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Park Old Han in front of swarm. Dump a cargo full of garbage in front of swarm and fly away.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:21
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I'm just extremely disappointed because they're pushing the Rey-Finn relationship hard while completely neglecting the fact that Finn-Poe bromance was a huge subtext throughout the movie. 
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Sep 6, 2016 17:28
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Alternate TIE sf with our rad bromance or i boycott ur game ffg
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Sep 6, 2016 17:30
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Otisburg posted:Alternate TIE sf with our rad bromance or i boycott ur game ffg
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Sep 6, 2016 17:31
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New mwg combo. Rey crew on moldy crow.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:36
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Rey with Finn and Kanan, Opportunist, Wes and Jan flying shotgun. 5-6 dice with a mini TL and focus every attack. 
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Sep 6, 2016 17:38
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Five points to add a blank to primary weapon or defense rolls when certain conditions are met. Okay.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:06
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Otisburg posted:Alternate TIE sf with our rad bromance or i boycott ur game ffg THISSSSSSSS That's all I want right now. FFG already satisfied part of my EpVII autism by releasing a Falcon mini with the new rectangular rectenna. Now, all I need is a Poe/Finn TIE/sf and my journey to the dark side will be COM-PLEET
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Sep 6, 2016 18:14
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Panzeh posted:Finn is primary only. Your quest to add more dice is over, strobe. Or is it? 100 points: Shara Bey (31) ARC-170 (28), Adaptability (0), Weapons Engineer (3), Alliance Overhaul (0) Norra Wexley (38) ARC-170 (29), Opportunist (4), Finn (5), Alliance Overhaul (0) Jan Ors (31) HWK-290 (25), Adaptability (0), Twin Laser Turret (6) Norra takes a focus action, fires a 3 die primary, adds 1 for Opportunist, adds 1 for Jan, uses Finn to add a blank result, spends her target lock to re-roll blanks, spends one of Shara's TLs to add a focus result, spends her focus token. 8 dice at range 1, 7 at 2-3. Now That's What I Call Dakka 
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Sep 6, 2016 18:23
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Or is it? This is the Rebel-est list, and I love it
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Sep 6, 2016 18:40
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Compared to the 12 points it takes to get an extra die on the Toiletseat, Finn's not bad at all. Yeah, it's a die you have to modify but if you have OT Han & a target lock you're looking at throwing 5 re-rollable dice. Add in glitterstim or a support ship to pass in a focus and the Falcon's way more effective offensively. Get-Off-My-Lawn-Han with Sabine will make for some really wacky hijinks. TremorX fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 18:41
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OK one more thought on that 7-8 dice house of cards: Expected damage on that 7 die attack is just over 6, with one crit. With that and the other two ships, you could easily wipe a range 2 palp shuttle from the board in a single round of shooting. I mean, the remaining 71 points of aces would still wipe the floor with you, but you get my drift.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:48
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Kai Tave posted:Five points to add a blank to primary weapon or defense rolls when certain conditions are met. Rerolls are easy to come by.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:59
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TremorX posted:Compared to the 12 points it takes to get an extra die on the Toiletseat, Finn's not bad at all. Yeah, it's a die you have to modify but if you have OT Han & a target lock you're looking at throwing 5 re-rollable dice. Add in glitterstim or a support ship to pass in a focus and the Falcon's way more effective offensively. There's no opportunity cost to using the P1 title, and its an ultra cheap ship to start out with. It works out of arc too, doesn't it? Rebels have tons of playable crew now at 1 or 2 points, 5 points is terrible.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:11
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canyoneer posted:OK one more thought on that 7-8 dice house of cards: Expected damage on that 7 die attack is just over 6, with one crit. With that and the other two ships, you could easily wipe a range 2 palp shuttle from the board in a single round of shooting. Six expected damage is enough to pop the SD on Soontir even if he rolls perfect. Six expected damage is enough to burn into Vader's hull with the crit unless he rolls perfectly (and has an evade token). Six expected damage is enough to land hits on the Inquisitor under perfect conditions. And it's reusable every turn.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:35
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alg posted:There's no opportunity cost to using the P1 title, and its an ultra cheap ship to start out with. It works out of arc too, doesn't it? Finn replaces gunner by removing the game focus from "Evades fail eventually!" law of averages grinding and instead putting it on doing enough damage to get through full defense packages.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:38
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I put together a funsies list yesterday with a fully loaded Darth Vader and a miniswarm of 3 weapons guidance TIE/fo s. That is a really fun upgrade on those ships, each of those with a focus ends up pretty consistently with 2 hits on each roll.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:38
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Strobe posted:Finn replaces gunner by removing the game focus from "Evades fail eventually!" law of averages grinding and instead putting it on doing enough damage to get through full defense packages. This goes into my theory--which I'll post in full eventually--that the game of X-Wing has evolved past its early "three pillars" of Jouster, Arc Dodger, Turret. One of our new pillars is Reliable Damage, the ability to push damage through even piles of tokens and green dice. Finn fits squarely into that Reliable Damage category by increasing the number of possible hits. Gunner's value, while still high, is still highly susceptible to being mitigated entirely.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:56
