Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

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TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

My court physician made me eat cow poo poo, smell goat farts, hanged me upside down, made me sleep sitting tied to a chair for days, covered me in angry bees and lopped off some body parts from me.

Now the game is telling me that if I were to reverse the roles (that is, imprison and torture him), I would be a cruel tyrant.

How is that fair, game? Do you have no decency?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 21:52

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# ? May 28, 2024 19:01

Roland Jones: Aug 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

axeil posted:

Letting you execute/banish people who really wronged you would be nice. As it is you almost never wanna use it because of the tyranny penalty.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think letting you kill people more often would really break the game or anything. You capture someone in war, you still want to use that as leverage towards winning the war rather than taking revenge (unless you're spiteful or something), while righteous imprisonment usually leads to revoking titles if the person has any because that's preferable. Executing people already isn't the preferred option most of the time, so disincentivizing it further seems unnecessary.

Darkrenown posted:

I'll see what I can do about some justified executions. Personally if someone is annoying enough I saw them in half regardless of tyranny though.

Thanks, that'd be neat. Besides that, halving the penalty might change how people approach things; I can see people repeatedly taking -5 execution penalties and not realizing how much they've added up until Problems happen. (Also, as people have mentioned, otherwise you just kill them by keeping them imprisoned forever anyway.)

Of course, family, friends, and lovers of the executed person should probably hate you for it, even if things are adjusted so most people don't mind so much as long as you're not killing people they like/people like them. How does it currently work? I know family hates it, but do friends and lovers care if you execute their friend/lover? I don't actually kill people (personally; I have armies to do that for me) all that often.

Darth Windu posted:

Romuva Lithuania snagged the four holy sites that aren't in horde lands and reformed their faith, pretty cool. First time I've seen non germanics manage it

Yeah, it's not super-common but it sometimes happens and it's neat. I've seen Tengri get reformed in one of my past (like, pre-Horse Lords) Zoro games.

TorakFade posted:

My court physician made me eat cow poo poo, smell goat farts, hanged me upside down, made me sleep sitting tied to a chair for days, covered me in angry bees and lopped off some body parts from me.

Now the game is telling me that if I were to reverse the roles (that is, imprison and torture him), I would be a cruel tyrant.

How is that fair, game? Do you have no decency?

For some reason imprisoning the physician when they gently caress up treatment of family is okay, but when they screw up operating on you it's not (always? I think I've seen it sometimes but I might be confusing it with the aforementioned family events), which is weird and unfortunate, yeah.

Edit: Also, do physicians who dislike you deliberately try to mess up your treatments? I once had a guy with like -50 opinion of me or something trying to cure my cancer or whatever, and his treatment consisted of him sticking something that might have been infected flesh in an incision he made, and I died not long afterward. The guy had amazing stats so him doing that instead of just lopping something off seems odd.

Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:05

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

Darkrenown posted:

I agreed with succession laws in the post you quoted Crown laws are already on a 50 year cool down or death since 2.6.

I'll see what I can do about some justified executions. Personally if someone is annoying enough I saw them in half regardless of tyranny though.

I read gud :downs:

sorry about that. Glad to hear the crown laws are on a timer now, as I had no idea they changed as I don't think I've ever had a ruler last that long after changing a law.

:woop:

for justified executions! Now there will finally be a reason to actually kill someone instead of throwing them in the oubliette or just keeping them in prison forever.

I also just got the spawn of Satan event in my Roman Empire ironman game. This is gonna be amazing isn't it?

Roland Jones posted:

Yeah. I mean, I don't think letting you kill people more often would really break the game or anything. You capture someone in war, you still want to use that as leverage towards winning the war rather than taking revenge (unless you're spiteful or something), while righteous imprisonment usually leads to revoking titles if the person has any because that's preferable. Executing people already isn't the preferred option most of the time, so disincentivizing it further seems unnecessary.

Thanks, that'd be neat. Besides that, halving the penalty might change how people approach things; I can see people repeatedly taking -5 execution penalties and not realizing how much they've added up until Problems happen.

Of course, family, friends, and lovers of the executed person should probably hate you for it, even if things are adjusted so most people don't mind so much as long as you're not killing people they like/people like them. How does it currently work? I know family hates it, but do friends and lovers care if you execute their friend/lover? I don't actually kill people (personally; I have armies to do that for me) all that often.

I think it would be neat if those in the loyalist/pragmatist faction on the council liked you more for executing traitors as they want the realm to be stable. Malcontent, zealous and glory hounds could be wild cards.

axeil fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:14

TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

Roland Jones posted:

For some reason imprisoning the physician when they gently caress up treatment of family is okay, but when they screw up operating on you it's not (always? I think I've seen it sometimes but I might be confusing it with the aforementioned family events), which is weird and unfortunate, yeah.

