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I'm operating under the assumption that Charles will miss a couple games then come back and be solid. People draft Bell high knowing he's going to miss several games. It doesn't feel that different to me.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:09
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Samu posted:Should I take Kelvin Benjamin for Gio Bernard? My other RBs are Lacy, Charles, Foster and Henry and my WRs are Maclin, Hilton, Aiken, and Green-Beckham. Depends on how many WRs and RBs you can start and whether this is PPR or not, but I would probably pass on that trade.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:11
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How do you guys think a new OC and Melvin Gordon's possible improvement is going to impact Danny Woodhead? I own him in a 12 team PPR league and feel like I should be excited about it but get the sense that last year was his absolute best outcome and that I'm never going to feel confident starting him. Am I worrying too much? Current RBs are Ingram, Gio, Woodhead, Blount, CMike I'm slated to start Dwayne Allen at TE, but the Olsen owner is reallllly RB needy (he currently only owns Duke Johnson, Matt Jones, and Terrance West) and I'm tempted to offer him Woodhead and Allen for Olsen. Is this a good idea? I'd hope to pick up DeAndre Washington with my free roster spot. Doesn't leave me with a ton of RB depth but I'll almost certainly be flexing a receiver every week (OBJ/Landry/Cobb), so Gio could be a solid RB2 and maybe CMike takes off.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:12
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Samu posted:Should I take Kelvin Benjamin for Gio Bernard? My other RBs are Lacy, Charles, Foster and Henry and my WRs are Maclin, Hilton, Aiken, and Green-Beckham.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:12
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the_american_dream posted:Yea bad trade offers particularly if you dont know that person really makes you hate them and want them to fail. Like its probably human and correct to assume theyre new to FF and dont understand value but its lot easier to lean to "this guy is an rear end in a top hat" I got offered Donte Moncrief and a future 4th round pick for Lamar Miller. This is insulting because it was like ten minutes after the draft and you're basically telling me "you should pack it in and start stockpiling picks for next year". gently caress you, I exist to crush you from now on.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:13
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Mikey Purp posted:Depends on how many WRs and RBs you can start and whether this is PPR or not, but I would probably pass on that trade. 2 RB, 2 WR and 1 flex, 0 PPR. I'm trying to shop Gio Bernard to get a WR, since after Maclin and Hilton I have no reliable guys. I'm trying to shop Henry too to pick up like a Tavon Austin/Rashad Mathews tier guy. Who would you guys try to target with Bernard?
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Sep 7, 2016 21:15
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Samu posted:Who would you guys try to target with Bernard? Marvin Jones.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:22
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Tree Dude posted:I'm operating under the assumption that Charles will miss a couple games then come back and be solid. People draft Bell high knowing he's going to miss several games. It doesn't feel that different to me. One of them is turning 30 this season on a poo poo team with a poo poo coach and a poo poo QB while also coming back from his, I want to say 3rd?, knee injury The other is under 25 and is missing a few games because of  and when he returns he slots right in as a 3 down back in one of the best offenses in the league.It's really not the same thing at all and I am definitely a Charles apologist his RB1 days are over sorry bros
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Sep 7, 2016 21:26
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Teemu Pokemon posted:It's really not the sane thing at all and I am definitely a Charles apologist his RB1 days are over sorry bros I smell a 
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Sep 7, 2016 21:27
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I don't feel that confidently enough to die on that hill, but I'd say that if he is a RB1, it's going to be closer to RB12 than RB1
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Sep 7, 2016 21:28
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Professor Moriarty posted:Marvin Jones. Ted Ginn put up some eye-popping numbers last season with Cam throwing it to him and is real bad. Kelvin Benjamin is a good football man with some injury unknowns but a clear #1 in a great offense.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:29
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kiimo posted:Ware is going to be startable for like three weeks. When Jamaal is back he's tiers above West and Ware. They aren't, you know, ACTUAL fantasy starters. If they were able to combine their stats into the same guy they would be though. People say that every time a running back comes back from a major injury. Charles is 29 with an ACL tear and there's only one RB that I know of that came back to form after tearing his ACL so late in his career.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:30
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It's a valid opinion. He's not a slam-dunk, but I drafted him because he still has the ability to end the year as a top 3 RB. There aren't a lot of those guys. In my case, I also already had DJ and Nuk for super cheap, so I could afford to gamble a little. e: whoops, was replying to this: Teemu Pokemon posted:One of them is turning 30 this season on a poo poo team with a poo poo coach and a poo poo QB while also coming back from his, I want to say 3rd?, knee injury
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Sep 7, 2016 21:31