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ConfusedUs posted:This goes into my theory--which I'll post in full eventually--that the game of X-Wing has evolved past its early "three pillars" of Jouster, Arc Dodger, Turret. Yeah, I think gunner is more useful on ships that can sling decent 3 dice attacks *with an additional effect*. Either a way to make a third attack, Tactician or another debuff, etc. Otherwise you might as well just find a way to hit a little harder because adding hits is very nice if you're at the 3 dice minimum to start off.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:04
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The Gate posted:Yeah, I think gunner is more useful on ships that can sling decent 3 dice attacks *with an additional effect*. Either a way to make a third attack, Tactician or another debuff, etc. Otherwise you might as well just find a way to hit a little harder because adding hits is very nice if you're at the 3 dice minimum to start off. Absolutely! Gunner + Vader is still a really scary combo against ships with high damage mitigation. A decimator with that combo who is willing to self-damage is guaranteed to kill any 4-health or lower ship in 2 rounds or less. It's pure death to every Phantom, Interceptor, TIE, and TIE Advanced Prototype. Only slightly less scary to TIE Advanceds and most Rebel ships with Regen. Rebels don't have Vader, though, and no one takes Tactician on a Falcon (although that could change with this whole shift towards in-arc effects). So Finn is probably better. 
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Sep 6, 2016 20:08
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Gunner is almost always better than Finn. Making an opponent roll defense twice is better than 50/50 of an extra hit sometimes except against low defense ships. Gunner also synergizes with original Han's ability by letting him dump middling rolls knowing gunner will happen if he rolls into a worse shot. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 20:18
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Peak damage will get through an ace faster than rolling until the average catches up, and is a lot more fun to play besides.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:38
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Strobe posted:Peak damage will get through an ace faster than rolling until the average catches up, and is a lot more fun to play besides. Peak damage if you have them in your arc and if you have a predator/LW reroll available. You gain nothing if you already rolled a blank the first time. Too many caveats. Keep in mind that with gunner any tokens they spend on the first will not be there on the second roll. Gunner is just more powerful in general. Finn is pretty good in a few situations but is no replacement for gunner.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:44
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Finn has a higher ceiling that requires skill and list synergy to achieve. It is potentially better than Gunner, but only if you play to it right. It also helps you defensively. Damage mitigation is not to be discounted. Gunner doesn't really need the same skill. It's got a higher floor, but the ceiling isn't as high. You're not likely to hurt a tokened-up imperial ace with Palpatine support, even with Gunner.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:49
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ConfusedUs posted:Finn has a higher ceiling that requires skill and list synergy to achieve. It is potentially better than Gunner, but only if you play to it right. It also helps you defensively. Damage mitigation is not to be discounted. You're also not likely to hurt one with Finn. His defensive ability only really shines with Rey or a ship equipped with LW but once again for his ability to be profitable you have to not roll blanks on your original dice. That's the rub with Finn. He does add a dice but it's a lot less good than a real one unless you can always engineer a TL. He's at his best either with Rey or on a ship with FCS like a ghost.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:55
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I've shot torpedoes at full-tokens aces before and let me tell you that even with all hits, the extra die doesn't matter much. It's much better to get the second shot/torpedo and hope the first strips some tokens in that situation.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:58
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The thing is that Finn on the right ships is actually a bump from 4 dice to 5 at range 1, not 3 dice to 4 at range 2-3. Going to 5 dice, in a range band where AT doesn't function, is hugely more effective. It's a way to get that magical 5th die without having to run an entire extra ship like Jan, or some crazy gimmick combo wombo. Just a crew slot and a high PS ship. I don't think it's a godlike combo, but he's a good card for sure against high-evasion targets.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:10
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Or is it? I will use any excuse to pre-order 2 of the ARC-170s
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Sep 6, 2016 21:12
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The Gate posted:The thing is that Finn on the right ships is actually a bump from 4 dice to 5 at range 1, not 3 dice to 4 at range 2-3. Going to 5 dice, in a range band where AT doesn't function, is hugely more effective. It's a way to get that magical 5th die without having to run an entire extra ship like Jan, or some crazy gimmick combo wombo. Just a crew slot and a high PS ship. The ships where Finn's ability will consistently trigger will tend to either be low PS or require some gimmicky wombo combo stuff, though. He doesn't actually synergize that well with stuff like predator since his extra dice requires modification to work.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:22
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Panzeh posted:The ships where Finn's ability will consistently trigger will tend to either be low PS or require some gimmicky wombo combo stuff, though. He doesn't actually synergize that well with stuff like predator since his extra dice requires modification to work. The best ship for Finn is Rey at PS8 natively, which is hardly too low to be useful. VI gets her to 10, and with her ability, she doesn't really need Predator, Lone Wolf, target locks, or any of those other common things that you think are "wombo combos".
