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Jimbot posted:Same here. There are some great audio cues to indicate that Bruce is having a nightmare. Yeah, you can hear the sound of the gravity engine from MoS every single time he's dreaming or having visions. BvS is the first time where I really truly feel out of touch with "mainstream" audiences. All of the things that people say are problems (Batman's arc, Bruce's visions, etc.) are things that I really enjoy.  All these punk kids need to get off my lawn!
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Sep 9, 2016 04:19
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computer parts posted:Yeah, BvS couldn't stand up to So is your argument that every comic ever written is terrible? That some comics are bad? I don't understand why you even posted this. Equeen posted:Dreams being visions of the future is not a new thing in fiction, my dude. No, it's not. I never said it was. Violator posted:Yeah, you can hear the sound of the gravity engine from MoS every single time he's dreaming or having visions. This is awesome
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Sep 9, 2016 04:23
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loving hell Jesse Eisenberg sucked in BvS. I hope he doesn't come back.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:28
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think that Flash traveling through time is what gave him the vision. Well there's your problem right there - In order for your reading to work, you literally have to reverse the order of events, because this is more logical to you and fits in better with your projection of how BvS is supposed to operate as a "franchise film": Logically, the Flash breaks the space-time barrier, which spontaneously causes Bruce Wayne to have an apocalyptic vision of the future. But that's not what the film depicts - You've merely taken the superficial content of the sequence and arranged it backwards so that it fits what you already believe, which is that the relationship between Bruce Wayne and the Flash is more important than the relationship between Bruce Wayne and his vision of the Superman. This is rooted in a more fundamental problem, which is that you see dreams as "random bullshit," basically. Now, if something a character dreams pans out in a relevant thematic or dramatic sense, that's not random at all! That's prophecy! That's silly, because you've somehow convinced yourself that character's subjective is somehow removed from the progression of time and action, that Bruce is merely this objective agent being pushed along like a chess piece. But the vision is not profuse in metaphor so that Bruce will be forced to act, just like Oedipus doesn't kill his father and marry his mother because the Oracle said it would happen.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:37
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I just remembered A. The pro-Batman political cartoon in the police station and B. Batman owns the newspaper that most likely published it
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Sep 9, 2016 04:39
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:loving hell Jesse Eisenberg sucked in BvS. I hope he doesn't come back. He's deliberately acting like that. You only really see him act himself at the end when he faces Batman in the prison and the creation scene or when he get's kind of angry. Batman pretends to be Bruce Wayne, Superman pretends to be Clark Kent, Lex Luthor pretends to be this eccentric billionaire.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:41
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K. Waste posted:But that's not what the film depicts - You've merely taken the superficial content of the sequence and arranged it backwards so that it fits what you already believe, which is that the relationship between Bruce Wayne and the Flash is more important than the relationship between Bruce Wayne and his vision of the Superman. Here's how I came to my conclusion: -Sequence opens to a giant Omega symbol on the ground. This is referencing Darkseid, something Batman has no previous knowledge of. -Batman is overpowered by what appears to be parademons, an alien he has never seen before or knows exists. -Superman's dialogue: "She was my world. You took her from me." This is referencing Lois Lane, something Batman has no previous knowledge of. -Flash's dialogue: "It's Lois Lane! She's the key!"