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I think you guys all need to remember that most people who play fantasy football do so very casually, do not post on forums about fantasy football, and are idiots. You don't want to make an insulting offer to someone, but on the other hand... there are idiots, and they exist to be taken advantage of in trades. The other thing is, not everyone "just drafted." Some leagues draft stupidly early. It's entirely possible some jamaal charles owners out there drafted him in August thinking he'd be 100% by week 1, and are now kind of feeling uneasy about him. And by the same token, some people are stupidly enthusiastic about untested rookies, like Sterling Shepard. I'm not saying even an idiot would take such a trade straight-up... but some people don't understand why it's a bad idea to trade a stud for two or three non-stud players. And I'll just reiterate because it really bears repeating: A lot of fantasy football players are loving idiots For exactly this same reason, you shouldn't be super insulted when someone offers you a really bad trade. Maybe they think you're an idiot, and yeah that's insulting, but also maybe they're the idiot and they just don't understand why their offer is so goddamn stupid. For example, Vargo here is probably not an idiot, he's just new to fantasy football. If he offered you T.Y HIlton for your Charles, you shouldn't be mad at him, you should just think "oh, this guy is a total newb, how cute" and then maybe make a counter-offer he might consider. Professor Moriarty posted:I'll never understand the rationale behind offering to trade someone with the same position as the guy being asked for. Like, this just means they don't understand. A lot of fantasy football players pick their players based on gutfeels and who they like. For all that guy knows, you changed your mind and wanted pocket hamster more than Miller. He doesn't know or understand that Miller is currently considered a higher pick, and he also doesn't know or understand that since you undoubtedly drafted Miller before Martin, that strongly suggests that you didn't want Martin over Miller. But... I've seen a guy who changed his mind constantly about who he liked from one day to the next, and he probably didn't quite understand that other people don't do that. Cervixalot posted:Week 1 is when everything comes crashing down in terms of projection and hype once we see what new coordinators/coaches/free agents do in terms of scheme, roles and production. This is largely true but just a reminder: last year, week 1, the San Francisco 49ers dominated the Vikings, 20 to 3. Everyone knew their defense had been gutted in the off-season, and yet, here they were, holding what was supposed to be a pretty good team, to one field goal! The niners went on to a 5-11 season, while the Vikings went 11-5. My point here is, the first week can also be wildly misleading. A lot of players are rusty, teams don't have much useful tape on their opponents yet, rookies haven't gotten their feet yet, all kinds of poo poo is still up in the air. Don't read too much into what happens week 1. I think a big common mistake fantasy football players make, is dropping decent guys after week 1 because of bad performance or low usage. Get ready for a lot of your players to underperform week 1, and don't panic when that happens.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:37
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Teemu Pokemon posted:One of them is turning 30 this season on a poo poo team with a poo poo coach and a poo poo QB while also coming back from his, I want to say 3rd?, knee injury Here's a list of Andy Reid rbs who weren't a rb1 in points per game: I hope you're gobbling up ware everything if you're that down on Charles. Papes fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 21:38
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dy. posted:I love Marvin Jones, but there is already an offer on the table for Kelvin Benjamin. If you're shopping for a WR that's probably the best you're going to get in my opinion. I wound up doing Derrick Henry for Golden Tate. I really hope I didn't trade away this years Todd Gurley because the dude looks like an animal but I think his trade value is inflated after the preseason he had, and really the preseason normally doesn't mean much.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:49
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I'm not really down on Charles, i just think it's weird that his risk is largely ignored when compared to how people would see a different back in a similar situation. Peterson has the same tread on his tires, same mediocre offense surrounding him, same youth movement at his heels, a similar age, and even less injury history, yet I see way more people who think he's "done" than I do of Charles. Just interesting imo
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Sep 7, 2016 21:50
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Teemu Pokemon posted:I'm not really down on Charles, i just think it's weird that his risk is largely ignored when compared to how people would see a different back in a similar situation. Peterson has the same tread on his tires, same mediocre offense surrounding him, same youth movement at his heels, a similar age, and even less injury history, yet I see way more people who think he's "done" than I do of Charles. Charles has much less wear on him but hes also a different kind of runner
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Sep 7, 2016 21:52
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Gobias Ind. posted:How do you guys think a new OC and Melvin Gordon's possible improvement is going to impact Danny Woodhead? I own him in a 12 team PPR league and feel like I should be excited about it but get the sense that last year was his absolute best outcome and that I'm never going to feel confident starting him. Am I worrying too much? Woodhead is my RB2 in a 12-team PPR, just like you, and I'm pretty happy with that. You are right that last year was his absolute best case, and I can almost guarantee he won't be the overall RB3 again this year (I didn't check that, but I read it earlier today, so we'll go with it). But he will be valuable and startable in that spot week in and week out, so I think you're worrying too much. Even if he loses some playing time, he is at worst their third-down back and so still has a nice floor in PPR.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:52