Edit: Also, do physicians who dislike you deliberately try to mess up your treatments? I once had a guy with like -50 opinion of me or something trying to cure my cancer or whatever, and his treatment consisted of him sticking something that might have been infected flesh in an incision he made, and I died not long afterward. The guy had amazing stats so him doing that instead of just lopping something off seems odd.

Might have something to do with the fact that his "treatments" were somehow actually effective, but gently caress it, you can't buttrape me with a nasty looking instrument to cure me of the flu and expect me to be happy about it.

I could just switch him to "court torturer" and nobody would notice, drat it!

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:22

Roland Jones: Aug 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

TorakFade posted:

Might have something to do with the fact that his "treatments" were somehow actually effective, but gently caress it, you can't buttrape me with a nasty looking instrument to cure me of the flu and expect me to be happy about it.

I could just switch him to "court torturer" and nobody would notice, drat it!

Oh, it actually worked? In that case yeah, you don't get to complain.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:25

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

This is weird.

My son is my heir. By itself, that is not weird. What IS weird is that the primogeniture succession is not tracing to him AS my son directly. Instead it is tracing to him as my great-great-great-grandson, as I married my great-great-grandson, who was my heir, and popped out a few babies with him. Ireland, which has Agnatic-Cognatic (Skyjland, my custom kingdom, and England each have Absolute Cognatic) Primogeniture succession, traces through males to find a different heir.

Immortality is weird.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:40

Roland Jones: Aug 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

Sky Shadowing posted:

This is weird.

My son is my heir. By itself, that is not weird. What IS weird is that the primogeniture succession is not tracing to him AS my son directly. Instead it is tracing to him as my great-great-great-grandson, as I married my great-great-grandson, who was my heir, and popped out a few babies with him. Ireland, which has Agnatic-Cognatic (Skyjland, my custom kingdom, and England each have Absolute Cognatic) Primogeniture succession, traces through males to find a different heir.

Immortality is weird.

I think it's the incest that's making it weird, not the immortality.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:46

Sinestro: Oct 31, 2010; The perfect day needs the perfect set of wheels.

Roland Jones posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Crusader Kings II: I think it's the incest that's making it weird

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:47

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Roland Jones posted:

I think it's the incest that's making it weird, not the immortality.

I actually did it strictly because my heirship had passed to some podunk courtier of a minor Scandanavian kingdom, and I wanted to get it back under control, lest my Fylkja kick the bucket. This way I can control the marriages of my heirs to ensure that said heir is always of my dynasty.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:51

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

SeaTard posted:

Raiding Spain for Sayyid is a good idea, I hadn't thought about going that route. I currently own Island, the Orkneys, and Naumadal (because I was thinking about reforming the faith). The other 4 holy sites are owned 2 and 2 by Francia and my brother-in-law, the King of Denmark, Sweden, and England. Once he gets 750 piety I was thinking about just swearing fealty to him so he can reform the faith.

Yeah, if he's a king you might as well swear fealty and let him reform. It won't stop you from merchanting it up after all, from what I remember.

FreudianSlippers posted:

What is a good Muslim start?

I've done Mali before and the Saffarids as a way of then converting to Zoroastrianism but I don't think I've ever done a full Muslim playthrough.

Play the Shiites in Mecca, eat the Arabian empire from the inside. The only problem is that you're no longer able to form the Shiite caliphate while a vassal, so there's annoying conversion shenanigans gonna happen to ya

Sky Shadowing posted:

This is weird.

My son is my heir. By itself, that is not weird. What IS weird is that the primogeniture succession is not tracing to him AS my son directly. Instead it is tracing to him as my great-great-great-grandson, as I married my great-great-grandson, who was my heir, and popped out a few babies with him. Ireland, which has Agnatic-Cognatic (Skyjland, my custom kingdom, and England each have Absolute Cognatic) Primogeniture succession, traces through males to find a different heir.

Immortality is weird.

Wait wait wait

Immortal women don't enter menopause???
MY IMMERSION!!1

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:52

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Wait wait wait

Immortal women don't enter menopause???
MY IMMERSION!!1

If you achieve immortality before you can stop bearing children, you can bear children forever.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 23:55

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Sky Shadowing posted:

If you achieve immortality before you can stop bearing children, you can bear children forever.

Hmmmm

It would be cool if there were different types of immortality. Forever young, stuck in the same age or of course, good old "grow old but never die, end up incapable forever until someone, mercifully, takes you out or the seven bad health traits get you".

