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aellisr posted:I can think of a host of left leaning celebrities that would be equally as unqualified as Trump: Sean Penn, Ke$sha, Kanye....probably Ke$ha would be the best analogue though. These people are all good and successful in their lines of work, which make them different from Trump who has been exposed to the nation as a lovely businessman
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Aug 26, 2016 07:49
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axe_vendetta posted:McGovern was hardly extremist, he merely wanted an end to the Vietnam war. The Democratic party simply couldn't produce a candidate like Trump, because he relies on the extreme right wing media that supports his conspiracy theories. I mean, what would the Democratic party equivalent of a Trump even look like? A lot of this had to do with Ted Kennedy being a prick as well
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Aug 26, 2016 07:50
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I can talk about this at length, but in a nutshell: She had a talk show which was cray (The Soup had great fun with clips from it), it got cancelled, she fired everyone on America's Next Top Model except herself and then it got cancelled, but now it's back on a different network but she's not starring on it anymore. My dentist's wife is a producer on the new version so I know alllll the dirt, but I can't imagine it would interest USPOL too much. Huh. I only vaguely know that America's Next Top Model existed because of television ads. I haven't consistently watched TV in years. That's kind of interesting though, maybe there's a thread in the TV subforum that would be relevant? I honestly don't go there, so I wouldn't know. I don't think she would be a good equivalent of Donald Trump though. I just don't think there's anybody who would be able to harness left-wing populism and fool everyone into their particular brand of con so they could make bank off the attempt. Way more of the Democratic electorate would have to be like the Green Party for it to work.
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Aug 26, 2016 07:52
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Whoa, my wife and I stopped watching ANTM like 6 years ago and we didn't know she had some insane flameout. She never really seemed like much of a con like Trump though, the guy was basically carved out of the just world fallacy and the republican id.
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Aug 26, 2016 07:54
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Lightning Knight posted:Huh. I only vaguely know that America's Next Top Model existed because of television ads. I haven't consistently watched TV in years. That's kind of interesting though, maybe there's a thread in the TV subforum that would be relevant? I honestly don't go there, so I wouldn't know. Maybe some anti-vax nutjob?
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Aug 26, 2016 07:54
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The "trigger warning" concept has for some time been subjected to heavy mockery and pushback from just about all corners. The backlash against it is not simply an "alt-right" thing (anymore?). Arguments have emerged that it's DIY censorship, pitiful little help for students who aren't going to be "coddled" after college, defeats the idea that college "challenges your assumptions," and so on. (The idea that college doesn't coddle your development in countless ways already or that it really challenges your worldview is a whole other bread basket full of bullshit to sort through). It has also of course led to numerous political fables, as mentioned--a friend of a friend said/did a thing and then everyone's day was ruined by an intellectual safe space. The extreme argument, that "empowerment" is here actually a corrupting force encouraging people to behave like children instead of thinking critically, is being buoyed by apocryphal stories of crying women who shut down a classroom because they can't read words on a page or hear the word rape in any context without becoming disruptive and well, you know, hysterical. The topic is also revealing all sorts of unsavory stuff, like that we don't have the societal infrastructure to "deal" with PTSD. quote:"This program may contain strong language and some adult situations. Viewer discretion is advised." True, but TV censorship is also nearly dead, and TV is a willing enterprise rather than a mandatory one. TV advisories are also meant for children. Name Change fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 07:55
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Rhesus Pieces posted:"This program may contain strong language and some adult situations. Viewer discretion is advised." The kinds of people most likely to raise a stink about trigger warnings were born in the 90's. They barely knew of the concept. Chances are they've had free reign on violent/smutty content since the turn of the century, thanks to the internet.
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Aug 26, 2016 07:55
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Axetrain posted:Bill Maher, maybe. I'd vote for him in a general election. Can't imagine the attack ads against an atheist candidate, though.
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Aug 26, 2016 07:59
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:I'd vote for him in a general election. Can't imagine the attack ads against an atheist candidate, though. Really, you'd vote for the neocolonialist anti-vaxxer with some particularly childish atheism on the side?
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Aug 26, 2016 08:02
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Bill Maher Spends All Night Arguing With Republican Hookerquote:"He was like, 'How can a whore support an administration that legislates against her own livelihood?" Dobson said. "And I was like, 'Don't call me a whore.'"