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Professor Moriarty posted:I got Charles at 3.12\4.1 in GoonTier B. I'll be running with Riddick, Langford, and Sproles until he's back, but hopefully that'll be worth the gamble. before the season starts and with the draft only like a week behind us at that.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:52
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Someone people just like to trade. There's a guy in my league who never makes the playoffs yet sends 20+ trade offers a day.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:53
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RCarr posted:Someone people just like to trade. There's a guy in my league who never makes the playoffs yet sends 20+ trade offers a day.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:57
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RCarr posted:Someone people just like to trade. There's a guy in my league who never makes the playoffs yet sends 20+ trade offers a day. Yea theres someone in one my leauges like that, though he makes the playoffs more often than not. Year before last he even caused a clusterfuck since he accepted someones infamous "my kicker for your best 3 players" gently caress off counter offer. (it was vetoed)
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Sep 7, 2016 22:00
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Spiros posted:Charles has much less wear on him but hes also a different kind of runner He does average ~75 less touches per ("healthy") season but he's also 30 and is coming off his second reconstructive surgery. I know ACLs aren't a huge deal anymore, but unless you're a freak like Peterson, they usually aren't a great thing when you're over 28, especially when it's the second time. And now he's having set-backs? All I'm saying is we've seen this song and dance before from a lot of guys and it very rarely works out in their favor. I think if you can get him in the 3rd as an "early" RB in a PPR zero RB strat (or at least near the 2/3 turn and then go WR/WR in 3/4), that's a gamble worth taking, but otherwise there's too much risk there for me to be too hot on his stock. I like Charles and I want to be wrong and I really hope that all my Charles bros get a top-3 RB but like
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Sep 7, 2016 22:02
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Leperflesh posted:
Everything else you have said here is correct but I genuinely am just a loving idiot with some of this. But it's also my second year "seriously" playing fantasy football. (I've played and abandoned teams off and on for years) I genuinely thought everyone had cooled on JC for the reasons listed above. And I don't follow KC in general. This was all stupid of me. Last year I lucked my way into the championship dragged by Brady and the Denver D. I'm not as confident in my team this year, but also gently caress RBs.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:04
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I drafted Charles and Foster. I guess in my mind they will come back with surgically enhanced robot legs or something.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:05
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RCarr posted:Someone people just like to trade. There's a guy in my league who never makes the playoffs yet sends 20+ trade offers a day. We had a guy like that my dynasty league. Pretty smart player & drafter and won the first couple of seasons due to that. Then I took over the league and started replacing all random fucktards and dgaf's the previous LM had recruited with people who knew how to do smart trades- and more importantly, when to say no and end negotiations. After that he claimed our league wasn't fun any more and quit. To this day, the remainder of us from those days joke about demanding a first round pick in exchange for Roman Harper.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:08
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Teemu Pokemon posted:He does average ~75 less touches per ("healthy") season but he's also 30 and is coming off his second reconstructive surgery. I know ACLs aren't a huge deal anymore, but unless you're a freak like Peterson, they usually aren't a great thing when you're over 28, especially when it's the second time. And now he's having set-backs? All I'm saying is we've seen this song and dance before from a lot of guys and it very rarely works out in their favor. I think if you can get him in the 3rd as an "early" RB in a PPR zero RB strat (or at least near the 2/3 turn and then go WR/WR in 3/4), that's a gamble worth taking, but otherwise there's too much risk there for me to be too hot on his stock. You keep saying the second time like it was the same knee. Then again you called the Chiefs a poo poo team with a poo poo coach so I'm thinking you don't really know much about the subject. For instance, "set-backs". He has not had anything of the kind.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:17
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I have the worst kind of trader in my main league: the guy who always overvalues his players and undervalues yours. He'll start a trade discussion and when you inevitably try to work the trade back toward your favor because he wants your second best player for his bench scraps, he gets pissed at you for "wasting his time"
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Sep 7, 2016 22:18
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Dynasty Question, I'm debating moving on from ASJ, just don't seem him ever becoming the hit as once hyped. The best available are: Jesse James Vance McDonald and probably Virgil Green as a stash I currently have Kelce and Julius Thomas, so is it even worth a third TE or should I just look for something else on the waiver? 25 man roster MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 22:18