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Sep 6, 2016 21:27
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ConfusedUs posted:The best ship for Finn is Rey at PS8 natively, which is hardly too low to be useful. VI gets her to 10, and with her ability, she doesn't really need Predator, Lone Wolf, target locks, or any of those other common things that you think are "wombo combos". Yeah, i did say before he'd be good on Rey. He synergizes well with her ability. He is not better than gunner in most circumstances though. (He is actually better than gunner on low defense targets) The effect is really expensive for one that demands that kind of synergy.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:31
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Or is it? My god...its beautiful. :edit: Oh wait. Does the Weapon's Engineer get you anything? The two locks are on different ships so you could use one to add a die, but Shara's other lock is on someone else. Just a set up for the next round? Travic fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 21:39
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, i did say before he'd be good on Rey. He synergizes well with her ability. He is not better than gunner in most circumstances though. I agree he's overcosted if you look at his offensive ability alone, but he also adds to defense. If he were offense only he'd be worth 3-4 points. Not that half points are a thing, but adding any die result is probably worth more than 3 points. But he adds to every defensive roll also. The damage mitigation potential is high, too. That's worth a point or two. So put it all together and I see why he costs 5 points. Rey + Finn crew still has another crew slot that can further boost offensive or defensive abilities. It really is the best combo.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:46
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, i did say before he'd be good on Rey. He synergizes well with her ability. He is not better than gunner in most circumstances though. He's good on Rey, he's good on original Han, he's hilarious on Rage Keyan (lol points), he has the serious potential to be really good on someone like Eaden Vrill and a stressmaker, and he's kind of terrifying on FCS/AB Ghost. He's terrible on generic Falcons, Fringers, and HWKs. What other crew slots can Rebels even field? 
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Sep 6, 2016 21:53
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Suddenly I want to see Rage Rey with Finn and Jyn. Just because.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:55
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I'm surprised to see how much you guys don't like Finn. Here's a 3 die focus shot into c3p0'd han: 0 0.15625 1 0.421875 2 0.421875 Expected Damage 1.265625 Tokenless Defender 0.984375 Crit Chance 0.306640625 Expected Crits 0.337890625 Here's a 3 die focus shot into two greens with LW, which is actually much worse than Finn + Rey: 0 0.222442626953125 1 0.34661865234375 2 0.31805419921875 3 0.112884521484375 Expected Damage 1.321380615234375 Crit Chance 0.28118896484375 Expected Crits 0.3084068298339844 That's with no tokens on either! Finn also works on offense, and is reusable. Focus obviously gets very good on Rey very quickly, much better than evades on Han are.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:01
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Strobe posted:Suddenly I want to see Rage Rey with Finn and Jyn. Just because. Call it "Fearsome FynnGyn."
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Sep 6, 2016 22:01
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Strobe posted:He's good on Rey, he's good on original Han, he's hilarious on Rage Keyan (lol points), he has the serious potential to be really good on someone like Eaden Vrill and a stressmaker, and he's kind of terrifying on FCS/AB Ghost. He's actually not that good on old school Han, he's worth every point on Rey. He's a 3 point card on anyone but Rey. He's pretty good on an FCS ghost(but the cost.. gunner is also good on an fcs ghost). Finn is basically costed for Rey. His defensive ability is tailor made for her, almost non-existent for anyone else.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:15
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To bring some positivity, though, Rey crew is probably costed correctly and if you were looking for some action economy on say Eaden Vrill she's just the ticket. She's a really good card and helps a lot of ships.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:32
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Panzeh posted:He's actually not that good on old school Han, he's worth every point on Rey. He's a 3 point card on anyone but Rey. He's pretty good on an FCS ghost(but the cost.. gunner is also good on an fcs ghost). Yep. He just has too many restrictions to cost 5 points. On defense especially I'm not going to add a 5pt crew with arc requirements to an already ~45 pt ship. It's fun to say he requires skill but he also requires your opponent to gently caress up. If he worked on any ship on the board, or didn't have requirements, or added a hit or crit he might be worth 5 points. As it is he doesn't match up at all with the meta changing stuff Imps and Scum have gotten in the last few waves. This after R3 was revealed, lol. Edit: also agree on Rey
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Sep 6, 2016 22:32
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