Wrestling Podcasts + F4W/OBSERVER - Howsitgoingeverybodybryanalvarezhere...

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Roque11: Aug 7, 2016

Del Rio has to work on getting Paige her release cause he needs something to help himself look relevent in his return to the indies. Him going alone won't have the same impact given how much his stock has dropped with his recent WWE run. I have to wonder why companies want to even bother with using Del Rio. I guess they are desperate to get anybody from WWE television. He has proven time and time again that he's a huge pain to deal with. Look at how things played out with his two WWE runs and then with how he split from AAA and LU, along with no showing or canceling indy bookings.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 10:58

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# ? May 25, 2024 23:08

rovert: Jun 10, 2013

Roque11 posted:

Del Rio has to work on getting Paige her release cause he needs something to help himself look relevent in his return to the indies.

Being hosed over in the US was his appeal in Mexico 2-3 years ago. So he likely wants to pursue that again.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 11:11

Cardboard Box: Jul 14, 2009

"there's probably a lot of photos of me, i took like a million pictures this weekend. i mean, y'know, that's probably an exaggerated number,"

# ? Sep 5, 2016 12:59

ch3cooh: Jun 26, 2006

Dave "Better Abs Than Johnny Mundo" Meltzer

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:06

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

loving the "Meltzer is loving ripped" chat on WOR

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:10

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

AMReese posted:

Bryan rants at me after I piss him off with a post I made on the F4W Board in a thread about the B&V Show on Thursday.

What in God's name does Twitter have to do with anything? Are you confusing me with Dave?

This is 100% "participation medal" and it's not bullshit.

This "Attitude Era" stuff that the other guy was talking about, in the Attitude Era there were 12 million people watching wrestling at times on Monday nights. If you go back further to when there were local territorial television shows, there were many more millions of people watching wrestling every week all over the world. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS.

Now, WWE gets a little over 3 million for their A show on Monday night, and starting in a few weeks, it's going to fall below 3 million many weeks. All we have left are very, very hardcore fans, and these fans watch wrestling differently than fans watched in any other era, and if you cannot understand that, you're the one in the echo chamber.

When wrestling was at its hottest it was a faux sport. I'm not saying people BELIEVED IT WAS REAL but they could pretend it was real, and they responded at live events like it was a sport. They cheered for heroes and booed villains and respected the World Title as the ultimate prize and got caught up in a character's journey to win it.

Today, this is not a fake sporting event where the audience reacts like they are at a sporting event. It's a TELEVISION SHOW FILMED BEFORE A LIVE STUDIO AUDIENCE. These fans don't give a poo poo about the title, they don't give a poo poo about the journey, they don't give a poo poo about anything except guys they decide they like because they're talented or funny or they paid their dues in ROH or Japan whatever. So this group of people, who are very hardcore because if you're not very hardcore you aren't loving watching wrestling in 2016, go to events and they respond like they are at a television awards show. This guy we like -- DESPITE BEING ONE OF THE TOP loving HEELS -- DESERVES this title and thus we shall applaud the decision to give him this award and let him know he deserves it. This other guy, he won the Oscar when that other guy deserved it, so we shall BOO THE poo poo OUT OF HIM and let the company know we DISLIKE WHO THEY CHOSE and we shall never let them forget it.

What's funny is WWE gets so mad that their audience reacts certain ways, but it's ALL THEIR FAULT because they have created this weird sports entertainment variety show product that has run off actual wrestling fans in droves, and the only ones left are the ones who respond THE WAY YOU'D EXPECT THEM TO with a product designed to be a goofy TV variety show, yet WWE wants them to respond like it's PRO WRESTLING which it is not anymore.

So yes, this is a PARTICIPATION MEDAL situation. And to the guy who wrote, "Wrestling used to be like that, people getting awarded titles and championship runs because of entitlement, looks, connections, etc. without ever working hard to earn it", that is so absolutely not the case. Yes, maybe in WWE post-2000/post-HHH, but prior to that, it was either whether you were a real shooter to protect the title (a long time ago, when the title meant so much that the idea it could be STOLEN by a guy in a match was the ultimate fear), or because the guy either DREW MONEY or the promoter THOUGHT you could draw money. There was a time when companies weren't publicly traded and didn't have billions and billions of dollars or were owned by media companies or energy companies, and back then the only way to survive was to MAKE MONEY, and in that era, back when WAY more people were watching than are watching today, the champion was NEVER awarded a title due to entitlement, looks or connections, unless it was for a VERY brief period of time. The champion had to be the best man for the job.

tl;dr: Why can't wrestling be like what it was before? drat millennials.
[/quote]

Greatest self own in history.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:10

rovert: Jun 10, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMapsmMbfiY

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:28

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

rovert posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMapsmMbfiY

Obviously with Raw 3 hours instead of 2, Dave is lifting 50% more than usual, and it's finally paying off.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:33

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

How can he lift and also operate his stopwatch for all the matches?

