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No argument there. I thought it was interesting how Stark was so into signing the Sokovia Accords when you know the second he got emotional about something he would just do his own thing anyway. And then we'd just be "Aw shucks, Tony. You ol' rascal", give him a noogie and move on.
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Aug 24, 2016 15:48
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Cythereal posted:It can and that's undoubtedly what Marvel intended, I'm just saying the chemistry is really visible and Tony Stark has an established soft spot for romance. Cap citing romantic feelings for Bucky might very well have gotten Stark off his case in Civil War - I think Stark is the kind of guy who thinks everyone is entitled to do possibly dumb things in the name of love.
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Aug 24, 2016 15:53
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Sir Kodiak posted:Chris Evans plays Cap as locking up a bit around women, to signal that he's a square, which means he's warmer and more open with his male friends, hence the shipping. And, well, he does have some genuine chemistry with RDJ and Sebastian Stan in my opinion. Black Widow even comments on the Cap/Stark thing in Avengers 2. Hell, in the comics Civil War wasn't there a one-panel thing about how in an alternate universe where Stark was a woman, there was no Civil War because Cap and Stark were married? I'm not saying I actually think MCU Steve Rogers is intended to be gay or even bisexual, I don't think Marvel is half as brave as they'd have to be for that (I'll be shocked if we ever see a major superhero in any of these movies, Marvel or Fox or DC, as gay), but I enjoy thinking of MCU Cap is of a closeted gay man from the 1940s. Adds some interesting subtext to a character who otherwise is a bit dry and shallow.
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Aug 24, 2016 15:55
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I think people insisting that there is some homosexual subtext there is my least favorite reading of a film ever. I'd be fine with it if there were, mind you, but "2 adult men who are close friends? Gaaaaaaayyyyyy" is the laziest thing ever, and I've never seen it defended better than that.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:21
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Maybe some people would just appreciate a superhero movie that embraces lgbtq relationships and look for it in subtext to feel less marginalized.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:27
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Slugworth posted:I think people insisting that there is some homosexual subtext there is my least favorite reading of a film ever. I'd be fine with it if there were, mind you, but "2 adult men who are close friends? Gaaaaaaayyyyyy" is the laziest thing ever, and I've never seen it defended better than that. Using any excuse to ship handsome white men together is a time honored Internet tradition. MacheteZombie posted:Maybe some people would just appreciate a superhero movie that embraces lgbtq relationships and look for it in subtext to feel less marginalized. However, this is also true for some fans. I'm just annoyed at the fans who seem more interested in their ship being canon than in a well-written gay/bi Cap.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:37
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MacheteZombie posted:Maybe some people would just appreciate a superhero movie that embraces lgbtq relationships and look for it in subtext to feel less marginalized.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:43
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Equeen posted:However, this is also true for some fans. I'm just annoyed at the fans who seem more interested in their ship being canon than in a well-written gay/bi Cap. At this point, Bucky and Cap's relationship is one of the best parts of the MCU's writing. I think the reason it ends up being discussed so much is because of how well written it is. It stands out more so than many of the main plots. Cap would do anything for Bucky, and it's extremely endearing. E: Slugworth posted:Well now I feel slightly mean spirited. I just don't think that tends be the case, instead it's something people have latched onto because their relationship is one of the best things the MCU has going right now. (I wish the putting Bucky on ice thing was better handled though  )
MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 24, 2016 |
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Aug 24, 2016 16:45
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Cap doing anything to save Bucky is also a bright spot in a universe that's morally troubling in ways it refuses to really confront or even acknowledge.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:49
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Equeen posted:However, this is also true for some fans. I'm just annoyed at the fans who seem more interested in their ship being canon than in a well-written gay/bi Cap. Eh, I think the possible queer subtext surrounding MCU-Cap is especially interesting because here's a wonderful chance to turn the usual effeminate, limp-wristed stereotype of gay men in the media on its head. Cap is a tough, burly, manly man, as is Bucky and to a lesser extent Stark. Still, I do acknowledge that the fact that it's Captain America is why even if Marvel had the guts to make a major character gay - which I don't think they do, nor Fox nor DC - it would never be Cap. I could see them getting away with it for Stark (who wouldn't buy him as bisexual?), Black Widow (in that extremely unfortunate fanservice-for-straight-men way that gay women are so often relegated to in television and movies), or some random minor character, but making Captain America gay or bisexual? I don't buy Marvel ever being brave enough to go there outside a one-issue what-if comic or some such.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:49
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MacheteZombie posted:At this point, Bucky and Cap's relationship is one of the best parts of the MCU's writing. I think the reason it ends up being discussed so much is because of how well written it is. It stands out more so than many of the main plots. Cap would do anything for Bucky, and it's extremely endearing. I think the thing holding it back though is that Sebastian Stan is pretty much the weakest actor in the entire sprawling Avengers ensemble. edit: i'll concede that he would be second-weakest if they hadn't wisely killed off Quicksilver though