Oh and Freudian Slippers, Fabricating a claim on Ireland as the Ibadi in W-Africa can be amusing, because your conquests of Ireland let you revoke the priests to make the holdings there way better. It's honestly one of my fav ironman games until the patch with Conclave messed up my laws and made me unable to revoke dick and reset my tribal organization

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:01

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Deceitful Penguin posted:

"grow old but never die, end up incapable forever until someone, mercifully, takes you out or the seven bad health traits get you".

There would need to be new portraits for this where they're just full cryptkeeper.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:03

DMW45: Oct 29, 2011; Come into my parlor~
Said the spider to the fly~

Psht. All this talk of converting religions, if you're immortal/possessed/lunatic you should have a rare option/event to proclaim yourself God Emperor and found your own religion.

Darkrenown posted:

I'll see what I can do about some justified executions. Personally if someone is annoying enough I saw them in half regardless of tyranny though.

I'm just surprised that Treason/Civil War isn't grounds for execution when it comes to Tyranny. If that isn't, what is?

DMW45 fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 7, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:06

DMW45: Oct 29, 2011; Come into my parlor~
Said the spider to the fly~

Deceitful Penguin posted:

It would be cool if there were different types of immortality. Forever young, stuck in the same age or of course, good old "grow old but never die, end up incapable forever until someone, mercifully, takes you out or the seven bad health traits get you".

I believe that actually happens if you get the immortal trait as a child or pick it through the Ruler Designer Unlocker mod. Something about changing the portrait from Child to Adult breaks that part of the trait.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:11

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Roland Jones posted:

Edit: Also, do physicians who dislike you deliberately try to mess up your treatments? I once had a guy with like -50 opinion of me or something trying to cure my cancer or whatever, and his treatment consisted of him sticking something that might have been infected flesh in an incision he made, and I died not long afterward. The guy had amazing stats so him doing that instead of just lopping something off seems odd.

You could argue about 'deliberately,' but yes, the physician's opinion of you affects whether they get the good/excellent outcome or the poor/terrible outcome.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:14

EightDeer: Dec 2, 2011

BenRGamer posted:

Psht. All this talk of converting religions, if you're immortal/possessed/lunatic you should have a rare option/event to proclaim yourself God Emperor and found your own religion.

I think Paradox missed an opportunity by not having an achievement named "Golden Throne" for being an Emperor with both the Immortal and Incapable traits.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:20

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

The Cheshire Cat posted:

There would need to be new portraits for this where they're just full cryptkeeper.

Finally, a use for the old portrait pack~

BenRGamer posted:

I believe that actually happens if you get the immortal trait as a child or pick it through the Ruler Designer Unlocker mod. Something about changing the portrait from Child to Adult breaks that part of the trait.

Huhhh. I knew that giving immortal to horses did uhhh, interesting things, but didn�t think of doing it with kids. Might try that out sometime.

Speaking of immortality stuff, would be funny if "Been ruling for a while" modifier eventually tops out and starts turning negative, as people start getting a mite irate that someone managed to beat that whole 'mortality' shindig

Though there's been lotsa ideas for immortality events, I dunno how neat that is for something that honestly, isn't terribly likely to happen often. Though those rare events are often quite amusing.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:29

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Speaking of immortality stuff, would be funny if "Been ruling for a while" modifier eventually tops out and starts turning negative, as people start getting a mite irate that someone managed to beat that whole 'mortality' shindig

It does, though I'm not sure exactly how it works. "Ruled too long," or something like that. There's new defines for it that I can't completely parse:

code:

	MAX_LONG_REIGN_BONUS = 100,                 -- Max bonus in opinion you can get from long reign 
	LONG_REIGN_PENALTY = -2,       				-- Penalty ticking down every year from long reign bonus
	LONG_REIGN_PENALTY_START = 3, 				-- What year penalty tick should start

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:37

Roland Jones: Aug 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

Strudel Man posted:

You could argue about 'deliberately,' but yes, the physician's opinion of you affects whether they get the good/excellent outcome or the poor/terrible outcome.

The text I got made what my physician did seem sinister, rather than merely a mistake, which is part of why I'm wondering; it made it seem like a murder attempt. Thanks for the info, though.

BenRGamer posted:

I'm just surprised that Treason/Civil War isn't grounds for execution when it comes to Tyranny. If that isn't, what is?

Yeah, that's definitely the big one that shouldn't invoke tyranny. I mean, you could get executed for a lot of things back in the day, but rebellion in particular seems like it's a thing that got you killed if you didn't win or get the hell out after losing.

Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 7, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:47

Honky Dong Country: Feb 11, 2015

My doctors love nothing more than chopping my dick off. I can't even be angry because it always happens after I've already got a bunch of heirs and it usually works.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:11

The General: Mar 4, 2007

If you live 10 years in the holding cells, I generally upgrade you to house arrest. Because 10 years is enough time with an overflowing poo poo bucket and piss pail.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:21

Hadaka Apron: Feb 12, 2015

I'm playing as the Hashimid Caliphate (Shia) and my Jewish physician treated me with some sow's urine. Wonder where he got that...