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:37

Skinty McEdger: Mar 9, 2008; I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

St Evan Echoes posted:

How can he lift and also operate his stopwatch for all the matches?

Big Dave measures time in reps, which he then translates back to our earth minutes.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:41

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

I still don't get how it's the fans fault for reacting that way, especially when stuff like the Revival's entire run or the Miz thing from last week or the Triple H/Daniel Bryan feud make it clear that good booking can overcome that and get fans to respond to the narrative. Plus it's extremely ironic when Bryan laughs his rear end off at some mid-80s NWA heel like Paul Jones.

And bottom-line is, those same hardcore fans are Bryan's customer base. Cutting a heel promo on your customers is probably not a smart idea even if you do believe in what you say. (Cue someone telling me I'm a mark and it'll drive engagement up_

# ? Sep 5, 2016 14:49

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

I don't understand what represents the participation medal? Is it The WWE Universal Title belt? Or the receipt of a You Deserve It chant? Or the fans are getting a participation medal in the form of a person they like having the belt?

I am so confused

# ? Sep 5, 2016 15:14

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

Or is it just Bryan being "I don't like thing. MILLENNIALS :bahgawd:

# ? Sep 5, 2016 15:17

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

St Evan Echoes posted:

I don't understand what represents the participation medal? Is it The WWE Universal Title belt? Or the receipt of a You Deserve It chant? Or the fans are getting a participation medal in the form of a person they like having the belt?

I am so confused

The fans want the person they think is The Best to get The Belt, and because they're happy even when the storyline is that the person cheated or doesn't deserve said belt, they must only want that person to get a medal for participating or something.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 15:17

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

Gaz-L posted:

And bottom-line is, those same hardcore fans are Bryan's customer base. Cutting a heel promo on your customers is probably not a smart idea even if you do believe in what you say. (Cue someone telling me I'm a mark and it'll drive engagement up_

I'll call you a mark because Dave and Bryan have said multiple times they want wrestling to be bigger and attract a larger non-hardcore audience because then they will get more people anyway. See: boat, gold.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 15:54

Marquis de Pyro: Sep 25, 2006; Evil Prevails

I mostly agree with Alvarez, but he's being pretty intentionally obtuse if he thinks poo poo wasn't always like that to a large extent. Plenty of fans cheered The Rock when he was a heel and didn't give a drat if he murdered Mick Foley or cheated all the time to win the title, because he's the guy they liked. The nWo were practically faces a lot of the time regardless of trash throwing shenanigans. (Obviously, they booked themselves like faces anyway)

The fans have always cheered for 'who they like' rather than 'the good guy' unless you go back to the 1980s or maybe earlier than that. The only difference now is that the wrestling audience HAS declined to the hardcores so instead of the people getting cheered no matter what being 'the cool guys' it's 'the good wrestlers'

Another key difference is that back then when the fans turned on someone WWE would usually get rid of them or change their gimmick or do something, now they just embrace the backlash, which certainly leads to more fans being willing to cheer anything that doesn't involve Roman Reigns winning the title. I suspect if you replaced Reigns in that situation with someone the fans actually liked/gave a poo poo about, the reaction to the finish wouldn't have been 100% positive.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:02

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

GoutPatrol posted:

I'll call you a mark because Dave and Bryan have said multiple times they want wrestling to be bigger and attract a larger non-hardcore audience because then they will get more people anyway. See: boat, gold.

Yes, but Dave doesn't cut a "You people..." promo on his readers to make that point.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:04

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Gaz-L posted:

Yes, but Dave doesn't cut a "You people..." promo on his readers to make that point.

Dave's gimmick is that he rarely gets worked up about anything. Even when he's really passionate about something he's never yelling and shouting. Dude is super chill.

Alvarez is the excitable, overly emotive one, to the point that he screams and flips out over poo poo that doesn't even matter that much. That's his gimmick except that you can tell it frequently gets under his skin and legitimately pisses him off.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:20

ICHIBAHN: Feb 21, 2007; by Cyrano4747

One's a worker one's a mark

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:41

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Bryan has made the same posts for a decade and does the same stuff on shows occasionally. Seems to not hurt his business.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:49

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

WWE shouldn't even have to control their wrestlers on social media, since it's pretty much in their best interest as draws to protect their characters

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:51

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

Dave has better abs than Johnny Mundo! :pusheen:

# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:59

Basic Chunnel: Sep 21, 2010; Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

Alain Post posted:

WWE shouldn't even have to control their wrestlers on social media, since it's pretty much in their best interest as draws to protect their characters

Is it? The only notable guy I can think of in wrestling who's always in character is Matt Hardy and if he's a draw I'd say it's less about his commitment to the character and more to the camp factor of the videos he produces. A large part of the Bucks' gimmick is exposing the business and they're excellent draws.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 17:09

Good Listener: Sep 2, 2006; Ask me about moons
Fact #1 The Moon is really cool

St Evan Echoes posted:

I don't understand what represents the participation medal? Is it The WWE Universal Title belt? Or the receipt of a You Deserve It chant? Or the fans are getting a participation medal in the form of a person they like having the belt?

