good thing for him anyway, so let's just eat up all the local news and let Trump be a spectacle. When we do show up on the national news, we'll be somber, sober and adult."

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:02

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

I usually think of flip-flopping as a pejorative term for what is a completely normal thing for a politician to do: periodically reevaluate the situation and change their position. In this case, both the old position and the new position are based on the knowledge available at that time.

Trump isn't doing anything like that. He didn't know poo poo about deporting people and he doesn't know poo poo about not deporting people either.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:03

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

The Shortest Path posted:

Goddammit I knew he was in the tank for Hillary the whole time!

E:^ yeah I almost feel bad for all the interns who worked 60+ hour weeks getting her campaign as ready as possible only to find that work completely wasted.

It's not wasted. The larger the margin of victory, to better the democratic party will do overall. They will not let their foot off his throat until the results are in.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:04

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

zoux posted:

Just because they've ceded the national news cycle to Trump doesn't mean they're doing nothing.

I'm overstating, but the last numbers I saw showed them using their cash rather frugally, compared to what they've raised.

They are also able to spend a lot of time keeping their eye on other races, assisting Democrats in the senate and house.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:05

BigRed0427: Mar 23, 2007; There's no one I'd rather be than me.

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/768072808962281472

This is gonna be such a weird speech.

To be fair, it's almost impossible to talk about the alt-right now not have it get weird. There are so many rabbit holes to dig into there is no telling what's gonna come up.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:06

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

Samurai Sanders posted:

I usually think of flip-flopping as a pejorative term for what is a completely normal thing for a politician to do: periodically reevaluate the situation and change their position. In this case, both the old position and the new position are based on the knowledge available at that time.

It is one of the worst possible criticisms of a politician. IN THEORY, the politician is supposed to represent the will of their electorate. So if what their electorate wants changes, their opinion should change! There's no honor in sticking to your guns regardless of new developments or new information!

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:07

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Kerry got nailed to the wall over flip flopping so it's pretty hilarious to see 12 years later no one cares about the least consistent political figure in American history.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:11

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I think that will prove to be one of the wisest decisions the campaign made. Simply going "you know, we're not going to out Trump Trump, and we don't think it's a good thing for him anyway, so let's just eat up all the local news and let Trump be a spectacle. When we do show up on the national news, we'll be somber, sober and adult."

She also has more name recognition than she knows what to do with. If fatigue is going to be a thing in this election, once Clinton's more in the news as the election approaches people might be like "Oh, yes, she's nice and not Trump, I'm sick of Trump."

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:11

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

I can't even remember what Kerry flip-flopped about. Maybe he was wearing flip-flops while windsurfing behind the swift boat?

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:12

SavageBastard: Nov 16, 2007; Professional Lurker

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

I think it's cool that you're curious about this stuff and if whatever that 1300-post mess was generated interest in this topic it was worth it, imo. It's a little uncomfortable to criticize black culture in mixed company - this isn't the most favorable environment for discussing perspectives different than the default white male goon, as you might have noticed, and I at least (black woman from the North) was raised not to air "dirty laundry" in front of white people. So posting any of this requires a degree of trust I hope you'll validate.

Just to list some things off, let me know if you want more details on anything:

Obviously the whole cops-murdering-us thing, but black women also have a separate problem with the cops assuming we're prostitutes. I've had some enlightening conversations with trans women who have similar experiences regardless of race.

Model minority pressure. Chris Rock said some things on Twitter a while back about how when he goes to the studios he sees some young black women, but very few black men. There's an achievement gap between black men and women that's got a variety of factors - the catastrophically high incarceration rate for black men, toxic masculinity mixing with internalized racism to create a mistrust of/devaluing of higher education, and the way sexism intertwines with racism means black women aren't seen as quite as threatening to have in an office environment. The image of black men as violent thugs is ingrained so deep racist people assume even the most professional, placid black man is secretly dangerous, while black women at least have a chance of dispelling their stereotype of being loud and slutty as long as they bend over backwards to be the opposite. If you can smile and stay as silent as possible you can snag yourself prime placement in that corporate diversity brochure no problem.

Skin, hair - people have talked about colorism really well already, but I'm happy to join in if you have questions. Hair is an incredibly loaded topic for black people, especially black women, because not only are we expected to make our hair look as much like a white person's as possible if we want to be "professional," which is expensive, damaging, and sometimes physically painful, we also get shamed from inside the community (and woke white assholes) for not being "natural" enough, but if you go "natural" white people interpret that as making a political statement. Now that "Black Twitter" has become a thing there's also the fun of white boys repeating misogynist jokes they saw black men make about black women's beauty trends, "we goin' swimming on the first date" poo poo, etc.

And bodies... look up Saartjie Baartman sometime and be depressed. Anything a black woman's body does that a white woman's doesn't is a hideous deformity... until it's trendy. Watching big asses go from a thing white boys bullied black girls for to a thing white boys assume black girls put on just to get their attention is a weird, weird thing.
Black women are seen as hypersexual, but also too masculine. If you're dark-skinned or short-haired or broad-nosed you'll get to hear how you're just objectively ugly, no accounting for taste, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to be attracted to you. But within black culture you're also not supposed to have body issues. Things like eating disorders (most mental illness, tbh) are "white nonsense."

There's also just the sea of subcultures and generational conflicts - immigrant vs. slave-descended, southern vs. northern, urban vs. rural, secular vs. baptist vs. muslim, HBCU or not, activist or not, interracial dating or not, god help you if you're queer or trans. Are you black enough? Are you the wrong kind of black? Is your blackness fake? Is your blackness holding you back? If you're the only black person in the room are you a pioneer or a token?

