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Yeah, pretty much every spirit we've seen so far would be an especially uncomfortable puberty companion.
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Aug 24, 2016 00:59
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Splicer posted:Or he's a teenager. Do none of you remember being a teenager. Apart from the "There's a ghost in my head" part, everything Isaac has said on this page is pure teenager.txt I remember wanting to fight and/or gently caress everything that moved in my line of sight but I definitely do not remember holding onto my grudges indefinitely that poo poo shouldn't kick in until you're 40 or so
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Aug 24, 2016 01:36
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teenager hurt by spectral child 21st century schizoid weeb
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Aug 24, 2016 01:52
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wokow6 posted:Do you guys think Isaac's problem has been somehow enhanced by his spirit? Cause from what we know, a tool and a medium starts taking on physical aspects of the spirit. What if mediums start taking on some personality aspects of the spirit?
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Aug 24, 2016 02:16
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heenato posted:They take on the physical aspect at the very least. I remember exposition way back when that Isaac's hair wasn't always so anime, and that it's a result of him being possessed.
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Aug 24, 2016 13:06
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New page up: http://www.paranatural.net/comic/chapter-5-page-141 "New scene next time", so we wont know how this pans out for a while I guess
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Aug 26, 2016 01:12
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pik_d posted:we wont know how this pans out for a while I guess
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Aug 28, 2016 08:00
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God help me, I agree with Bravest. FFS how long has this chapter been so far?
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Aug 28, 2016 11:34
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Aug 28, 2016 14:23
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Zach's been taking a lot of breaks recently, it feels, so it's even slower now. I'm reminded of gigi talking about CQ, saying she's simplifying a lot of stuff to get it done and that maybe just maybe it's not super smart to y'know make a loving massive thing your first webcomic project.
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Aug 28, 2016 14:26
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I love this comic, but drat does Zach need to work on the pacing. The constant scene switching right as things are about to go somewhere just makes it feel like there's never any resolution, and when it does come-- even on a reread-- it's been so long it loses its impact.
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Aug 28, 2016 14:46
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I agree. It clearly wasn't his intention, since he said something along the lines of "yeah the ghost train is probably going to be the longest chapter". The shortcut chapter was very fun and well paced! It pretty much just followed max and Isaac the whole way to school. Since then, the action has gotten very fragmented and more drawn out.
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Aug 28, 2016 15:44
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Zack could probably use a real-rear end editor who can question what's really necessary to the story and keep him on a tighter schedule. The first page of chapter 5 was 20 months ago, at this rate we'll be on chapter 8 or 9 by 2020, if that.Fecha posted:I agree. It clearly wasn't his intention, since he said something along the lines of "yeah the ghost train is probably going to be the longest chapter". The shortcut chapter was very fun and well paced! It pretty much just followed max and Isaac the whole way to school. Since then, the action has gotten very fragmented and more drawn out. It seems like Zack is having problems telling one story at a time, like with the mid-chapter jump to Dr. Zarei. He's mentioned writer's block slowing him down before, maybe jumping between plots is what's helping him keep going.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:48
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It's a pacing trick that shows up in TV a lot (main example that springs to mind is CSI and everything that ever aped its format) to maintain tension by having at least two running plotlines and flipping between them every few minutes. Obviously this works much less well when you're doing the equivalent of watching roughly 30 seconds every three or four days. Regardless of how well it comes out in archives, I do agree he should probably look at forcing himself to go back to shorter more concise chapters. On the bright side he does seem like the type who could actually learn that lesson, though we will have to finish this one off first.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:08
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Renaissance Robot posted:It's a pacing trick that shows up in TV a lot (main example that springs to mind is CSI and everything that ever aped its format) to maintain tension by having at least two running plotlines and flipping between them every few minutes. At this point we're jumping between four or five running plotlines, though. (the four main kiddos + zarei, maybe?) Two might be manageable in webcomic format, three plus is pushing it in any medium.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:11
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PhysicsFrenzy posted:At this point we're jumping between four or five running plotlines, though. (the four main kiddos + zarei, maybe?) Two might be manageable in webcomic format, three plus is pushing it in any medium. I wouldn't say any medium. In this it's rough going because webcomics are so spaced out to begin with, yeah, but Seinfeld usually went with the "four simultaneously running plotlines that all combine at the end of the episode" format, for example.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:17
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And who can forget George "RailRoad" Martin and his 30 viewpoint chapter books.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:32
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We were trapped in a single gym class for four months.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:35
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i will wait for the ghost comic, and enjoy updates
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Aug 28, 2016 23:36
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Idran posted:I wouldn't say any medium. In this it's rough going because webcomics are so spaced out to begin with, yeah, but Seinfeld usually went with the "four simultaneously running plotlines that all combine at the end of the episode" format, for example. Fair enough. Most shows go for A plot/B plot though, and also are not as good as Seinfeld.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:43
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oddium posted:i will wait for the ghost comic, and enjoy updates Me too. I don't know why people expect a free webcomic to be as well paced and edited as a professional production like a TV show. It's not like Zach is swimming in money to afford an editor.
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Aug 29, 2016 00:45
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I don't know why suddenly not paying for something somehow makes it immune to criticism?
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Aug 29, 2016 01:50
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Rohan Kishibe posted:I don't know why suddenly not paying for something somehow makes it immune to criticism? That's not what he said, he said the fact is a work by an amateur with no support means some stuff isn't gonna be up to snuff when compared to professional comics/manga. His output is what, 8 pages a month, and the dude struggles to keep it up at times too. A serial story told in 8 pages a month is gonna have pacing issues regardless, I feel.