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Aug 26, 2016 08:07
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Maybe some anti-vax nutjob? I would really like to believe that the Democratic general electorate wouldn't go crazy for that. I feel like for there to be a left-wing equivalent of Donald Trump there would have to be some kind of insane Presidency, like an even worse W., in order to motivate people to fall in line behind the crazy. That's implicitly part of why Trump is succeeding, that the Republicans have convinced their voters that Obama is the anti-Christ who will destroy America and has been destroying America and we must defeat him At All Costs. Well Trump is basically At All Costs, appealing to enough of the base to win the primary, and many of the rest will just hold their noses because he's Not Obama and Not Hillary. Maybe in some hypothetical world where Dick Cheney had a) run after W. and b) had a chance in hell of winning, we could've seen the rise of left-wing Trump. But even then, I really doubt it. Edit: I keep wanting to call Trump, Donald, because we refer to Hillary as such. But nah, gently caress that guy. I do look forward to him getting super mad when Hillary calls him Donald at the debates in the most condescending mom tone in the universe, DNC style.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:07
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See this is what I'm talking about.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:09
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Axetrain posted:See this is what I'm talking about. There's a man who can stay focused on the real issues. 
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Aug 26, 2016 08:11
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I mean I get its an Onion article but if I hadn't clicked the link I would not really have doubted it. Maher kind of fits the reverse Trump role. He's an outsider in that he has never held office, buys into some weird conspiracy theories, and is mostly just a narcissistic celebrity who wants attention. E: And his views aren't all that in line with what would be considered normal democratic ideas.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:13
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Lightning Knight posted:I would really like to believe that the Democratic general electorate wouldn't go crazy for that. I guess I've been assuming our left-wing Trump is evil and horrible like him, not someone cool leftists like us would actually like. I think realistically the only true leftist extremists history has to offer us were real into guillotines and gulags, and once you get all authoritarian dictatorship about things you're not much of a leftist in my book. And you should call him Donnie.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I guess I've been assuming our left-wing Trump is evil and horrible like him, not someone cool leftists like us would actually like. I think realistically the only true leftist extremists history has to offer us were real into guillotines and gulags, and once you get all authoritarian dictatorship about things you're not much of a leftist in my book. In my estimation, the thing that would make a left-wing populist a Trump equivalent is that they're offering what people want to hear, not what is actually realistic, in the interests of making money later off of things like book sales. That's why I don't think it's a fair comparison to Bernie, because while he played fast and loose with policy he was never suggesting blatantly impossible things like building a wall (and making Mexico pay for it), or deporting all of the Muslims. Trump is first and foremost a conman; he's not running to be the President, he's basking in the glory and counting on the checks he's going to get later for his inevitable books and media tie-ins. Many of his followers are true believers, but Trump is clearly not, or at least not to the same extent. I believe he's a racist, but he's not the outrageous fascist he portrays himself as. He's just doing what they want to hear so he can run a scam on them, the best scam anyone ever ran, the yuuuugest scam. Because the right-wing media sphere has groomed these people for decades to be susceptible to the same poo poo from everyone else on the right, he succeeded quite easily. He out-conned the conmen. And that's why I don't think there can be a left-wing equivalent to Donald Trump. Ideologues and extremists? Sure. Populists? Absolutely. But the con artist nature of Trump, that's one of a kind and exclusive to the modern American Right.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:30
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aellisr posted:You know, to be fair, Ke$ha is more qualified than Donald, my apologies. I really am drawing a blank as to what a Democratic version of Trump would look like. Dr. Oz has a wife... But seriously, it would be a snakeoil pusher like that who played people's fears of big government spying to better steal your weed/raw milk/unvaccinated child. They'd cast the same doubt on facts and reality established by scientific inquiry and the credibility of experts. They'd have some halfbaked public works project or social service plan that will totally fix everything, they swear. They'd promise to slash and burn defense spending and probably disband the military, CIA, FBI, etc. Instead of immigrants they'd rail against big business as an ill-defined but singular evil that must be done away with.
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Aug 26, 2016 08:31
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quote:Added Dobson: "Then he asked me to put my face up next to his dick while he jerked off." oh I guess he paid her to watch his show
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Aug 26, 2016 08:40
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I guess I've been assuming our left-wing Trump is evil and horrible like him, not someone cool leftists like us would actually like. I think realistically the only true leftist extremists history has to offer us were real into guillotines and gulags, and once you get all authoritarian dictatorship about things you're not much of a leftist in my book. Clone Robespierre
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Aug 26, 2016 08:46
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You put a general list of heavy topics for each material covered in the syllabus. It's upfront and gives enough time to prepare. Seems harmless
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Aug 26, 2016 09:03
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Trump is White Male identity politics. The dems can't have a national Trump figure so long as they are a diverse coalition not dominated by any one identity. That's a contingent structural fact, not personal or organisational virtue.
