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Overwatch drags Overwatch down. I don't get it. Also Mei.
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Sep 6, 2016 08:10
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For all my friends, one of the things bringing down Overwatch is Symmetra being an overpowered deathdoor-producing monster. For me, the thing dragging Overwatch down is that my favorite hero, Symmetra, is objectively underpowered and haphazardly-designed. Settling this kind of debate is impossible.
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Sep 6, 2016 08:25
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I don't know if I'm missing something but holy gently caress the Shaelmaar fight in Witcher 3 is loving awful. Attack that hits multiple times and can knock of easily half my health if it hits the first time? Great! Can't actually dodge it because the hitbox is larger than the actual boss and my dodge move just doesn't move me far enough? Awesome! Boss is mostly unable to be damaged? Always fun. Quen doesn't actually stop the knockback effect so even if I have it up it saves me one hit, then I die anyway. It's a pity because everything else has been fun as gently caress. I figured I was supposed to use Aard when it rolled, don't know if it does anything because the sign didn't come out fast enough to stop the thing hitting me.
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Sep 6, 2016 09:08
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It's actually a trivial fight, but only if you read the Bestiary entry. Stand still and throw a Samun bomb at a distant wall. It'll charge the sound and knock itself down, letting you get some nasty hits in. Repeat until dead.
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Sep 6, 2016 10:34
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The Lone Badger posted:It's actually a trivial fight, but only if you read the Bestiary entry. I did, but I'm pretty sure I only have two and I don't think it's enough to carry me through the boss fight.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:13
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Geirskogul posted:Overwatch drags Overwatch down. I don't get it. God dammit I hate that robot
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Sep 6, 2016 11:33
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Gitro posted:I did, but I'm pretty sure I only have two and I don't think it's enough to carry me through the boss fight. You should have Superior by now which is 4 charges. If not try other bombs? Grapeshot ought to work too I would have thought.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:06
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CJacobs posted:The response from the community to such a complaint drags it down even further. Because then the question becomes "why did you get in range/let yourself get hit by it" and a run down of the list of ways to juke the stun move of x character, when the people making such an argument already know drat well this crap doesn't happen in a vacuum. But even if it did, stun moves are bad and shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Don't ever make a complaint about stuff like that because it's always you being bad, not the game. Heaven forbid you express that parrying and riposting being a near instant kill in Dark Souls is maybe not a great system.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:57
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you think it's unfun to get uncontrollably stunned + instakilled from a single character's 6 second cooldown ability? why did you exist anywhere in his field of view within 15 meters of him then? Not the game's fault. 
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Sep 6, 2016 14:01
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Since we're on Overwatch: I like playing Pharah, and according to my stats I'm pretty good with her (the only other character I've played a significant amount of time as that has a higher win percentage is Ana,) but MAN, does her Ultimate kind of suck. Sure, it can do poo poo-tons of damage and maybe get a Team Kill if they're all on the point huddled together...but it'll never happen because you'll get to "Justice Rains-" snipped dead. I don't know of any other character's Ultimate that leaves them so vulnerable. Maybe Reaper's, but at least he gets to move around a little bit while being 2Edgy4U. Whereas by contrast, D.Va's Ultimate is completely unstoppable, which is pure BS. All the other Ults that are capable of doing a large amount of damage in a small area (like Junk Rat, Reap[er, or Pharah) are can be interrupted. You can kill Reaper or Pharah (very easily, as said) at the start of their attack, or destroy Junk Rat's Rip Tire before he triggers it...but not D.Va. Once you hear "Nerf this!" your only hope is to run. It would be nice if it was possible to destroy the mech before it blows up. DrBouvenstein has a new favorite as of 14:50 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 14:42
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And the best part is that the trajectory of the exploding bot is propelled by her boosters, so on a number of maps you can have a big instant death explosion drop straight on your head because a Dva hopped it over a wall from complete safety. Overwatch has tons and tons of "gently caress you for being here now you are dead" crap clogging up the fun factor and it's a shame imo.