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Teemu Pokemon posted:He does average ~75 less touches per ("healthy") season but he's also 30 and is coming off his second reconstructive surgery. I know ACLs aren't a huge deal anymore, but unless you're a freak like Peterson, they usually aren't a great thing when you're over 28, especially when it's the second time. And now he's having set-backs? All I'm saying is we've seen this song and dance before from a lot of guys and it very rarely works out in their favor. I think if you can get him in the 3rd as an "early" RB in a PPR zero RB strat (or at least near the 2/3 turn and then go WR/WR in 3/4), that's a gamble worth taking, but otherwise there's too much risk there for me to be too hot on his stock. I don't see anywhere that said he's having setbacks, just Reid dragging his feet on status updates. Again, this is pretty much the same schedule as every other ACL recovery we've seen in recent years. Todd Gurley tore his around the same calendar time Charles did and missed just two weeks (with a very brief cameo in Week 3) before being unleashed. And just on a subjective level, I believe Charles is every bit the generational talent Peterson is, so I'm more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than others.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:20
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Also, spending a year recovering from an injury (or being suspended) actually reduces the amount of wear and tear a player takes over a career. Like, that's a year of rest, you know? Obviously with the injury there's a conditioning question, but Charles has already proven in the past that he comes back from a long-term injury recovery in good condition, so I don't think that's in question now. To me the more pressing issue is that Ware has proven he's a very good running back, and given Charles' value to the team, Andy Reid has a strong incentive to start reducing Charles' overall snaps. Reid might not do that, but if he does, Charles could drop in value. Still an RB1 I think, but maybe more like "somewhere in the top 12" than "somewhere in the top four" like he has been when healthy.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:27
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I think it's safe to say the single most efficient runner in nfl history is a freak capable of returning from an injury, especially one he had already recovered from in the past.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:28
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I'm sitting my studs cause they're suspended
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Sep 7, 2016 22:28
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JCharles is pretty good at football. Sorry just needed to serve up a hot take.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:29
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kiimo posted:You keep saying the second time like it was the same knee. Then again you called the Chiefs a poo poo team with a poo poo coach so I'm thinking you don't really know much about the subject. For instance, "set-backs". He has not had anything of the kind. Going from "by all accounts will be ready to start the season as late as mid-August" to "will probably miss the first game" is the literal definition of a set-back as in his full recovery timetable has been "set back" from where it originally was. All this very likely can mean that he is not as healthy as we think he is. I've had ACL surgery and it actually increases your odds of getting hurt in the future. Tons of people with ACL repairs tear the other knee. It affects how you run, how you walk, how you do a lot of stuff and when you're a professional athlete, you're usually a creature of habit and all it takes is that one hitch to change everything. It doesn't matter that it was the other knee, it matters that he's hurt both, at an (NFL-relative) advanced age, and that one was very likely a result of the other which really doesn't bode well for his future. Leperflesh posted:Still an RB1 I think, but maybe more like "somewhere in the top 12" than "somewhere in the top four" like he has been when healthy. Before y'all start lighting the torches, know that I literally just said this. I'm just trying to fully illustrate the risk involved, because like I said, I feel like that's largely been ignored and that's strange to me. Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 22:30
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The only things I'm worried about with JC are his super talented backups and if he lost some of his top end speed which is a big part of his game imo
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Sep 7, 2016 22:34
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That's not what a setback is. Athletes use "setbacks" to refer to re-injury or re-aggravation during the recovery process. It's not the revision of the initial recovery estimate (which is necessarily inexact). You can have an unexpectedly long recovery without any setbacks.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:35
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We can argue semantics until Andy Reid uses all of his timeouts, but in just want to point out thatForever_Peace posted:You can have an unexpectedly long recovery without any setbacks. This is just as dangerous and important when assessing risk. If he's not as healthy or ready as we think and/or have been led to believe, that's usually not a good sign. It could be nothing, or it could be everything. I just think that it's weird that he's 30, has had two surgeries, is taking (slightly) longer than previously thought, and nobody cares
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Sep 7, 2016 22:38
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Teemu Pokemon posted:Going from "by all accounts will be ready to start the season as late as mid-August" to "will probably miss the first game" is the literal definition of a set-back as in his full recovery timetable has been "set back" from where it originally was. All this very likely can mean that he is not as healthy as we think he is. That is not what a setback is. Saying a recovery time is 6-12 months on an injury and we're coming up on week 1 and he's not quite there yet isn't a "set back" I don't care if it "sets back" the original shot in the dark timetable. A setback is an actual medical problem with your recovery. Jamaal has not had a setback. Also it is WAY WORSE to injure the same knee twice.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:39
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