Keeping this post alive and really appreciate the perspective. In the middle of Baratunde Thurston's book right now and your last paragraph in particular has been on my mind a lot lately. Please share more and often.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:13

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Mozi posted:

I can't even remember what Kerry flip-flopped about. Maybe he was wearing flip-flops while windsurfing behind the swift boat?

for the war, then against it

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:15

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

BigRed0427 posted:

To be fair, it's almost impossible to talk about the alt-right now not have it get weird. There are so many rabbit holes to dig into there is no telling what's gonna come up.

But there are so many things which don't require any digging. He did a loving AMA on the The_Donald subreddit, that alone has to give years worth of prime material.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:15

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

for the war, then against it

It was more blaise than even that. He voted for a funding bill for the Iraq war in committee, and then against it when it was up for passage because he didn't like the amendment that stripped out some provisions he was for.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:19

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

They were very careful not to give the_donald much actually. Only ~14 answers and all boring as hell

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:20

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/768090559818797056

I really wish they had the wherewithal to realize that they've been used but often people in such situations only hew closer to their deceiver.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:24

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

theflyingorc posted:

uhhhh

this is literally his one actual policy proposal, what is he doing

My theory is that he thinks his base will vote for him no matter what he says so he won't lose their support if he does a complete 180 to pander to more moderate voters, even on issues that were the original reason people wanted to vote for him in the first place. I.E. "I could murder someone and people would still vote for me" taken to heart.

Antti posted:

A Trump pivot on immigration is actually pretty clever because the base will just assume he's saying it to get elected and will kick out all the brown people once he's in office.

Also this.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:24

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

/r/the_donald is such a shithole that I really hope Hillary's speech turns it into a liability for Trump. If Hillary had posted on and endorsed a community that regularly posts racism and slurs and incites violence, we'd never hear the end of it, but Trump gets a free pass.

Also, kinda sorta related, but Trump recently started buying ads on reddit lol

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:26

VH4Ever: Oct 1, 2005; by sebmojo

axe_vendetta posted:

I'm very pessimistic about the election. Everyone should read Jared Sextons latest tweets about going to a recent rally. Trump has been forced to read from the teleprompter and is not going to keep making the crazy gaffes that gave Clinton her early advantage. He's not pivoting but he is getting smarter about rhetoric. Also, the behaviour of his supporters is eye opening.

I guess I'll be getting a sense of this tonight in Austin. Obviously Austin is not exactly known as a right wing hotbed and local pols are confused why he's coming but let's face it: it's not exactly a long drive for my state's crazier residents to make it in tonight to see him. He IS holding the rally at the rodeo grounds, after all.

I don't want to get slammed for promoting an outside site here but if people are curious to see my live feed from the rally tonight I'll post more information. Truly not sure what I'll find there tonight.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:26

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Pakled posted:

but Trump gets a free pass.

Why do people say this? He's getting slaughtered in the media and in the polls, I don't get how that's a free pass.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:28

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Why the confusion about the continued popularity of the Hillary email scandal angle? It works for both Republicans and disaffected Democrats who were burned by the nebulous DNC stuff.

It doesn't matter if there's any substance to it. It looks crooked as poo poo to anyone who hasn't personally taken the time to look into the issue, and it was actually dumb as hell for her to let this happen.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:29

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Why do people say this? He's getting slaughtered in the media and in the polls, I don't get how that's a free pass.

specifically re: the_donald? I think it's pretty much been glossed over that his single biggest, most enthusiastic online community harbors explicitly white supremacist material

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:30

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

Rotten Red Rod posted:

My theory is that he thinks his base will vote for him no matter what he says so he won't lose their support if he does a complete 180 to pander to more moderate voters, even on issues that were the original reason people wanted to vote for him in the first place. I.E. "I could murder someone and people would still vote for me" taken to heart.

Also this.

Just like the black people speech, it's not meant for minority voters, it's meant for suburban moms and dads so that they won't feel icky when pulling the lever for Trump.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:30

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

VH4Ever posted:

I guess I'll be getting a sense of this tonight in Austin. Obviously Austin is not exactly known as a right wing hotbed

There's a hell of a lot more racist rear end in a top hat white hipsters out there than you think

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:31

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

VH4Ever posted:

I guess I'll be getting a sense of this tonight in Austin. Obviously Austin is not exactly known as a right wing hotbed and local pols are confused why he's coming but let's face it: it's not exactly a long drive for my state's crazier residents to make it in tonight to see him. He IS holding the rally at the rodeo grounds, after all.

I don't want to get slammed for promoting an outside site here but if people are curious to see my live feed from the rally tonight I'll post more information. Truly not sure what I'll find there tonight.

He's not in Austin he's on the border, talking to border people, about border issues.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/768069472464666624

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:32

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

emdash posted:

They were very careful not to give the_donald much actually. Only ~14 answers and all boring as hell

It doesn't matter though.

If you give a speech at the local Klan rally it is still a huge problem even if you just were speaking about your favorite cookie recipe.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:32

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

They're not trying to connect him to 4chan or the_donald, they're trying to highlight Bannon and his white nationalism. The alt-right exists apart from the internet, we just see the internet-facing parts of it.

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:33

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# ? May 26, 2024 18:45

VH4Ever: Oct 1, 2005; by sebmojo

zoux posted:

He's not in Austin he's on the border, talking to border people, about border issues.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/768069472464666624

Wow I missed the day when going to a fundraiser in Austin and going to the Moody theater to tape an interview for Fox news qualified as "going to the border." So by his logic, when I go to San Antonio, I crossed the border?

EDIT: I think you misread that. I think that tweet means the subject of his Fox interview is "THE BORDER." Not that he's physically there. He's not.

Edit2: I love how he can't say "Austin," but rather he's "in Texas." Funny, revealing.

VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Aug 23, 2016

# ? Aug 23, 2016 15:33

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