CJacobs has a new favorite as of 14:50 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 14:48
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Cleretic posted:For all my friends, one of the things bringing down Overwatch is Symmetra being an overpowered deathdoor-producing monster. Could it be that your friends play on console, while you're on PC? IIRC, turrets tend to do much better on consoles, since their autoaim is relatively more powerful and it takes a longer time for players to take them out. For the same reason Torbjörn used to be incredibly powerful on consoles (until they nerfed his turret's damage by like 30%) while he's always been a pretty situational gimmick on PC. Edit: DrBouvenstein posted:Since we're on Overwatch: There are a few possible counters to D.Va's ult, though they are pretty situational. Reinhardt's shield can block it, as can Zarya's (her shields can actually block unlimited amounts of damage, as long as it comes from a single attack), and Mei's wall does as well. Worst case a Reinhardt or Roadhog can also sacrifice himself and push/pull it out of the way. As for Phara's ult, the best use I've found is to use it at very short ranges against targets of opportunity. It's tempting to wait until you can bombard the entire team for a potential wipe, but often just sneaking around and wasting two or maybe three enemies with it (ideally including a Mercy, if they have one) will have just the same effect, since your team can just easily mop up whoever's left standing through weight of numbers. Perestroika has a new favorite as of 15:02 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 14:53
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Pharah's ultimate should just be an instant suicide button to save me the trouble of shooting at her for two seconds.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:09
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My problem with Overwatch is that Mei exists. I hate her more than anything else in that game.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:23
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DrBouvenstein posted:Since we're on Overwatch: Pharah is interesting, because her ult almost requires teamwork to be reliably effective, which isn't the case for any other Offence hero. Unless you're really good at catching the opposition off-guard, you're going to be killed unless you have Mercy or Zarya backing you up (or Reinhardt, but that means deploying close to the ground, which is risky as hell). Also, D.Va's ult can be countered by walls or buffs. Mei's ice wall will save a team, and Reinhardt's shield might as well (haven't tried it, tho). I've used Lucio's sound barrier to prevent a wipe, and he might even be able to alt-fire the mech off a ledge (also haven't tried this). Actually, do we know that the self-destructing mech can't be destroyed? I don't even attempt to kill the mech, because I'm either trying not to die, or setting up counter-measures.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:40
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Reinhardt's shield and Mei's ice wall do block the explosion. But "have one of these two characters on your team and you can beat it" does not make it good or well-balanced. Just giving things hard counters and calling it a day is not enough, especially when player skill and team compositon varies so wildly between matches, something Blizzard has failed to understand for decades across many video games.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:06
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The mech explosion is defeated in pretty much the same way as the Ark of the Covenant: be behind a slim pole and don't look at it. (IIRC they were going to change the 'small pole' bit but I haven't played in a while) but every map is covered in LOS breaks so if you can't find something to get behind within ~3 sec then the ult will kill you. Most ults will kill you, that's just how it goes. Most of your ults will kill people too! That's the game. It's not Dark Souls where you can play perfectly and never die; in fact most characters are significantly more durable than other FPS like Battlefield, COD or Counterstrike where anyone with a bullet can kill you instantly with no warning.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:41
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"that's just how it goes" is a terrible design philosophy.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:42
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DrBouvenstein posted:Since we're on Overwatch: Pharah's ult only really clicked for me when I stopped trying to get spectacular Team Kills with it and started trying to use it as a surprise source of burst damage. Everyone's getting stuck into a big team fight? Pop a quick Barrage to take out Lucio and one of their dps, shift the fight in your favour. Got the drop on a couple of people trickling back to the fight? Blow them out of the way so your team can keep pushing. If you're consistently landing hits with Pharah, her ult will charge really quickly, so you're nearly always better off using it than waiting for the perfect quad-kill and getting sniped. The other thing I found that helped, ironically, was not using it from way above the enemies like it was probably intended to be used, but from much closer to ground level, preferably from their flank. Using it straight after a boost jump makes you an obvious static target and you lose a lot of killing power to the rockets' travel time and spread. DVa's ult is probably the most heavily telegraphed attack in the game and is really vulnerable to line-of-sight fuckery. Unlike the rip-tire, once it's been launched its trajectory can't be altered, so once you're out of the way you know you're safe. The only thing that feels off about it to me is the fact that DVa gets the mech back regardless of whether it hits anybody or not, so there's no downside to using it and missing. Digirat posted:you think it's unfun to get uncontrollably stunned + instakilled from a single character's 6 second cooldown ability? why did you exist anywhere in his field of view within 15 meters of him then? Not the game's fault. The prevalence and importance of stuns in Overwatch is even more aggravating given that Blizzard figured out way back in vanilla WoW that people hate losing control of their character and nerfed the hell out of crowd control in PvP, to much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the time. I haven't played WoW since WotLK, so I've got no idea if they stuck with that, though.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:48