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Sep 9, 2016 04:52
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:No, it's not. I never said it was. It's kind of pedantic to then correct someone by saying it wasn't a dream sequence. It was a dream sequence but also a prophetic vision of the future. I sort've get your point that it wasn't just 'random rear end poo poo' but most fictional dream sequences are highly figurative and tell us things that even the characters themselves don't know, and I don't think this was any exception.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:52
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Guy A. Person posted:It's kind of pedantic to then correct someone by saying it wasn't a dream sequence. It was a dream sequence but also a prophetic vision of the future. I sort've get your point that it wasn't just 'random rear end poo poo' but most fictional dream sequences are highly figurative and tell us things that even the characters themselves don't know, and I don't think this was any exception. I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent. I've always just considered dreams and visions to be two almost opposite things. To say something is a vision and a dream just didn't make sense to me. It's a silly thing for me to argue, I apologize.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:56
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:So is your argument that every comic ever written is terrible? That some comics are bad? I don't understand why you even posted this. I mean obviously comics are high quality productions, and adherence to canon only strengthens that quality.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:59
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Here's how I came to my conclusion: There's nobody named Darkside in the movie. The omega symbol and demons are a reference to the bible. "She was my world" refers to Superman's mom, Martha. You might recall that Batman was 'letting them kill Martha', until Lois intervened. Unlike in the stylized and surreal dream sequence, Flashman actually is a literal character in the movie. There's footage of him. He knows about Lois and Martha because he's a teleporting time-traveler guy. Future films might recontextualize this information for their own purposes, but those films haven't been released yet.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:03
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Omega: symbol of DarkseidTM. Yo, Joe, I got this dream I had about corn-eating-corn, what does that mean? Well, clearly, Pharaoh, it means that you're gonna have killer plants on your hands. edit: Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea for my big bug movie.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:12
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:To say something is a vision and a dream just didn't make sense to me. Then you are not very well versed in the language of fiction.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:15
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It's also another reference to Arthurian legend when the dolorous stroke occurs or rather the use of the holy lance dooms the kingdom and Arthur falls ill when Arthur falls ill the land suffers ( this isn't actually in th legend the whole king and the land are one are from the film Excalibur, but Snyder I guess treats that film as a definitve source for Arthurian legend anyway the real person in legend that suffers is the Fisher King not Arthur, but anyway the idea that the king and the land are intertwined is part of Arthurian Legend). Arthur is injured spiritually and his land suffers) Superman/Batman both represent Arthur each embodying some aspects of him. The land becomes a literal wasteland because Superman is spiritually ill ( this is again from the film Excalibur not actual Arthurian legend, but whatever). Also, Visions are a super huge part of Arthurian literature specifically the idea that the King dreams his death. They're also almost always preceded as well by a messenger in this case The Flash, who is basically loving Hermes the messenger of the Gods. I should probably rewatch BvS. Sorry, I've been rereading a lot of Arthurian stuff lately. Edit: Oh I should mention that the Grail doesn't really have as much importance as the Holy Lance in Arthurian legend. Also, Alfred's basically Merlin type character. I actually don't think Superman is a stand in for Christ figure in Snyder's movies but instead Arthur. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 05:16
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K. Waste posted:Omega: symbol of DarkseidTM. His eyes shoot something called an Omega beam which does something to people called the Omega effect. This is because during his comic origin, he was imbued with the Omega Force. Come on, man. The moment I saw that symbol I thought "Oh poo poo, Darkseid" mr. stefan posted:Then you are not very well versed in the language of fiction. Good thing that's not a pre-requisite to post
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Sep 9, 2016 05:24
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The Omega symbol is a symbol that signifies the end. Revelation 22:13 ; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 05:28
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Hollismason posted:The Omega symbol is a symbol that signifies the end. It's from the bible " I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. " I'm pretty sure Batman predates the Bible now in the DC universe.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:29
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Violator posted:Yeah, you can hear the sound of the gravity engine from MoS every single time he's dreaming or having visions.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:29
