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Jabor posted:It's pretty solid. It is a one-toughness creature, which is a hefty downside (dies to Darkblast, Golgari Charm, Conflagrate for 3...), but the Dredge deck literally can't do anything until they draw something to remove it. I would play it as a sideboard 1-of in any deck that can tutor for it. They also have to draw fair, until they find the answer. No dredging to get through the deck and find the darkblast or conflagrate. They gotta get it straight up. Plus, it turns off their bridges if you're involved in combat (excluding your jailer, which you want to pretend is an artifact/enchantment.)
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Aug 26, 2016 17:01
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mehall posted:Dredge Chat: Correct. But strangely enough, you can cast it normally with a Yawgmoth's Will. Not that that means much in modern. ShaneB posted:I don't understand how having to build literally every deck around the question "but what about twin??" made it a better format. As opposed to "but what about burn?" Or dredge? Or bogles? Or infect? Or Tron? Or *insert linear deck here*? Why was Twin the deck that people got upset about having to answer? Was it because it was a 50% deck with blue cards? Real question. Twin was the deck that punished you for trying to goldfish. There isn't a deck that does that now, so there isn't a good reason not to do it. Again coming back to Todd Anderson's article he sums it up pretty well. Tl;dr the Twin kill was generally bad and not how you wanted to win in the fair deck mirror. But Twin had a way to punish the linear decks that didn't have a way to interact with the combo, which is most of them. Remand, Deceiver, Twin was going to beat most decks without the ability to interact with the combo, which most of the current decks in modern don't have for game 1. Then post-board they either dilute their deck to answer the combo or they probably lose to the combo again. That's something that no other deck can do, at least not so early in the game. Nahiri decks can't do what Twin did until turn 7, and it's at sorcerery speed. Blue Tron is the next closest deck I can think of that has that option and it's turn 5 at the earliest and that's if you don't actually play any blue mana (which means you probably died on turn 3) and involves drawing 2 separate 1-ofs.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:03
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Modern is rapidly becoming my favorite format because it's more ~ INTERACTIVE ~ Unban Stoneforge, Jace, Preordain and Bloodbraid Elf, bam. Easy best format
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Aug 26, 2016 17:12
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Twin was a dumb deck that forced every deck in the format to either be twin or have a way to beat twin. The fact that it required you to slow down because if you tried to goldfish you'd get counterspelled and die was fine, but the fact that it was also the same deck had match ups that are eot your turn 3 pestermite/Deceiver Exarch tap down your blue source turn 4 lol I win was dumb. And I play Merfolk, the twin matchup was skewed in your favor because you can play countermagic and creatures off vial, which made most of their countermagic useless. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 17:25
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stinkles1112 posted:Modern is rapidly becoming my favorite format because it's more ~ INTERACTIVE ~ Yes, No, No, No
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Aug 26, 2016 17:29
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stinkles1112 posted:Modern is rapidly becoming my favorite format because it's more ~ INTERACTIVE ~ Unban BBE, artifact lands, Pod, Deathrite, Dig, Green Sun, Ponder, Preordain, Jace, Top, Twin, and Stoneforge. Let the format figure itself out. Ban Empty and Grapeshot if storm gets too good again. Ban Plating and/or Ravager and/or Opal if affinity is too good.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:30
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suicidesteve posted:As opposed to "but what about burn?" Or dredge? Or bogles? Or infect? Or Tron? Or *insert linear deck here*? Why was Twin the deck that people got upset about having to answer? Was it because it was a 50% deck with blue cards? Real question. It was the part where it's never safe to tap out after turn 3. I agree that modern would be better if it was less linear, but forcing every deck in the format to be able to hold up instant speed interaction for the entirety of the game is not the way to do it.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:31
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little munchkin posted:It was the part where it's never safe to tap out after turn 3. I agree that modern would be better if it was less linear, but forcing every deck in the format to be able to hold up instant speed interaction for the entirety of the game is not the way to do it. Force of Will helps solve that problem but 
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Aug 26, 2016 17:33
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suicidesteve posted:As opposed to "but what about burn?" Or dredge? Or bogles? Or infect? Or Tron? Or *insert linear deck here*? Why was Twin the deck that people got upset about having to answer? Was it because it was a 50% deck with blue cards? Real question. Like Count Bleck said, it was a bad (IMO) "police" deck. It constricted deckbuilding AND play patterns (like munchkin said) too much on both sides of the battlefield.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:33
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suicidesteve posted:Unban BBE, artifact lands, Pod, Deathrite, Dig, Green Sun, Ponder, Preordain, Jace, Top, Twin, and Stoneforge. Let the format figure itself out. Ban Empty and Grapeshot if storm gets too good again. Ban Plating and/or Ravager and/or Opal if affinity is too good. Unban Hypergenesis, Glimpse of Nature and Punishing Fire too.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:40
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Count Bleck posted:The fact that it required you to slow down because if you tried to goldfish you'd get counterspelled and die was fine, but the fact that it was also the same deck had match ups that are eot your turn 3 pestermite/Deceiver Exarch tap down your blue source turn 4 lol I win was dumb. And again, that almost never actually happened, and the match-ups where it did happen were the goldfishy ones where you had to combo them before they combo'd you. What deck in the format only had 1 blue mana on turn 3, could counter a Twin but not an Exarch, and couldn't otherwise kill the exarch without blue mana? How is that worse than turn 2 Goryo's on Griselbrand? Or attack you for 6 infect with Apostle's Blessing or Vines or Mutagenic Growth for protection? Or Ad Nauseam draw my deck and kill you? Like somehow people are ok with all the stupid things that are allowed to exist in the format now but tapping your land EOT was just too much! little munchkin posted:It was the part where it's never safe to tap out after turn 3. I agree that modern would be better if it was less linear, but forcing every deck in the format to be able to hold up instant speed interaction for the entirety of the game is not the way to do it. I mean if you watch some old videos of LSV and people playing against Twin this is pretty clearly not true but sure.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:42
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How off-the-rails would modern be if it just dropped the ban list? Is there a deck that would exist that's just too degenerate compared to the rest?