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:25

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Hadaka Apron posted:

I'm playing as the Hashimid Caliphate (Shia) and my Jewish physician treated me with some sow's urine. Wonder where he got that...

Slaves maybe, they'd be pagans and christians probs and therefore be fine with swine.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:41

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

BenRGamer posted:

I'm just surprised that Treason/Civil War isn't grounds for execution when it comes to Tyranny. If that isn't, what is?

I think the mass incarceration after a civil war is just as bad. Mayor shitlord doesn't face the same punishment as the ring leaders in a Civil War. Getting that many people in jail at once easily makes the realm too stable as you can replace so many at once.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:59

Honky Dong Country: Feb 11, 2015

The General posted:

If you live 10 years in the holding cells, I generally upgrade you to house arrest. Because 10 years is enough time with an overflowing poo poo bucket and piss pail.

gently caress that guy. He should be happy to have a bucket and pail. :colbert:

# ? Sep 7, 2016 02:04

A Tartan Tory: Mar 26, 2010; You call that a shotgun?!

I have taken to just straight up executing anyone that ends up in my jail.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 02:09

DMW45: Oct 29, 2011; Come into my parlor~
Said the spider to the fly~

I took to devouring them because that didn't give the tyranny penalty.

They might hate me for being a crazy cannibal, but they would have hated me more for executing 8+ traitors traditionally.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 02:41

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Hadaka Apron posted:

I'm playing as the Hashimid Caliphate (Shia) and my Jewish physician treated me with some sow's urine. Wonder where he got that...

He knows a guy.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 02:41

a shiny rock: Nov 13, 2009

Other than "fight them," any general tips for when I get Jihaded? Strategies I should follow? Never been in this situation before. I'm the king of Castille and was well on the way to completing the Reconquista. I was in the middle of an aggressive landgrab since the Almohad sultanate broke up into smaller states and I was gobbling them up while I could, so my army isn't exactly well rested.

My current borders:

I have the HRE and England as allies so I'll obviously call them in.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:02

Honky Dong Country: Feb 11, 2015

Honestly, fight them is pretty much it, I think. Some guys mentioned crushing crusades by stomping the Pope in Rome though, so maybe that would work on the Caliph too?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:04

GreenMarine: Apr 25, 2009; Switchblade Switcharoo

This may be the most bad rear end of the popes.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:06

Honky Dong Country: Feb 11, 2015

My current pope is a complete fucker. He took the seduction focus and won't stop loving my wives.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:07

slap me and kiss me: Apr 1, 2008; You best protect ya neck

Are there any good mods that drop the per-county supply limit by a bunch? I don't mind the huge armies, but it would be nice if they were spread out across several areas rather than 48,000 enemies all piled into one province.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:08

a shiny rock: Nov 13, 2009

I considered trying to do something to the caliph. Wasn't sure if that would end the jihad or not.

Also my dude is pretty old. If he dies, does the jihad continue?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:09

GreenMarine: Apr 25, 2009; Switchblade Switcharoo

Is it possible to become a rival of the pope and kill him in a duel?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:11

Schizotek: Nov 8, 2011; I say, hey, listen to me!
Stay sane inside insanity!!!

GreenMarine posted:

Is it possible to become a rival of the pope and kill him in a duel?

Yes. There's no "religious leader" exemptions to dueling as far as I know.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:32

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Parallax Scroll posted:

I considered trying to do something to the caliph. Wasn't sure if that would end the jihad or not.

Also my dude is pretty old. If he dies, does the jihad continue?

The Jihad will continue until peace is concluded. The easiest way to defeat Crusade/Jihad/Great Holy War is by going on the offensive against the person who declared it. So if you were in the Holy Land and the Pope declares a Crusade you embark all your troops and send them to the Papal States and siege him down.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 03:45

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Honky Dong Country posted:

Honestly, fight them is pretty much it, I think. Some guys mentioned crushing crusades by stomping the Pope in Rome though, so maybe that would work on the Caliph too?

It does work, but it's not quite as easy since typically the Caliph controls more land than the Pope (depends on your start date though - The Sunni Caliph is the head of the Abbasid blob in the Charlemagne start and thus is gigantic, but in the 1066 start date he's just a duke under the Seljuk kingdom). You can always get lucky and capture them from their capital for an instant 100% warscore, although they might be leading troops in the field which means you'd have to track down their army and defeat them for a chance at that.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 04:44

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# ? May 28, 2024 19:01

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

Discussion > Games > Crusader Kings II: The Pope won't stop loving my wives.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 05:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

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