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computer parts posted:I'm pretty sure Batman predates the Bible now in the DC universe. I think he actually does. In Final Crisis he is hit with the Omega Beams and thrown back and reborn in Caveman times. I dunno if that is still the case as I stopped reading DC because it's kind of hot garbage excepting a few books.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:33
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:His eyes shoot something called an Omega beam which does something to people called the Omega effect. This is because during his comic origin, he was imbued with the Omega Force. Come on, man. The moment I saw that symbol I thought "Oh poo poo, Darkseid" Well, again, the problem was never that you got things in the right order. You see the Omega symbol and think, "Oh, yeah, that's a reference to Darkseid," as opposed to realizing that Darkseid is actually a reference to the Omega symbol. He's a metaphoric personification of the concept of apocalypse. What you're exercising here is commodity fetishism. What matters is not Bruce Wayne's relationship to the Omega symbol, him emerging from the barren Earth and looking out over what lies ahead of him - what matters is the relationship of the Batman trademark to the Darkseid trademark. edit: The film does not associate the Omega symbol with Darkseid. The film associates the symbol with a truck which is revealed to be a "Trojan horse" against Batman, carrying a literal green lantern. The space bugs spring their trap on the Batman, having cleverly disguised themselves as... anti-Nazis, or something. K. Waste fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 05:38
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K. Waste posted:Omega: symbol of DarkseidTM. Make it a prequel to the Them reboot, where instead of exposure to radiation, the ants are exposed to genetically engineered crops.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:50
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Schwarzwald posted:Make it a prequel to the Them reboot, where instead of exposure to radiation, the ants are exposed to genetically engineered crops. Actually, my big bug movie is already a spiritual sequel to Them! But what I'm thinking now is that it would be really great if one of the characters is someone who, like, claimed to have a prophetic dream of the bugs, but has since become kind of a defrocked psychic.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:54
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:List of great Geoff Johns comics that I have personally read, purely off the top of my head: This is not a Geoff Johns comic, my dude. Bruce Waynes: Murderer? and Fugitive were both the brainchildren of Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker, with Devin Grayson and a couple other line writers taken along for the ride. I bring this up not to be a pedant, but because of the content of those two story arcs. The Batman in those stories is a Batman that commits sustained emotional (and at one point physical) abuse against his kids (the teenaged/early 20s sidekicks). Perhaps the most point-missing, ridiculous Batman comics moment in the past thirty years is Batman throwing the first Robin through the creepy display case he's set up for the dead second Robin for the crime of "grabbing Batman's shoulder as he walked away, having refused multiple times to answer point blank whether or not he killed a woman he was seeing in cold blood." You see, he didn't tell his kids he was innocent, because he wanted to make sure they had unshakable faith in their commanding officer. He was subjecting his children to a loyalty test. Now, of course he didn't kill that woman. Lex Luthor did, via an assassin; Batman's revenge on the assassin was to beat him in front of his daughter, then take his daughter away to become the new Batgirl. He let the guy live to see his kid come up as part of Batman's family, not his. That incarnation of Batman, who a bunch of people revere because he does not kill, is five to ten times the monster that bitter old Batfleck is.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:56
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Schwarzwald posted:Make it a prequel to the Them reboot, where instead of exposure to radiation, the ants are exposed to genetically engineered crops. That's basically The Beginning of the End
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Sep 9, 2016 05:57
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Crion posted:This is not a Geoff Johns comic, my dude. Bruce Waynes: Murderer? and Fugitive were both the brainchildren of Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker, with Devin Grayson and a couple other line writers taken along for the ride. My mistake, evidently he just has a writing credit in Volume 3 of Bruce Wayne: Fugitive. I should have known, since Bruce Wayne: Fugitive was actually the first Trade Paperback I ever read. It's every bit as awesome as you described edit: Wait were you making GBS threads on Bruce Wayne: Fugitive? Aw
SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 06:01
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:My mistake, evidently he just has a writing credit in Volume 3 of Bruce Wayne: Fugitive. I should have known, since Bruce Wayne: Fugitive was actually the first Trade Paperback I ever read. It's every bit as awesome as you described God drat.
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Sep 9, 2016 06:04
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K. Waste posted:What you're exercising here is commodity fetishism. What matters is not Bruce Wayne's relationship to the Omega symbol, him emerging from the barren Earth and looking out over what lies ahead of him - what matters is the relationship of the Batman trademark to the Darkseid trademark. This is one of the intended reactions to the scene. The fact that Snyder tries to do a little more with it than Marvel does doesn't really take away from that.