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Gato posted:DVa's ult is probably the most heavily telegraphed attack in the game and is really vulnerable to line-of-sight fuckery. Unlike the rip-tire, once it's been launched its trajectory can't be altered, so once you're out of the way you know you're safe. The only thing that feels off about it to me is the fact that DVa gets the mech back regardless of whether it hits anybody or not, so there's no downside to using it and missing. Yeah, literally anything that breaks line of sight with stop D.Va's ult from hurting you. I've avoided it by ducking behind the payload before. There are situations where its a game changer, but of course that can be said of pretty much all the ult abilities. Theres no downside of using ANY of the ults and missing, other than having to rebuild your meter, so I'm fine with it on that count too.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:46
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Even if you don't get any kills with the D. Va ult you can probably scare some players off a point.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:50
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Pingiivi posted:Even if you don't get any kills with the D. Va ult you can probably scare some players off a point.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:22
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Stuntman posted:Roadhog can also do this with his ult. Pharah can also do this with her conc blast. McCree can also do this with his ult (forcing people to scramble for cover off the point.) Mei can also do this with her ult. When the game first came out a lot of ults were ways to get multi kills in a hurry, but as people learned how everything work, several of them have become about area denial and breaking up groups rather than killing directly. My Overwatch complaint is that I picked the game up very quickly and was very dominant at playing for the first couple weeks, but everyone else has gotten better while I've stayed still and now I am adequate at best 
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Sep 6, 2016 18:34
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Uh Mei's the best character and my main character, sorry for freezing all your butts thank you in advance. *shoots off on a slide of snow, Iceman-style*
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Sep 6, 2016 19:33
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Morpheus posted:Uh Mei's the best character and my main character, sorry for freezing all your butts thank you in advance. we know she's the best character, that is the problem
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Sep 6, 2016 19:46
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I have never been more frustrated playing against a decent Mei. I have also not had more fun since I understood how to play Mei. It's an incredible rush when you successfully get around behind the enemy group and then start to split them up and pick them off. It's like some Predator poo poo, man.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:09
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See the problem with wanting no stuns in Overwatch is that the game would straight up be nothing but uncatchable Tracers and Genjis times more than usual even, because that's how you stop them, that's the counter to them being so ridiculously mobile and flighty at all times, is that you have the ability available on X or Y people to make them sit down for even a second and die. That and while yes you can also just shoot these, quick stuns are pretty important for shutting out stuff like the Reaper that just jumped down into the middle of your team ulting and similar things. Like yeah it blows to get plain old stunned and fanned or whatever else too often at times, but the alternative outcome of them not being in the game is a whole, whole lot worse to think about.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:04
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SiKboy posted:Theres no downside of using ANY of the ults and missing, other than having to rebuild your meter, so I'm fine with it on that count too. (hanzo's punishment for missing with his ult is being able to feel his team rolling their eyes) Morpheus posted:Uh Mei's the best character and my main character, sorry for freezing all your butts thank you in advance. the thing dragging overwatch down is the fact that mei can't actually slide around on snow, iceman-style
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Sep 6, 2016 23:09
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Yardbomb posted:See the problem with wanting no stuns in Overwatch is that the game would straight up be nothing but uncatchable Tracers and Genjis times more than usual even, because that's how you stop them, that's the counter to them being so ridiculously mobile and flighty at all times, is that you have the ability available on X or Y people to make them sit down for even a second and die. That and while yes you can also just shoot these, quick stuns are pretty important for shutting out stuff like the Reaper that just jumped down into the middle of your team ulting and similar things. Like yeah it blows to get plain old stunned and fanned or whatever else too often at times, but the alternative outcome of them not being in the game is a whole, whole lot worse to think about. Yes, a lot of the game would require being retooled to compensate for the lack of stuns if they were removed. It would be a better game overall no matter what.
