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axe_vendetta posted:It seems bizarre that people would respond to their politicians being overly influenced by the wealthy one percent in this country by actually voting for a member of the one percent who is openly corrupt. Most people aren't able to (or don't want to) reconcile their distrust of the "elite" with the idea of American meritocracy. Like, the thing I hear constantly from the couple of Trump supporters that I know is that "he's rich, so he must be doing something right." Trump's wealth and political outsider status gives a lot of cover for people who aren't willing to just be openly and vocally racist.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:25
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WampaLord posted:I'm so sick of this pearl clutching bullshit. Just accept the fact that 40% of the country is poo poo and will vote for literally anyone with an R next to their name. Wow, I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm afraid I don't think that the problem is as simple as the fact that 40% of the country is "poo poo", and I'm interested in how we have reached this point and where we go from here in the future. If that is pearl clutching, so be it.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:25
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WampaLord posted:I'm so sick of this pearl clutching bullshit. Just accept the fact that 40% of the country is poo poo and will vote for literally anyone with an R next to their name. Literal fascism should be strongly opposed, friend.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:27
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Boogaleeboo posted:It's not 40% of the country. It's 40% of people that vote, at best. In reality it's like.....10% of the country that is probably that poo poo. Granted--I'm not sure we can whittle it to 1/10 with any meaningful extrapolation. However, the people that vote are the ones that will decide this thing, so functionally we are talking about 40% of the people driven enough to vote will, without a hint of remorse, vote for an amorphous blob of occasionally-contradictory and divisive policy positions. If that isn't cause for concern, I don't know what is.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:29
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Boogaleeboo posted:It's not 40% of the country. It's 40% of people that vote, at best. In reality it's like.....10% of the country that is probably that poo poo. I would imagine that non-voters are, in general, way shittier people than voters.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:29
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Also abandoning the most ignorant part of our population because their ignorant ideas are poo poo doesn't really follow a progressive or democratic tradition.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:30
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axe_vendetta posted:Wow, I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm afraid I don't think that the problem is as simple as the fact that 40% of the country is "poo poo", and I'm interested in how we have reached this point and where we go from here in the future. If that is pearl clutching, so be it. I didn't mean to go off so much on you specifically, it's been a whole bunch of posts of "Sure, Trump is losing, but not by enough!!!" I don't think it's actually possible for a major party candidate to lose by more than like 35% in this day and age, so what are people expecting? WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Literal fascism should be strongly opposed, friend. Trump's not going to win, so it seems like it's being opposed pretty well.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:30
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People are approaching "conversatives endorse Hillary" as some kind of sign she's secretly a rightist/centrist, when that's not indicated by any of her current policy proposals. Really you should approach it as a sign that Trump is a loving insane fascist who alienates everyone.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:30
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sarmhan posted:People are approaching "conversatives endorse Hillary" as some kind of sign she's secretly a rightist/centrist, when that's not indicated by any of her current policy proposals. Really you should approach it as a sign that Trump is a loving insane fascist who alienates everyone. The fact that she's getting their votes without a single policy overture or concession is a really, really bad sign for the GOP's future.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:31
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sarmhan posted:People are approaching "conversatives endorse Hillary" as some kind of sign she's secretly a rightist/centrist, when that's not indicated by any of her current policy proposals. Really you should approach it as a sign that Trump is a loving insane fascist who alienates everyone. But are you aware the 1990s exist?