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Aug 26, 2016 09:13
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:What do I not know about Ke$ha that makes her at all comparable to the American Mussolini? The only remotely political thing I've ever heard about her is that she objected to being forced to work with her rapist. Civilized Fishbot posted:These people are all good and successful in their lines of work, which make them different from Trump who has been exposed to the nation as a lovely businessman
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Aug 26, 2016 09:49
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radmonger posted:The dems can't have a national Trump figure so long as they are a diverse coalition not dominated by any one identity. I agree with this. You might be able to come up with a Dem personality that appeals to a specific sub-set of the Democratic Party's coalition, i.e. an anti-vaxxer nutjob, but you're not going to be able to cover everyone, because the party is, at least for the moment, composed of multiple groups. (this of course dovetails with Trump's support only really coming from white men, and the sometimes considered problem of the Democratic base unified by the fear of the rise of fascism more than anything else) So a discussion of "who would a Democratic Trump?" needs to narrow down the question of which slice of the Democratic base would this hypothetical-Trumpian figure go all-in on. Because even saying "a Leftist Trump" already means you're cutting out huge swaths of the party that are not ... well, Leftists.
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Aug 26, 2016 09:51
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what do you goons suppose are the odds of a rightwing terrorist attack on the level of the oklahoma city bombing happening during clintons presidency
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Aug 26, 2016 10:03
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Kanine posted:what do you goons suppose are the odds of a rightwing terrorist attack on the level of the oklahoma city bombing happening during clintons presidency I mean, it's been, what, 25 years? OKC was before I was born, so it's been quite a long time. We made it through 8 years of Obama without something like that happening, either from Islamic or white supremacist terrorism. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's impossible, but OKC happened when the white supremacist movement was still angry at the combination of losing control of the government after years of Republican rule, desegregation attempts, and events like Waco and Ruby Ridge. The country is less white and among white people the anger felt at things like desegregation isn't as recent, and the number of white supremacists is both less and much older. The modern extreme right in America is, for lack of a way to put it, also much more spineless than it was 25-30 years ago. I'm sure we'll see more of the likes of Dylan Roof, smaller scale but still dangerous and impactful domestic terrorism, but it probably won't manifest as much worse than your average mass shooting, just with some white supremacist flavoring to the shooter. My expectation is that the worst possible scenario in a post-OKC, post-9/11 America would be something like the Boston Marathon bombers: nasty and damaging but not the catastrophic, thousands killed level of days gone by.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:09
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Kanine posted:what do you goons suppose are the odds of a rightwing terrorist attack on the level of the oklahoma city bombing happening during clintons presidency Probably less now that we've had 21 years since OKC and 15 since 9/11 to look leery eyed at anything that could be considered a bomb making tool or ingredient. Plus every major right wing group/message board is just chock full of FBI agents at this point.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:Probably less now that we've had 21 years since OKC and 15 since 9/11 to look leery eyed at anything that could be considered a bomb making tool or ingredient. Plus every major right wing group/message board is just chock full of FBI agents at this point. Also, they already have all these guns; and mass shootings are practically a patriotic tradition at this point.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:12
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Kanine posted:what do you goons suppose are the odds of a rightwing terrorist attack on the level of the oklahoma city bombing happening during clintons presidency The US implemented bomb control regulation in the wake of the OKC bombing, so I'd peg it at fairly low.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:The US implemented bomb control regulation in the wake of the OKC bombing, so I'd peg it at fairly low. Clearly we don't need such nonsense as bomb control. The only way to stop a bad guy with a bomb ahahaha I can't even finish this bullshit joke.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:18
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Reading the last 5-10 pages, it occurred to me that people have some really weird ideas about Europe. Keep in mind that there are very large differences between Western and Eastern Europe (much larger than between the individual states in the US), so what i wrote below might not be accurate for all European countries, but certainly Western European ones, and most likely at a general European levels. Also keep in mind that rankings are generally terrible, because the take a (usually) complex and nuanced phenomenon and reduces it to a single number, and in addition ranks might rank one thing over another, even though the differences are minute, or barely can be said to be differences in reality. Anyway, social mobility is without a doubt lower in the US than it is in general in Europe. I realize this can be somewhat provocative, seeing as the American Dream narrative is so strong, but it's the truth regardless, social mobility (while trending downwards) is higher in most European countries. The US definitely has more income inequality than most European countries. The US consistently have more poor people than most of Europe (there are a lot of different measures for this, all of them can be critiqued rather heavily, but at best, the US can be compared to poorly ranking European countries). The US education is at best on par with Europe, but (again lotsa different measures), probably lower ranked, and at the very least tend to spend less on eduction than most European countries. The US ranks below most of Western Europe when it comes to democratization, but higher than eastern-southern Europe. The US ranks as a middle of the road European country when it comes to happiness and when it comes to freedom of the press. People in Europe generally have more money to spend (that is, purchasing power) the US is about between a western and a Southern European country, when it comes to how much money do individual people actually have in comparison to what things cost. The US has a vastly higher incarceration (and execution) rate, even above many dictatorial hellholes. The US healthcare system ranks lower than most European ones (this one is also hard to measure), also has somewhat lower life expectancies. Murder and violent crime is a lot higher in the US (also traffic fatalities, per capita, per capita and per vehicle-km). I'm actually not writing this to poo poo on the US, just to clear up some of the confusion there seems to be about Europe. There are plenty of aspects where the US is doing way better than Western Europe, for example personal and economic freedom, the US ranks lower than a couple of European countries, but higher than many. GNP, military, etc. is stronger for the US and racism/discrimination is much, much lower in the US (though it's not as overt in Europe as some here seem to think, no one in politics are actually calling themselves racists or nazis or anything, outside the very radical fringe. The new style of neo-nazism is much more tv friendly, and present these selves as just being very concerned about their countries proud 'culture', and the economic impact of immigration, etc.).