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Aug 26, 2016 17:44
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ThePeavstenator posted:How off-the-rails would modern be if it just dropped the ban list? Is there a deck that would exist that's just too degenerate compared to the rest? Eldrazi.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:45
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No banned list modern is unbelievably degenerate.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:46
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ThePeavstenator posted:How off-the-rails would modern be if it just dropped the ban list? Is there a deck that would exist that's just too degenerate compared to the rest? Storm with Rite of Flame, Seething Song, Ponder and Preordain is a horrifying site to behold. sarmhan posted:No banned list modern is unbelievably degenerate. Truth, Imagine Vintage without Force of Will, Daze, or a Shops deck. It is literally just goldfishing.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:47
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Blazing shoal infect, ungimped dredge/affinity and hypergenesis would all be scary
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Aug 26, 2016 17:47
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suicidesteve posted:And again, that almost never actually happened When you say things like this, it makes me believe that you do not know what you are talking about
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Aug 26, 2016 17:50
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Madmarker posted:Truth, Imagine Vintage without Force of Will, Daze, or a Shops deck. It is literally just goldfishing. Would making Daze modern legal for this hypothetical scenario help quell some of the degeneracy or would that just make everything have to be a blue degenerate combo?
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Aug 26, 2016 17:53
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I know there are a few places out there that do no-bans Modern events for fun, do any of them post deck lists? I want to see the broken poo poo instead of just imagining it.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:54
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C-Euro posted:I know there are a few places out there that do no-bans Modern events for fun, do any of them post deck lists? I want to see the broken poo poo instead of just imagining it. Mox Boarding House did one last year and did a full tournament report. http://www.moxboardinghouse.com/media/modern-no-banned-list/ Cactrot fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 18:00
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The problem with not having playables in the edh premades is that they always have them on accident anyways. TNN kept that one premade off the shelf and double the price for months. It's not really possible to prevent this without making the premades less desirable as a whole, but making all of them have a little value seems like a win-win ShaneB posted:I don't understand how having to build literally every deck around the question "but what about twin??" made it a better format. The idea he's presenting at least is that having a deck with a target on its back meant that you could walk into am event knowing that the majority of decks were either that deck or the decks with solid matchups against it. I don't play modern but I can understand the thought process that having a general plan to work with is a bit better than walking into a nearly open meta with no FoW as a backup plan
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Aug 26, 2016 18:08
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Cactrot posted:Mox Boarding House did one last year and did a full tournament report. My LGS has done a few of these and the results were pretty underwhelming. As noted in the article, fair decks won out. The winner of the first one was Burn splashing blue for Treasure Cruise. Edit: Ban Noble Heirarch.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:37
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I just won a ZZW match where both Games 1 and 2 played out identically. Turn 1, I play Hedron Crab. Opponent runs out of cards.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:53
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Modern!!!!! http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern-masters/engineered-explosives
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Aug 26, 2016 19:00
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Good thing I caved and bought them out at $10 each!
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Aug 26, 2016 19:01
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Have they said how the conspiracy cards are going to get distributed on mtgo? Finally looking through the spoiler and there are some interesting cards in it. I wonder how good Regicide will actually be.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:01
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little munchkin posted:They don't like doing this because all the modern/legacy players snap them up and then it's hard for actual edh players to get their hands on them. They could just print more sets. Too many people wanting to buy your product doesn't seem like a difficult problem.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:09
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hmmmmm
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Aug 26, 2016 19:12
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Angry Grimace posted:hmmmmm Does launch mean it's the buy-a-box promo?
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Aug 26, 2016 19:14
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suicidesteve posted:Does launch mean it's the buy-a-box promo?
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Aug 26, 2016 19:15
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Angry Grimace posted:hmmmmm Artifacts matter theme I guess.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:16
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Angry Grimace posted:hmmmmm Can't wait for a company to chide its customers again via their great PR conduit: Trick Jarrett.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:16
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mcmagic posted:Artifacts matter theme I guess. Why would you ever choose one and not both? if you didn't have the choice you wouldn't be able to cast it if you only have a creature, or an artifact
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Aug 26, 2016 19:18
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mcmagic posted:Artifacts matter theme I guess. Why would you ever choose one and not both? Because there isn't a legal target?
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Aug 26, 2016 19:19
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mandatory lesbian posted:if you didn't have the choice you wouldn't be able to cast it if you only have a creature, or an artifact I read it wrong. I guess you can make 2 copies of any artifact creature though.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:19
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ThePeavstenator posted:Can't wait for a company to chide its customers again via their great PR conduit: Trick Jarrett. it would be weird if wotc got upset that someone showed off part of the september wpn/fnm poster
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Aug 26, 2016 19:24
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Zoness posted:it would be weird if wotc got upset that someone showed off part of the september wpn/fnm poster well I'm an idiot  that's not a desk behind that carde: isn't this like 2 weeks early for spoilers tho? ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 19:25
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We were warned of this by several articles months in advance. And I DIDN'T LISTEN! 
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Aug 26, 2016 19:27
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Count Bleck posted:We were warned of this by several articles months in advance. Explosives is just one of those sideboard cards you should own at least 2 of if you play modern competitively at all.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:29
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ThePeavstenator posted:well I'm an idiot yeah but given that the prerelease is in september it makes sense to put the card on the poster for next month, like what they did with bident of thassa
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Aug 26, 2016 19:31
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