I am so confused

I am guessing the participation medal he means is the title in this case? It seems like the main thing he was mad about was that basically Owens only got it because Triple H took out Reigns and Rollins for him. Thus when the fans chant he deserved it, it immediately sticks out as 'No. no you don't because you just showed up to the match essentially and didn't beat either guy on your own".

That's my guess anyway! :shrug:

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:02

Skinty McEdger: Mar 9, 2008; I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The bucks appeal in part came from them being the only ones who were doing the too cool for school stuff.

When everyone is doing the same thing then the whole thing becomes devalued.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:02

handsome only face: Apr 22, 2010; Cockroach went out of the room in anger. And roach's go to empty room...

Cockroache's Anarchist

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:11

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

next bola i'm taking a Dominate Me Dave sign

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:12

BlueArmyMan: Mar 30, 2007; Hooloovoo

ICHIBAHN posted:

One's a worker one's a mark

How dare you call Bryan "Chico" Alvarez a lowly mark

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:27

AMReese: Jan 31, 2011; I'm driving with my mind!

Especially when he went on a rant about how the voters for the Observer Awards were a bunch of marks for voting Paul Jones the Worst Manager of the Year in 1986.

A mark calling other people marks? Impossible.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:29

Arbite: Nov 4, 2009

PaybackJack posted:

Dave's gimmick is that he rarely gets worked up about anything. Even when he's really passionate about something he's never yelling and shouting. Dude is super chill.

Makes the time he got choked up about how TNA's awful bookers "hosed the company" all the more remarkable.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:33

Basic Chunnel: Sep 21, 2010; Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

Skinty McEdger posted:

The bucks appeal in part came from them being the only ones who were doing the too cool for school stuff.

When everyone is doing the same thing then the whole thing becomes devalued.

Every indie wrestler is the same way on twitter. Most if not all indie feds have replaced the appeal of kayfabe with a card game strategy aspect of which guys are going to be booked in what way for which reason and what's going to be played next. Kayfabe is dead, it's spent, there's no more blood to come from that stone. If people don't buy into story-heavy product it's not because kayfabe's not being sold hard enough, it's because the booking's not exciting. Miz's anti-Bryan Dianelson character is as airtight a kayfabe thing as WWE has done in a long time but it's not really helping him even so.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:35

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

Arbite posted:

Makes the time he got choked up about how TNA's awful bookers "hosed the company" all the more remarkable.

He got super loving mad about the Reid Fleihr thing last year

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:43

Roque11: Aug 7, 2016

rovert posted:

Being hosed over in the US was his appeal in Mexico 2-3 years ago. So he likely wants to pursue that again.

He just can't get over without doing the I've been screwed over routine. He has to use Paige to get this schtick over again since he had a failed WWE return and he looked like a sellout hypocrite returning to WWE after all that he had said about them. Of course, in a year or so we'll hear about how he's stirring up drama backstage with the offices of AAA, LU, Combate Americas or wherever else he works.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 18:53

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Del Rio is too young for AAA and LU.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 19:04

Spermgod: Jan 8, 2012; pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..

AMReese posted:

Especially when he went on a rant about how the voters for the Observer Awards were a bunch of marks for voting Paul Jones the Worst Manager of the Year in 1986.

A mark calling other people marks? Impossible.

he was joking

# ? Sep 5, 2016 20:40

AMReese: Jan 31, 2011; I'm driving with my mind!

Spermgod posted:

he was joking

No. No he was not.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 20:48

Spermgod: Jan 8, 2012; pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..

youre really stupid lol and i'm the last person who wants to give Bryan credit for anything

# ? Sep 5, 2016 20:56

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

A bad week for Reese

But a good week for

# ? Sep 5, 2016 20:56

AMReese: Jan 31, 2011; I'm driving with my mind!

Spermgod posted:

youre really stupid lol and i'm the last person who wants to give Bryan credit for anything

I don't believe for one moment he was joking. Go ahead and call me whatever you want, but that won't change my mind.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 21:22

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# ? May 25, 2024 23:08

yea ok: Jul 27, 2006

AMReese posted:

Go ahead and call me whatever you want

poo poo stinky gently caress face.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 21:25

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