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Aug 26, 2016 18:31
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LeeMajors posted:Granted--I'm not sure we can whittle it to 1/10. And furthermore, the people that vote are the ones that will decide this thing, so functionally we are talking about 40% of the people driven enough to vote will, without a hint of remorse, vote for an amorphous blob of occasionally-contradictory and divisive policy positions. Ok so we're concerned, now what? In many cases these die-hard R voters are actual close family members of people in this thread, and even they haven't been able to change any minds. You can't reason people out of opinions they didn't reason themselves into. We can criticize and mock them, but they're going to vote that way until they die. All we can do is try to raise sane voter turnout to outnumber them, and odds are looking pretty good for that this year.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:34
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lol they can't do anything to him they're stuck with him 
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Aug 26, 2016 18:34
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Ok so we're concerned, now what? In many cases these die-hard R voters are actual close family members of people in this thread, and even they haven't been able to change any minds. You can't reason people out of opinions they didn't reason themselves into. We can criticize and mock them, but they're going to vote that way until they die. All we can do is try to raise sane voter turnout to outnumber them, and odds are looking pretty good for that this year. I actually agree with you, particularly the bolded. My parents are squarely in that group, as well as my father-in-law and his lady. I'm not necessarily saying there's something else that should be done, but we should probably be concerned that what we viewed before as 'fringe' is more mainstream than we could've feared. It's not wrong to be shocked by that, and it probably should redouble our efforts to educate and increase voter turnout. It's not pearl-clutching to think this is eye-opening.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:37
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In today's "THIS loving ELECTION" moment: https://twitter.com/BKcolin/status/769223117503946753
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Aug 26, 2016 18:37
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LeeMajors posted:Granted--I'm not sure we can whittle it to 1/10 with any meaningful extrapolation. A bit more than half the country votes [It's a range, and it's trending high 50s], and that gets you to about 25ish percent when you go to 40% of *that*. Now how many of those people are just backing straight ticket R [Which isn't great, and can support terrible people] and how many are literally just violently racist and authoritarian? I can't say. I don't think it's all of them, although cutting it around half is probably generous. It's still a minority of the country, if one that never shuts the hell up. Still a problem, still needs to be dealt with, but quite a bit less than nearly half the country. Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:I would imagine that non-voters are, in general, way shittier people than voters. Well they aren't loving help support Donald Trump now, are they?
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Aug 26, 2016 18:38
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Ok so we're concerned, now what? In many cases these die-hard R voters are actual close family members of people in this thread, and even they haven't been able to change any minds. You can't reason people out of opinions they didn't reason themselves into. We can criticize and mock them, but they're going to vote that way until they die. All we can do is try to raise sane voter turnout to outnumber them, and odds are looking pretty good for that this year. Exactly my point. Look at the polling of Texas, where Hillary is winning among under-65 voters. Texas flips blue and the GOP is dead. Yes, it's a problem, but the only solution is to wait for them to die out. In the meantime, why bother constantly worrying that Trump will get some percentage of votes that you find troubling but will not even be close enough to win? LeeMajors posted:It's not pearl-clutching to think this is eye-opening. It makes you seem naive.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:38
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WampaLord posted:I'm so sick of this pearl clutching bullshit. Just accept the fact that 40% of the country is poo poo and will vote for literally anyone with an R next to their name. I've watched at least five of my friends go from being uninterested in politics, but agreeing bush was bad, war bad, obama seems cool iunno, to thinking Trump is fantastic and those loving mexicans are why my pay is poo poo, build the wall, lock her up, SJW college kid entitlement is at least the 2nd most important issue right now next to purging ourselves of those loving muslims, etc. etc. The anecdotal flaw doesn't make it less lovely feeling and its really up to debate how widespread the sentiment is, I grant you that, but its scary. And its not "pearl clutching" its called arzying and its about how in all of those deep red states that tang hitler won in the primary, little would bes are already taking note of that fact their best shot at winning a primary is being the one who thinks hillary DID steal the election.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:40
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iospace posted:In today's "THIS loving ELECTION" moment: It's a good pitch to be honest. "So good it hides even Hillary's corruption from the US Congress"
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Aug 26, 2016 18:42
