|
SlothfulCobra posted:At least private prisons might want to take care of prisoners so that they can provide slave labor. Nope: quote:“The fact of the matter is that private prisons don’t compare favorably to Bureau of Prisons facilities in terms of safety or security or services, and now with the decline in the federal prison population, we have both the opportunity and the responsibility to do something about that,” Yates said.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 23:24 |
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Privatization is where the government still funds something, but has no control or really responsibility for the operations of it. I don't know why they'd ever expect anything other than massive amounts of embezzlement of government funding. Yeah except that that also means that they have monetary incentive to encourage those prisoners to re-offend, so....
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
Agreed, capitalism is inherently flawed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 09:28
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Most places where the private sector outdoes the public ones are where there's monetary incentives. At least private prisons might want to take care of prisoners so that they can provide slave labor. Private prisons would give a poo poo if not taking care of their population resulted in diminished profits, for example through being fined for mistreatment or losing labor due to mistreatment in excess of what proper treatment would cost. It turns out you can use force to squeeze labor out of people even if they are horrible mistreated, a lesson I'm sure the US knows all about, so we're left with fines. This would require a government which gives gently caress one about prisoners and their treatment, and thus by extention a society that doesn't think prison rape is a hilarious joke and also an expected part of the sentence. Even in such a hypothetical society, prisons would then have an equal incentive to changing government regulatory pressure or the societal attitudes driving that pressure. If doing that would ever be perceived as cheaper than complying with the regulations requiring proper treatment, you bet your rear end market pressures will work on achieving regulatory capture or marketing prisoners as subhuman to the general population real quick. Raises some real questions about the ethics of market pressures. (the answer is socialism)
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
Don't get me wrong, I know the whole deal with why private prisons suck, but at least they will keep prisoners alive, if not healthy, and contained instead of running feral and unaccounted for, unlike some of these schools. The prisons accomplish their purpose. It's not like comparing them to slavery is a compliment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Privatization is where the government still funds something, but has no control or really responsibility for the operations of it. I don't know why they'd ever expect anything other than massive amounts of embezzlement of government funding. Haha have you been asleep or something? The D o J just cancelled all their private prisons contracts, it's gotten so loving bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:The prisons accomplish their purpose. That's highly dependent on your full definition of what a prison is supposed to accomplish. Regardless, there have been enough cases of kickbacks to judges to show for profit incarceration is a bad idea
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
The pattern of privatizations is pretty much standard across industries and the world: - Government starts providing a very popular service that isn't necessarily profitable - Privatization advocates start underfunding said service - Significant campaign against that publicly provided service because it either can't keep up with demand or is "losing" tax payer money. - Gets privatized and stops doing the unprofitable parts of the deal - But the unprofitable part is the popular part, so now the government starts subsidizing that part of things - Losses get socialized and profits privatized, and the private profit is used as evidence of the success of privatization, even though the public is now paying more and getting less. It's been like that for charter schools (public schools get saddled with all the unfunded mandates while losing funding or providing stuff for free for charters), and will likely be like that whenever they privatize USPS (because once they privatize it they will realize that daily delivery and post offices in rural areas and charging the same price to deliver to US bases abroad are very popular).