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Aug 26, 2016 10:19
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I can't take you seriously with that avatar. It's both distracting and incredibly creepy. Like a schoolteacher giving a powerpoint presentation but he left his MLP porn tab open and you can hear it in the background while he talks.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:24
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Revelation 2-13 posted:racism/discrimination is much, much lower in the US I'd like to know what you mean by this.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:44
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Lightning Knight posted:I can't take you seriously with that avatar. It's both distracting and incredibly creepy. Like a schoolteacher giving a powerpoint presentation but he left his MLP porn tab open and you can hear it in the background while he talks. I agree completely, and that's a great analogy btw.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:44
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I think demagogues like Trump are the inevitable conclusion of the casual, kneejerk contempt with which many people regard politics and the political class in this country. Whilst it's true that money has too much influence in politics, and that many politicians lack conviction and integrity, people use this as an excuse to tune out from serious political debate entirely and write off all politicians as the same. It's intellectual laziness and it needs to be confronted and rejected. I find it particularly annoying how these people who reject the whole political process assume a sense of superiority to anyone with actual political convictions as though they know the real truth and the rest of us who are actually trying to deal with issues are childish and foolish. We live in a democracy, however flawed, and if our political class is corrupt then that is a problem with the way we engage in politics.
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Aug 26, 2016 10:59
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Kanine posted:what do you goons suppose are the odds of a rightwing terrorist attack on the level of the oklahoma city bombing happening during clintons presidency Clinton has been demonized to such an incredible extent that we have rallies calling for her to be executed. There is definitely going to be assassination attempts. I don't understand why the secret service allows people to go around calling for the death of a presidential candidate. Freedom of speech has it's limits.
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Aug 26, 2016 11:01
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Civilized Fishbot posted:These people are all good and successful in their lines of work, which make them different from Trump who has been exposed to the nation as a lovely businessman I remember reading that Kesha was really great at high school but dropped out for a chance at a popstar career. As trashy as they are, she writes all her songs, which is an absolute rarity in pop.
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Aug 26, 2016 11:01
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Yvonmukluk posted:Isn't Ke$ha also really smart? Like 'enrolled in an International Baccalaureate Program, near-perfect SAT scores and would drive to her local college after school to sneak into history lectures' smart. Seems like she's probably overqualified compared to a few politicians, not just Trump. Yeah that's exactly what I recall hearing.
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Aug 26, 2016 11:03
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botany posted:I'd like to know what you mean by this. There are (again) different ways of measuring it, here is a simple example which I really like, the question is about whether or not you'd want a neighbor of a difference race : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/ Of course, as with all measures of that sort there are several problems, but overall you'll find the same pattern in most of the easily available stuff on discrimination and racism. There is however, quite a spread in Europe, so probably some European countries would compare favorably to the US. e:overall, what I was trying to say, is that the US fairly consistently scores as one of the countries in the world with highest race/ethnicity tolerance across many different ways of measuring those sorts of things. Which is different from whether the justice system is bad etc. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 11:06
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What people don't understand about PTSD, trigger warnings, etc. is that it's not about avoiding triggering material entirely but managing your PTSD. It is helpful to be given a warning if something that will evoke a strong emotional response is about to happen, and you can prepare for it. It doesn't mean that you can't deal with it at all, it is simply a useful warning so that you know what it is coming. And you can simply add up the benefits trigger warnings give to those who need them versus the trivial cost towards those who don't and it makes you wonder why this is even an issue at all.
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Aug 26, 2016 11:07
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Revelation 2-13 posted:rankings are generally terrible, because the take a (usually) complex and nuanced phenomenon and reduces it to a single number, and in addition ranks might rank one thing over another, even though the differences are minute, or barely can be said to be differences in reality.  *follows up with about 15 rankings without actual numbers and sources* --- Yes, European countries are all different, but there are still some developments that transcend national boundaries and apply to more than one country. Yes, rankings may sometimes be unfair, but they can also kick people into action to improve things.
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Aug 26, 2016 11:14
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