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LeeMajors posted:I actually agree with you, particularly the bolded. My parents are squarely in that group, as well as my father-in-law and his lady. Not to dredge up the fight of a dozen pages ago, but it's mostly blue eye-opening. White people are finally seeing what the rest of us have been talking about all this time, and for that I'm almost thankful to Trump.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:43
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WampaLord posted:I didn't mean to go off so much on you specifically, it's been a whole bunch of posts of "Sure, Trump is losing, but not by enough!!!" The largest Presidential popular vote margin in US history, in an election where there was actually competition (so not George Washington's, or James Monroe's in 1820 where he was the only real candidate and got 80.6% of the vote) was Warren Harding vs James Cox in 1920. Harding got 60.3% of the vote and Cox got just 34.2% of the vote. So that's a margin of just 26.1%. Anyone expecting Trump to lose by 35% or even 30% is being, well, overly hopeful at the least.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:43
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The fact that Trump is regularly polling below the 40% floor thought to be ironclad in this hyperpartisan political paradigm we operate under shows that most Americans have very low tolerance for bigotry.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:45
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So, she just wrote zeros to her hard drives - which literally anyone throwing out old data should do.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:46
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zoux posted:The fact that Trump is regularly polling below the 40% floor thought to be ironclad in this hyperpartisan political paradigm we operate under shows that most Americans have very low tolerance for bigotry. His campaign is being run by a wife beating white supremacist. He should be polling 0.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:47
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iospace posted:In today's "THIS loving ELECTION" moment: I run a 35-pass overwrite every time I want to wipe free space or do a deep clean. I don't have any hidden secrets I am trying to get rid off, I just like to be overly thorough.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:50
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iospace posted:In today's "THIS loving ELECTION" moment: An admin who doesn't know how to secure delete without 3rd party tools is a shameful admin.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:50
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Goatman Sacks posted:His campaign is being run by a wife beating white supremacist. He should be polling 0. Welcome to the real world.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:51
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Goatman Sacks posted:His campaign is being run by a wife beating white supremacist. He should be polling 0. He is, among black people
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Aug 26, 2016 18:53
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KiteAuraan posted:I run a 35-pass overwrite every time I want to wipe free space or do a deep clean. I don't have any hidden secrets I am trying to get rid off, I just like to be overly thorough. If this isn't a joke, I just want to point out that you're dumb.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:54
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Goatman Sacks posted:His campaign is being run by a wife beating white supremacist. He should be polling 0. Why are you so certain there are 0 wife beating white supremacist citizens?
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Aug 26, 2016 18:54
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fishmech posted:The largest Presidential popular vote margin in US history, in an election where there was actually competition (so not George Washington's, or James Monroe's in 1820 where he was the only real candidate and got 80.6% of the vote) was Warren Harding vs James Cox in 1920. Harding got 60.3% of the vote and Cox got just 34.2% of the vote. To add to this Mondale got 40% of the vote and only carried one state and DC. 40% is a realignment-level loss.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:54
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One thing it's hard for a politics nerd like me to really wrap my head around is how little most people pay attention to politics. Tons of people are occupied with other things - not stupid, mostly, just busy working or raising kids or pursuing other hobbies, because this hyper-vigilant attention to the news we do is a hobby. A lot of the bedrock 40% for both the Rs and the Ds are just people who know there's a presidential election coming up and that's about it. Even the most glaring bold-faced headlines we talk about, like Trump's attack on the Khan family or Hillary's email ordering the assassination of Dr. Ben Ghazi, plenty of people just completely miss that. If you don't watch the news on TV or look it up online where would you even see it? Video games are the primary form of media consumption for a growing number of people, and that's a closed loop. You don't get headlines on Netflix, or QVC, or those DJ-free robo-playlist radio stations, and those are all huge. Tons of people just like their media to be relaxing white noise - anything resembling an argument or negativity just turns them off completely, regardless of how they vote.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:56
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WampaLord posted:It makes you seem naive. Perhaps. I mean I work public service (EMS) in the deep south and happen to be surrounded by racist shitheels day-in and day-out. Even so, his traction surprises me--and has basically drained my Belief In Human Decency Reservoir--which was already catastrophically low. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Not to dredge up the fight of a dozen pages ago, but it's mostly blue eye-opening. White people are finally seeing what the rest of us have been talking about all this time, and for that I'm almost thankful to Trump. Fair enough. Like I said above, I'm surrounded by it all day, every day--but in places where I expect it. When I see how absolutely mainstream it is and how much license he's given these people to be publicly horrible, I can't help but feel a little concerned and ashamed that most of us have underestimated its prevalence. LeeMajors fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 18:56