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
Racial Balkanization in jail and prison is bad enough. Anybody who has a wild weekend and ends up having to salute Hitler or fight for their lunch knows this. You don't have to experience surprise buttsecks in a state prison to figure it out. And you know, socialism isn't the get out solution to every problem, but I'll be damned if any program that directly cares for living people couldn't benefit from is touch. Capitalism is great for making consumer goods. Its really, really bad for making people smart (charter schools, ITT tech), healthy (chances are if my stomach hurts, I probably don't need an endoscopy, I probably need to eat more fiber), or safe (for profit prisons that rely on prisoners hating each other instead of guards). Like Bernie or not, he did help remove some of the stigma from the word socialism. It's a step in the right direction.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Anybody railing against socialism is a moron and probably old. Half the government programs they are enrolled in are socialist programs. Don't tell them that social security and Medicare are socialist programs they'll have an aneurism.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 21:49
|
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:Anybody railing against socialism is a moron and probably old. Half the government programs they are enrolled in are socialist programs. Don't tell them that social security and Medicare are socialist programs they'll have an aneurism. Man, I don't disagree with you, in fact, I'm probably just procrastinating all of the things I should be doing other than circlejerking in an echo chamber, but that same echoing bullshit happens all over: X population thinks Y is Z, I don't know enough to be opinionated about Y, but I keep hearing the "Y is Z" opinion so often that when the subject of Y is brought up, all I hear is X saying Z. Quick google search, and maybe I'm not just circlejerking and echoing: http://www.foothilltech.org/rgeib/english/media_literacy/basic_elements_of_propaganda.htm I'm assisting in the resonating of a more functional idea into collective memory... ... instead of doing my dishes and laundry. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:Anybody railing against socialism is a moron and probably old. Half the government programs they are enrolled in are socialist programs. Don't tell them that social security and Medicare are socialist programs they'll have an aneurism. It's like how all the people voting against the socialist secret muslim and his chosen successor all live in states where there wouldn't be roads, mail, electricity, phone lines etc without socialism.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
I just saw John Oliver's live standup show in DC. Holy gently caress if you have the chance to go, drop whatever you are doing and go. It is incredible. I've never laughed so hard in my life.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 05:02
|
|
|
axeil posted:I just saw John Oliver's live standup show in DC. I just flew in to DC and got excited until I looked it up and saw tonight was the last one here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 06:05
|
|
|
Would there happen to be somewhere to see this online yet? on youtube all the videos were taken down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 07:34
|
|
|
His old standup is p.funny. I can sit still for an hour to watch this maybe. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3f9sy4
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 08:01
|
|
|
The last time I saw Oliver do stand up, his routine still had that bit about reading Daily Show slashfics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 08:41
|
|
|
IRQ posted:It's like how all the people voting against the socialist secret muslim and his chosen successor all live in states where there wouldn't be roads, mail, electricity, phone lines etc without socialism. No you see, the invisible hand of the market...
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 09:41
|
|
|
I've noticed a lot of the "but liberals like charter schools too!" quotes are from like 20 years ago when there weren't any. My understanding is the original idea was sold as hey, private schools often do quite a bit better than public schools. Let's create this charter school idea that is basically a private school which kids who can't afford a private school can get into, so public school kids can get a private school education. Sounds great. Then they actually did it and it's a clusterfuck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Charter schools that act outside the norm and fill a niche in their community really are good. There are several arts-focused ones around me that do a conservatory-style education. Kids take their core classes in the morning so that after lunch and after school can be fully dedicated to playing in the orchestra/staging a musical/spending 5 hours in the studio painting/building sets for a play/etc. That just wouldn't be feasible in a regular public school, even with community interest. I believe that was the original intent, and it's just that "fill a niche in the community" is so vague that you can dump a bunch of stupid business jargon pretending that your get rich quick scheme is actually a paradigm shift in the development of young minds.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:21
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:My understanding is the original idea was sold as hey, private schools often do quite a bit better than public schools. Let's create this charter school idea that is basically a private school which kids who can't afford a private school can get into, so public school kids can get a private school education. Like, you could have a charter service low-income at risk students that was fashioned after an elite academy, provided monthly college visits, and had a slew of on-call support providers (psychologists, counselors) to deal with home and community issues. Or maybe a military school styled school for kids out of juvenile hall or with felons for parents. But then school vouchers were ruled to be not a thing and the right latched on to Charters as a way to defund public liberal socialist schools, break up union protections for educators, and stick their dicks in the education fund pile o money.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Eh, kind of. They were supposed to function more like incubators of innovation, where schools were given more leeway with curricular planning, staffing and scheduling. Officials would observe the results and then they would take successful elements out to the broader educational landscape.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