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Aug 24, 2016 16:56
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Halloween Jack posted:Or maybe we're cynical about the idea of a hero solving problems with only the precisely correct about of morally perfect violence. Superheroes are a fantasy. "it's much easier to imagine the end of the DC cinematic universe than a much more modest radical change in batman not killing." - slavoj zizek
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Aug 24, 2016 16:57
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I think the thing holding it back though is that Sebastian Stan is pretty much the weakest actor in the entire sprawling Avengers ensemble. I can agree to this. I think he's a better character than several of the other Avengers, but Stan definitely isn't the best actor of the bunch. Bedshaped posted:Superheroes are a fantasy. And you are free to continue preferring your fantasy of a Superman who mind wipes the woman he loves to keep his Superman secret. MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Aug 24, 2016 |
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Aug 24, 2016 17:00
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Bedshaped posted:Superheroes are a fantasy. Escapist fantasy =/= all fantasy.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:04
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Bedshaped posted:Superheroes are a fantasy. You're looking at this backwards. A Batman who doesn't kill, a Stark who privatizes world peace, are invitations to "turn your brain off" and go along with the "thrill ride."
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Aug 24, 2016 17:05
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Bedshaped posted:Superheroes are a fantasy. Yes, but it's somebody else's fantasy, not mine. From tasers to precision bombing, I'm sick of that fantasy.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:07
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Isn't the whole secret identity thing mainly to protect the hero's family and friends? Like Green Goblin learns about Peter Parker and right away he goes after May and MJ. In the case of underpowered heroes, it's basically been there to keep snipers from taking random shots at Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson 24/7. When Kingpin outed Daredevil he ruined his whole life in Born Again. It makes sense for some heroes but not all. Truthfully, I can't see why Superman needs it since he can just be Superman and live in his fortress of solitude all the time.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:22
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BiggerBoat posted:Isn't the whole secret identity thing mainly to protect the hero's family and friends? Like Green Goblin learns about Peter Parker and right away he goes after May and MJ. In the case of underpowered heroes, it's basically been there to keep snipers from taking random shots at Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson 24/7. When Kingpin outed Daredevil he ruined his whole life in Born Again. This is why Superman doesn't tell the world he's Clark Kent. It in no way justifies not telling Lois Lane, which is presumably the conversation you're following up on.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:23
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yes, but it's somebody else's fantasy, not mine. From tasers to precision bombing, I'm sick of that fantasy. With Batman appearing in Suicide Squad to be considerably less lethal by saving Harley Quinn and trying to convince Deadshot to turn himself him, both of whom are vicious killers, and the rumours that he will once again have a no-kill rule in Justice League, do you consider this character change, if it turns out to be true, a big step backwards? This is not me being rhetorical, I genuinely want to know.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:25
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BiggerBoat posted:Isn't the whole secret identity thing mainly to protect the hero's family and friends? Like Green Goblin learns about Peter Parker and right away he goes after May and MJ. In the case of underpowered heroes, it's basically been there to keep snipers from taking random shots at Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson 24/7. When Kingpin outed Daredevil he ruined his whole life in Born Again. The point is, for superman at least, he doesn't want to. He's a dude from Kansas with family farm and he's gonna make the whole drat family proud about going to the big city and making a name for himself. Being Superman 24/7 runs a bit counter to that. Like, Supermans ideal vision for the future is probably one where both superman is unnecessary and where he can go root for KU football at a local bar every week
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Aug 24, 2016 17:25
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I am... I'm pretty sure if I were to flee the scene of a homicide and they caught me, I would be really really hosed. But I honestly don't know for sure, having never been involved in a homicide. Well, your posting is killing us. Nah, I'm just kidding. You're all right. Barudak posted:Stephen King has an unpublished Batman story It was published.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:30
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BiggerBoat posted:
Superman needs a secret identity so he won't go insane from the lack of human companionship. Like, I can't think of a single story where Clark is Superman 24/7 and nothing goes wrong. Karloff posted:With Batman appearing in Suicide Squad to be considerably less lethal by saving Harley Quinn and trying to convince Deadshot to turn himself him, both of whom are vicious killers, and the rumours that he will once again have a no-kill rule in Justice League, do you consider this character change, if it turns out to be true, a big step backwards? No, because a more merciful Batman is positive character development.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:30