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Sep 9, 2016 06:09
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:My mistake, evidently he just has a writing credit in Volume 3 of Bruce Wayne: Fugitive. I should have known, since Bruce Wayne: Fugitive was actually the first Trade Paperback I ever read. It's every bit as awesome as you described
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Sep 9, 2016 06:11
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:
I dunno dude, do you usually read "commits sustained emotional (and at one point physical) abuse against his kids" as a ringing endorsement
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Sep 9, 2016 06:19
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Crion posted:I dunno dude, do you usually read "commits sustained emotional (and at one point physical) abuse against his kids" as a ringing endorsement I thought it was an interesting story  Heroes with flaws and poo poo.
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Sep 9, 2016 06:35
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So since it's sort of Comic Book Movie News the Cast of the Justice League assembled to speak out about the Dakota Access Pipeline. http://www.cbr.com/justice-league-cast-assembles-to-oppose-dakota-access-pipeline/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TSItZl9C4Q The thing is I can't get over the fact that Jason Momoa just isn't wearing a shirt. Like every one else is fine, but he specifically was like "Yea, just not gonna put a shirt on for this. Also, Ezra wear a bath robe so I won't look weird". It looks like they took the video during a slumber party. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 06:53
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gently caress that, if I was built like Momoa I wouldn't even own shirts.
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Sep 9, 2016 07:43
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:One of them is seeing the future, the other is random rear end poo poo in your brain. Are you being serious with this? This is the materialist interpretation of dreams; but visions of the future violate causality and are literally the least possible thing from a materialist perspective. There has been speculation that certain particles might violate causality, but this proved an artifact of other interesting behaviour of certain elements of quantum physics. In principle, empirical observation could supercede this, but that is true of literally anything. In any paradigm in which visions of the future are a thing, they occur as what a materialist would call "random rear end poo poo in your brain." The Oracle of Delphi is explained as such as the result of hallucinations due to exposure to gasses leaking from underground. This is simply a means of inducing a form of dream. Superheroes so not exist in a strictly materialist universe. Bruce Wayne has a prophetic dream because a demigod modeled on Hermes, messenger of the Gods, visited him. He lives in a world in which Zeus is real, and interacts directly with a woman he literally shaped from clay. He is planning on fighting and killing a god.
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Sep 9, 2016 08:16
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K. Waste posted:Actually, my big bug movie is already a spiritual sequel to Them! But what I'm thinking now is that it would be really great if one of the characters is someone who, like, claimed to have a prophetic dream of the bugs, but has since become kind of a defrocked psychic. I'm assuming the character was previously well respected in the psychic community before their controversial "big bug" prediction lead to them being shunned.
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Sep 9, 2016 09:31
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I thought it was an interesting story My brain just loving broke when I read this. You want Batman with flaws, but you don't want Batman with the flaws in BvS - you want Batman with specific flaws.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:27
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TetsuoTW posted:gently caress that, if I was built like Momoa I wouldn't even own shirts. I wouldnt own clothes.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:42
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SpiritOfLenin posted:My brain just loving broke when I read this. You want Batman with flaws, but you don't want Batman with the flaws in BvS - you want Batman with specific flaws. Specific flaws like "abusing his adopted son" and "beating up someone in front of their kid". Flaws anyone can relate to!
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Sep 9, 2016 13:41
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Equeen posted:Specific flaws like "abusing his adopted son" and "beating up someone in front of their kid". Flaws anyone can relate to! At least he's not a murderer!
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Sep 9, 2016 13:57
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TetsuoTW posted:At least he's not a murderer! It's his one rule...
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Sep 9, 2016 14:03
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I just hope the Justice League has more scenes of the military being owned by aliens because that's still the best part of MoS.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:21
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