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Aug 29, 2016 01:58
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"You shouldn't complain about the thing, it's free" is a faulty argument, because it fails to take into account that in this day and age, being a free webcomic is not in the least bit remarkable. "You don't have to pay for this thing." True, but I also don't have to read it, either. I am choosing to spend my time here, losing time I could instead be using to, say, catch up on Monster Pulse. "It's free, so keep your expectations realistic" is a similar but much better argument that I rarely see. Edit for clarity: And I think that's what's being said here. Also, it's constructive criticism, on an internet comedy site's forums, that Zack will probably never read. You don't have to defend his feelings. 
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Aug 29, 2016 02:00
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Rohan Kishibe posted:I don't know why suddenly not paying for something somehow makes it immune to criticism? Criticism should be reasonable to the context of what's being criticized.
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Aug 29, 2016 03:01
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PhysicsFrenzy posted:At this point we're jumping between four or five running plotlines, though. (the four main kiddos + zarei, maybe?) Two might be manageable in webcomic format, three plus is pushing it in any medium. Have you ever read the wheel of time? Don't. Just imagine what's going on here except sometimes the focus on one plotline lasts for most of a doorstopper of a book and still doesn't reach a satisfactory jumping off point by the end. And you have to wait years between installments. Then imagine that after over a dozen books the last one wraps everything up super quickly by murdering a bunch of the more troublesome characters with little fanfare. In conclusion, I hope Zack doesn't die leaving Paranatural to be finished by someone else. That would suck.
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Aug 29, 2016 05:29
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Who What Now posted:Me too. I don't know why people expect a free webcomic to be as well paced and edited as a professional production like a TV show. It's not like Zach is swimming in money to afford an editor. I don't see how "Hey, maybe you should work on your pacing" is some kind of extremely unreasonable demand, especially when there are actual examples in the archives of chapters which were paced way better.
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Aug 29, 2016 07:14
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asking someone to tweak their pacing isn't unreasonable, asking someone to hire on an editor to their passion project webcomic is. That said this probably would have been better received as two chapters with more of a clean break between hitball and stalking the teachers. That it's all somehow the same big chapter makes what's already a sprawling arc look even worse. EDIT: to clarify I think the pacing on this tiny little chunk is actually okay! As long as we stay with these 4 stories, jumping between them in quick bursts isn't that bad a storytelling technique, if a little slow to satisfy due to delays. if it starts flashing to Zarei and Doorman and Suzy and whoever else again that's when it it'll crumble real quick. Maduo fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 07:51
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Poison Mushroom posted:
Placing constructive criticism where the creator can't read it does not seem constructive. I mean how are you intending it to help him improve? Sounds like just standard criticism...
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Aug 29, 2016 08:51
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Who What Now posted:Me too. I don't know why people expect a free webcomic to be as well paced and edited as a professional production like a TV show. It's not like Zach is swimming in money to afford an editor. Commenting on what isn't working in a comic in a forum for discussing that comic isn't a weird thing to do.
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Aug 29, 2016 12:07
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Since this seems to be the post that started this whole mess let me clarify:Kabanaw posted:Zack could probably use a real-rear end editor who can question what's really necessary to the story and keep him on a tighter schedule. The first page of chapter 5 was 20 months ago, at this rate we'll be on chapter 8 or 9 by 2020, if that. This isn't me saying Zack should literally go out and hire an editor, I'm just saying he could use one. Most writers could, but Zack in particular seems to have trouble keeping his story concise. It's not a particularly constructive criticism, sure, but then again I'm not expecting Zack to ever read this.
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Aug 29, 2016 12:59
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i don't care how short or long a comic is or how quickly it updates as long as it's good. and let me tell you. paranatural is good
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Aug 29, 2016 13:01
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Aw man, here comes my hot take, you better get a bucket of cold water and a fire extinguisher ready for this!!!!!! I think this'll read fine, when it's completed. Good/decent stories can be horribly marred by their pacing. Imagine if Harry Potter came out but only two pages every three weeks. Anyone re-read hitball or the train part lately and think it still drags on?
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Aug 29, 2016 13:04
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RareAcumen posted:Aw man, here comes my hot take, you better get a bucket of cold water and a fire extinguisher ready for this!!!!!! I was going to say this - I'm pretty sure that when read serially, it'll feel fine, pacewise. I wonder how long people can keep giving the same "constructive criticism" about webcomics.
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Aug 29, 2016 13:19
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RareAcumen posted:I think this'll read fine, when it's completed. Good/decent stories can be horribly marred by their pacing. Imagine if Harry Potter came out but only two pages every three weeks. That would have been terrible because each book was written to be experienced as a book, if it were released as a series of pages or chapters it'd have been written differently. Paranatural works because it has a zillion gags on every page, which keeps it entertaining page-to-page. That hasn't stopped the chapter's plot from dragging on pretty badly.
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Aug 29, 2016 13:45
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Maduo posted:asking someone to tweak their pacing isn't unreasonable, asking someone to hire on an editor to their passion project webcomic is. I read this and was really confused for a bit, then realized that I'd forgotten that Hitball was still part of this chapter. 
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Aug 29, 2016 18:24
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I know! I almost had to double check to make sure.RareAcumen posted:Anyone re-read hitball or the train part lately and think it still drags on?
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Aug 29, 2016 20:48
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I reread the hitball stuff recently and it's actually not much of an issue on rereads. It's just that sports anime would translate horribly if read at the rate of 2 pages per week. I think overall Paranatural is actually one of the best webcomics re: this issue! Zack works hard to fill every page with entertaining content and background details / gags to enjoy. Sometimes his scenes last longer than they need to, an issue I can relate to as a writer. For example, I think the recent scene between Spender and Isabel could probably have been a few pages shorter.
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Aug 30, 2016 05:25
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Update! Let's slow this down with a new plot.
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Aug 30, 2016 07:00
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Even so, I missed those two.
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Aug 30, 2016 08:53
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