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Karloff posted:With Batman appearing in Suicide Squad to be considerably less lethal by saving Harley Quinn and trying to convince Deadshot to turn himself him, both of whom are vicious killers, and the rumours that he will once again have a no-kill rule in Justice League, do you consider this character change, if it turns out to be true, a big step backwards? That's a fair question. A Batman who attempts to keep the body count down would be fine, depending on how it's done. I'll be disappointed if he's still slamming skulls into concrete walls and there's just some dialog about how they're only knocked out. Or if he uses some fanfical tech that's so good that he can disable buildings full of people without killing anyone. But if it's an authentic restriction he has to overcome, if it's a goal he has to actually work for, where he's paying a price for his idealism, that's fine with me. That could be an interesting progression of the character.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:31
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Wasn't it a Steven King pullquote that got Dark Knight Returns a lot of its early mainstream crossover? I think my copy had blurbs from him and Mickey Spillane
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Aug 24, 2016 17:31
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It's also possible that Justice League Batman is simply still not a very good person, just for different reasons than at the beginning of BvS. Or perhaps more importantly, that even if he becomes an idealist, the universe may not play along with his ideals.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:08
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Wasn't it a Steven King pullquote that got Dark Knight Returns a lot of its early mainstream crossover? I think my copy had blurbs from him and Mickey Spillane I know Stephen King wrote the introduction to one of the Sandman volumes in the early 90s. Peter Straub, Clive Barker, Harlan Ellison, Gene Wolfe, and Samuel R. Delany also wrote some of the Sandman intros.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:11
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Chairman Capone posted:I know Stephen King wrote the introduction to one of the Sandman volumes in the early 90s. Peter Straub, Clive Barker, Harlan Ellison, Gene Wolfe, and Samuel R. Delany also wrote some of the Sandman intros. I still really, really, really wish we got a Clive Barker Hellblazer run/graphic novel.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:13
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I still really, really, really wish we got a Clive Barker Hellblazer run/graphic novel. I'm actually kinda surprised we didn't.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:14
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I'd rather have an illustrated Imajica or Great and Secret Show than put Clive Barker to work on a long-running comic series which is ultimately not that challenging in terms of how it depicts the Judeo-Christian structure of the universe. I mean I'm sure it would have been fine, it just seems like it'd be kind of limiting.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Or perhaps more importantly, that even if he becomes an idealist, the universe may not play along with his ideals. Right, that's exactly what I'd hope for, one way or another.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:22
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Looking forward to movie fights using this.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:25
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The real couple is Cap and Falcon. They couples dress, workout together and seem to live in the same building.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:40
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And out of loving nowhere Dark Universe (seemingly) escapes from Development Hell. According to Variety at least.quote:Doug Liman is set to direct the Warner Bros. and DC Entertainment adaptation of “Dark Universe” — a.k.a., “Justice League Dark.” Not being familiar with Liman's work, what could be expect from this?
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Aug 24, 2016 19:02
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Edge of Tomorrow and Bourne Identity. I find this: "The film will play a major role in the new D.C. Cinematic Universe." hard to believe. It'll probably be closer to the MCU movies featuring infinity stones but with a motherbox.
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Aug 24, 2016 19:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'd rather have an illustrated Imajica or Great and Secret Show than put Clive Barker to work on a long-running comic series which is ultimately not that challenging in terms of how it depicts the Judeo-Christian structure of the universe. I don't see how it's more limiting to write a new story than just put out an illustrated edition of an old one (there is a Great and Secret Show graphic novel btw)
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Aug 24, 2016 19:20
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And out of loving nowhere Dark Universe (seemingly) escapes from
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Aug 24, 2016 19:21
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He's been off it for a while, unfortunately.
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Aug 24, 2016 19:28
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I don't see how it's more limiting to write a new story than just put out an illustrated edition of an old one (there is a Great and Secret Show graphic novel btw) Barker adaptations tend to take massive liberties with the source material. Which I'm totally on board with, mind, despite having specific gripes with what they did in Hellraiser and Midnight Meat Train.
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Aug 24, 2016 20:32
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Barker adaptations tend to take massive liberties with the source material. Which I'm totally on board with, mind, despite having specific gripes with what they did in Hellraiser and Midnight Meat Train. I actually really like the changes in Hellraiser, although The Hellbound Heart has its place too. I'd also say Lord of Illusions is a massive improvement over The Last Illusion (and, being another Occult Detective story, at least somewhat satisfies my desire for a Clive Barker Hellblazer story).
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Aug 24, 2016 20:39
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Late for Cap/Bucky chat but Cap flexing a chopper to stop Bucky from running off was amazing and the best scene in the movie.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:48
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