The amazing thing to me is the teflon around charter schools. Kevin Johnson and Michelle Rhee are neck deep in corruption charges and other shady deals and they somehow are still taken seriously by policy makers. Like, this is only part of the stuff that they are involved in: http://thebaffler.com/salvos/sacramento-shakedown Stuff that has been known since 08: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article38991375.html We are talking about their charter school stuff misusing half a million dollars among other things. Their charter schools are involved in a bunch of scams that have been extensively documented. And yet Rhee and her foundations still get called by people like Scott Walker and Rick Scott to handle their education policies, and Kevin Johnson was a rising star of the democratic party until sexual molestation charges appeared last year. The fact that the tests that Rhee claims to show the vast improvement under her policies have disappeared, or that they had to return $400,000 because their charter school misused the money, etc. never gained any traction. St Hope still gets a boatload of public money despite a long history of mismanagement and fraud.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
"Incubators of education" is just another friendly reminder that I want all Silicon Valley-style thinking purged from serious public policy proposals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:"Incubators of education" is just another friendly reminder that I want all Silicon Valley-style thinking purged from serious public policy proposals. Can't think of anything more tempting to right-wing and centrist lawmakers than figuring out how they can use that sweet, sweet Silicon Valley logic to magically make money and success pour out of the sky onto their home states.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:Can't think of anything more tempting to right-wing and centrist lawmakers than figuring out how they can use that sweet, sweet Silicon Valley logic to magically make money and success pour out of the sky onto their home states. Isn't it obvious that the money made there is due to new tech and not new organisation? What new organisation there is, is a response to the new tech.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Eh, kind of. They were supposed to function more like incubators of innovation, where schools were given more leeway with curricular planning, staffing and scheduling. Officials would observe the results and then they would take successful elements out to the broader educational landscape. This was the argument used when charter schools were introduced here (New Zealand) at the behest of a fringe "libertarian" (really a fairly economically hard right) party who prop up the government. Except it totally missed the fact that NZ public schools already have almost the same amount of leeway with curriculum, staffing and scheduling that US charter schools have. Predictably, it's been the exact type of clusterfuck everyone in the industry predicted with the same stories of corruption and money-grubbing the US experiences. Hell, the very same DAY this story aired, our Minister of Education announced she'd be allowing online charter schools. FFS.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:I've noticed a lot of the "but liberals like charter schools too!" quotes are from like 20 years ago when there weren't any. My understanding is the original idea was sold as hey, private schools often do quite a bit better than public schools. Let's create this charter school idea that is basically a private school which kids who can't afford a private school can get into, so public school kids can get a private school education. Sounds great. Then they actually did it and it's a clusterfuck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Liberals still do love their charter schools. At least those who say they are. Obama was featured in the segment for example. It kind of reminds me of the liberals who enjoy reading "The Economist" for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:00
|
|
|
No exclusive web content this week?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:13
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Liberals still do love their charter schools. At least those who say they are. Obama was featured in the segment for example. All the factors tilt the scale heavily to one side: - Lobbying money overwhelmingly in favor of charters, with very, very few localized exceptions - Ease of messaging ("giving parents choice" for charter schools, "parents most of the time are morons who know nothing of education and are prone to be fooled by scammers" against). - Allows democrats to look "serious" and moderate, brave enough to stand up to teacher unions. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Aug 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Liberals still do love their charter schools. At least those who say they are. Obama was featured in the segment for example. Fortunately, I do get the sense we're already in the liberal reaction phase of the whole education reform/charter school movement, where liberal politicians who previously supported third-way solutions to education realize it was at least a charade; and support in their base was never really high to begin with. "At least we're trying" isn't that helpful electorally when people realize the schools aren't better, and The Left has successfully created a narrative where  TEACHER'S UNIONS aren't the enemy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:No exclusive web content this week? It usually shows up after the episode would have ran, doesn't it?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
Also they don't actually do the web exclusives weekly when they are between seasons (which I believe they are) do they? I think they only do one or two during the breaks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:01
|
|
|
Last Week Tonight's Twitter says we're getting a web bit at 11.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
axeil posted:I just saw John Oliver's live standup show in DC. gently caress you buddy. It's been sold out for awhile. I wanted to go 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
END ME SCOOB posted:It usually shows up after the episode would have ran, doesn't it? Ah, it's already midday Monday here in Australia
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
joepinetree posted:All the factors tilt the scale heavily to one side:
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 04:28
|
|
|
It's kind of Okay I'm mad again. gently caress Chris Christie for literally yelling at teachers, and democrats like Cory Booker who helped enable the anti-teacher climate in New Jersey.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 07:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 23:24 |
|
|
Here's this week's web exclusive in case anyone missed it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzCgVltuzEk
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 08:47
|
|