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comes along bort posted:To add to this Mondale got 40% of the vote and only carried one state and DC. 40% is a realignment-level loss. Yes, people need to re-calibrate expectations a bit. If Trump actually loses 60-40 (realistically maybe more like 58-40 with Johnson/Stein getting like 2%), the narrative is going to be "Landslide historic victory." It seems close in terms of absolute numbers, but winning an election by 10+ points is gigantic.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:58
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Phone posted:If this isn't a joke, I just want to point out that you're dumb. It is, except for the one time I did it just to have fun messing around in the prompt and it took 2 1/2 hours to clear out a single cache. Never again.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:59
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LeeMajors posted:Perhaps. I mean I work public service (EMS) in the deep south and happen to be surrounded by racist shitheels day-in and day-out. Even so, his traction surprises me--and has basically drained my Belief In Human Decency Reservoir--which was already catastrophically low. Maybe, but the main cultural difference between North and South white people is how vocally racist they are. Actual racism levels are about the same, from what I've seen. So all those shitheels you see? That's how many there are, generally. Maybe you could turn the reservoir into a nice skateboard park.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:59
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:One thing it's hard for a politics nerd like me to really wrap my head around is how little most people pay attention to politics. Tons of people are occupied with other things - not stupid, mostly, just busy working or raising kids or pursuing other hobbies, because this hyper-vigilant attention to the news we do is a hobby. A lot of the bedrock 40% for both the Rs and the Ds are just people who know there's a presidential election coming up and that's about it. Even the most glaring bold-faced headlines we talk about, like Trump's attack on the Khan family or Hillary's email ordering the assassination of Dr. Ben Ghazi, plenty of people just completely miss that. One of my favorite information saturation stories regards Iraq WMD. In the mid-2000s, the media spent a lot of time reporting that we found no WMD in Iraq. "No WMD" they said," "No WMD in Iraq." Something like 70 percent of Americans, when polled, said that Iraq had WMD. Why? Because the amount of information thrown at people is impossible to fully process, and people don't tend to hear negatives. They just heard "Iraq" and "WMD" a lot, and formed a connection. People often know things without really learning them, and don't question why. It's because all the information we see - and I mean all of it, from traffic lights to food labels - our brain has to process, and most of that processing is subconscious. It takes a lot of time and work just to be an active media consumer.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:02
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Jack's Flow posted:I always thought trigger warnings are a good idea, until I read that New Yorker article on a liberal arts college where students demanded a trigger warning at the beginning of Antigone. World's smallest violin. Late teens/early twenties are when people are growing into their political awareness. They are literally trying to figure it out how 'the real world' works by pushing this stuff, and it's pathetic to watch so many people wring their hands over it. High education did not crumble because students took over university president's offices and demanded the end of the ROTC. It's not going down because of trigger warnings or speaker protests.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Maybe you could turn the reservoir into a nice skateboard park.  iospace posted:In today's "THIS loving ELECTION" moment: Why does Trey Gowdy look like an extra in There Will Be Blood now?
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Aug 26, 2016 19:03
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FactsAreUseless posted:This is really important to keep in mind. Information saturation also plays a large part. There were reports of people in polls saying the media seemed dishonest based on the number of anti-Trump ads that were running. People don't have the capacity to consciously process every bit of information they come across. Don't put salt in your eyes.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:04
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:One thing it's hard for a politics nerd like me to really wrap my head around is how little most people pay attention to politics. Tons of people are occupied with other things - not stupid, mostly, just busy working or raising kids or pursuing other hobbies, because this hyper-vigilant attention to the news we do is a hobby. A lot of the bedrock 40% for both the Rs and the Ds are just people who know there's a presidential election coming up and that's about it. Even the most glaring bold-faced headlines we talk about, like Trump's attack on the Khan family or Hillary's email ordering the assassination of Dr. Ben Ghazi, plenty of people just completely miss that. I don't understand what makes people both uninformed and really gung ho about voting, though.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:07
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