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Sep 7, 2016 02:06
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CJacobs posted:Yes, a lot of the game would require being retooled to compensate for the lack of stuns if they were removed. It would be a better game overall no matter what. This position is so unbelievably stupid it's hard to fathom
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Sep 7, 2016 02:37
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Obviously I do not want them to redo the game from the ground up because that wouldn't be worth the time and effort, it's a hindsight thing. It would have been nice if Blizzard had learned from 10+ years of stun moves that stun moves suck poo poo and not put them in Overwatch, but they did, and so it is dragged down by that. edit: But still, it would make it a better game imo and I do not care if you find that position ridiculous CJacobs has a new favorite as of 02:48 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 02:45
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E: I was able to get it removed via live chat. Everything I read made it sound like this was going to be a massive pain in the rear end but I just needed to give my name on the account and the answer to the security question. FalloutGod has a new favorite as of 19:52 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 02:55
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Jia posted:This position is so unbelievably stupid it's hard to fathom
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Sep 7, 2016 02:55
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Gato posted:The prevalence and importance of stuns in Overwatch is even more aggravating given that Blizzard figured out way back in vanilla WoW that people hate losing control of their character and nerfed the hell out of crowd control in PvP, to much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the time. I haven't played WoW since WotLK, so I've got no idea if they stuck with that, though. Last time I played PVP in WoW it was just a paladin gang-bang forever because they had ranged stuns and could heal themselves. Stuntman posted:Eh, it's easy to understand the logic behind extrapolating "stuns annoy me" to "stuns are a bad game mechanic" despite them being objectively wrong. How is it objectively wrong? In a multiplayer game stuns are often easily abused leading to frequent periods of time where complete control of your character is taken away from players, disrupting the flow and momentum of the game. If the initial problem is that some characters are so fast and mobile that the rest of the cast can't keep up at all, the solution isn't to give everyone else attacks that just lock down a target's mobility completely. It's to tweak the balance of speed and movement. Nuebot has a new favorite as of 03:02 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 02:59
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Gitro posted:I don't know if I'm missing something but holy gently caress the Shaelmaar fight in Witcher 3 is loving awful. Attack that hits multiple times and can knock of easily half my health if it hits the first time? Great! Can't actually dodge it because the hitbox is larger than the actual boss and my dodge move just doesn't move me far enough? Awesome! Boss is mostly unable to be damaged? Always fun. Quen doesn't actually stop the knockback effect so even if I have it up it saves me one hit, then I die anyway. It's a pity because everything else has been fun as gently caress. It took me a while to figure out, but that monster's Aard weakness seems to actually be that Aard produces a loud sound that can get it to smash into a wall, instead of using the bombs to do that.
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Sep 7, 2016 04:01
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Perestroika posted:Could it be that your friends play on console, while you're on PC? IIRC, turrets tend to do much better on consoles, since their autoaim is relatively more powerful and it takes a longer time for players to take them out. For the same reason Torbjörn used to be incredibly powerful on consoles (until they nerfed his turret's damage by like 30%) while he's always been a pretty situational gimmick on PC. No, we all play on PC. They're just terrible at figuring out how to break off from/destroy her turrets and handle her Ghostbuster laser. Meanwhile I'm painstakingly looking for areas where her kit is actually good and useful (particularly comparing to Torbjorn) and I've come up with three locations. Two are in Kings' Row, one in the Temple of Anubis, all around the maps' first points. She is useless EVERYWHERE ELSE, including all areas beyond the first points of those maps.
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Sep 7, 2016 04:14
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Stuns are unfun as hell in games without massively high TTK like MOBAs, and if they managed to cock up the design of their non-MOBA game enough to the point where stuns are the only thing that can balance it, that is a further problem they can also be blamed for I really wanted to like overwatch but I bounced off of it faster than almost any other game that I've ended up hating in the end. Stuns are bad but ultimates bother me more, as part of a larger design where characters are heavily defined by cooldown abilities instead of an unchanging, always-available loadout designed to provide a high skill ceiling like team fortress. Overwatch's flow feels more like a MOBA than a shooter in the end. Will probably be writing off blizzard automatically if they attempt making another action game.
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Sep 7, 2016 05:21
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Yeah I've hit the point where I've written off Blizzard as a developer personally. They just seem to have changed to where they make games that are still really polished and shiny on the surface but that don't appeal to me at all once I try to go any deeper. Every game lately I'm actively hating the systems but the sheer polish pulls me along until that wears away. It's a shame because they used to be my favourite developer in the years covering Warcraft 2 to early WoW.
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Sep 7, 2016 05:39
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also her weird teleporting whenever you turned a corner. Holy poo poo, thank you, I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.
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Sep 7, 2016 05:47
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Nuebot posted:How is it objectively wrong? In a multiplayer game stuns are often easily abused leading to frequent periods of time where complete control of Sounds like a paper-says-scissors-is-OP situation to me, chief. If the other team plays high stun, maybe Play someone who doesn't get prioritised for stunning?
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Sep 7, 2016 06:46
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