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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This is fascinating. What you're talking about is resignation before suicide. This Batman is a hosed up dude. You know, I'd never thought about that angle on The Killing Joke, but it totally works.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:58
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Hodgepodge posted:You know, I'd never thought about that angle on The Killing Joke, but it totally works. It's part of why he simply doesn't stop being Batman and do something productive with his time. You could say it's hack writing but there's been like 80 years of psychological post hoc rationalizations attributed to the character, and the further they take it from carefree absurdism it's like you're talking about BTK or something. If he retires, he dies. If he realizes he's wrong, he dies. Worse, it's suicide. It's a fantasy about becoming a monster. Deeper and deeper...
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Sep 10, 2016 17:03
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cvnvcnv posted:Utterly incorrect and inaccurate. My intention is to suss out wether a gun can be just a gun, a cigar a cigar, etc. I didn't say anything about penises you weirdo. The natural conclusion to the struggle is the final unloading into the mouth, with a gun. It's a simple tactical decision. The hard, metal barrel can be used to gently or forcefully nudge the lips apart, so you can get a clear shot at the underside of the brain. Batman desires this tactical solution - is deeply fearful and ashamed of his desire (to face-gently caress Joker with a gun (not his penis)).
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Sep 10, 2016 17:03
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cvnvcnv posted:There's no ducking, dodging, or getting away. Inescapable finality with nothing left to chance. You could do all that without forcibly sticking it down someone's mouth, which is an explicitly evocative image. Also you still haven't addressed the idea that feeding another adult is often used in movies with a sexual subtext.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:03
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KVeezy3 posted:You could do all that without forcibly sticking it down someone's mouth, which is an explicitly evocative image. Also you still haven't addressed the idea that feeding another adult is often used in movies with a sexual subtext. Can be sexual. It's more 'profoundly intimate'.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's part of why he simply doesn't stop being Batman and do something productive with his time. You could say it's hack writing but there's been like 80 years of psychological post hoc rationalizations attributed to the character, and the further they take it from carefree absurdism it's like you're talking about BTK or something. If he retires, he dies. If he realizes he's wrong, he dies. Worse, it's suicide. It's a fantasy about becoming a monster. Deeper and deeper... I mean, if he stops being Batman in order to really be Bruce Wayne, that would be killing Batman. Like an inversion of the part of Miracleman where Micky Moran commits suicide by saying "kimota" one last time and never changing back into his mundane self.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:13
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Can be sexual. It's more 'profoundly intimate'. 
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Sep 10, 2016 17:16
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I want to see the next film incarnation of Batman as this concept: Bruce only dresses up as Batman to act as private security for Wayne Enterprises holdings. He chases some crooks off of Wayne property and sees a violent mugging happening across the street. Just shrugs his shoulders and goes back inside the gate. He's not getting involved; not his problem, not his jurisdiction. The entire film is just full of situations that we as the audience would say, "Batman ought to do something about that..." and almost in response Bruce would just take a deep breath and go, "Nope..."
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Sep 10, 2016 17:25
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If a gun is a penis, and shooting one bullet is enough to finish the job, then what batman fears most is the joker recognizing him as a one pump chump.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:31
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I think the issue (not really an issue, though) is that all this talk is highly sexualized and reduced to that, when there's much more play regarding ego. Like, there's no way that's sexual. Or maybe a surface reading of that set of images. It's highly intimate, though. Being mugged is intimate. Lex doesn't want that dude to suck his dick. Lex views this guy as nothing. He's played him, tempted him, the Devil to the dude's Eve. Lex treats him like a child. That utter dominance and "i'm giving you this so now you give me [x]", same when he offers Holly Hunter a drink in his Dad's room before she denies him the permit. Lex is thrown of. He's frustrated - she's not playing the game, does she think she's his equal? Sure, you can say the red jolly rancher getting pushed into the dude's mouth is symbolic of Lex's mushroom tip being shoved inthere or whatever, but it's such a reductionist attempt that it disservices the interplay.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:46
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Uh, again, I did not say anything about penises. That's just a cherry jolly rancher.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:54
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Thanks to Death of the Author I can think of everything as a penis. Except an actual penis, which is a gun.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:54
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SMG is an advanced chatbot that has a 100% OCR error rate.
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Sep 10, 2016 18:20
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Something is very plainly wrong with comic book fans here. Bruce Wayne wants to gently caress Joker in the face with a loaded handgun. He says this. And then Alfred asserts that Wayne is not psychologically capable of actually doing this (i.e. "you're not a killer"). It seems really straightforward: Alfred is saying that Bruce Wayne is not the type to face-gently caress a person with a handgun. That's what he means by "a killer." The meaning is based on the context. But then you get these bizarre non-interpretations. Alfred's opinion is taken as an objective fact: Wayne objectively cannot kill anything. And all forms of killing are taken as objectively the same. Accidentally knocking Joker off a ledge, or having him sentenced to death after a fair trial, would be equally (objectively) bad as facefucking him with a loaded handgun. And then, in order to defend this 'objectivist' approach, fanspeople dredge up these weird strawmen based on popular misconceptions about Barthes (circa 1967) and Freud (~1900s). Nobody said anything about Barthes or Freud; that's stuff from over 50 years ago. Where did they come from? The idea appears to be that being sufficiently dismissive of "Freud" will cause Alfred's subjective opinion to turn into objective fact. The goal is to attack the idea of subjectivity itself by evoking the figure of "Freud", locating/isolating 'psychology' inside the figure of "Freud", and then destroying "Freud". 'No-killing' is rendered apsychological. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 18:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Something is very plainly wrong with comic book fans here. Well, is it objective fact or is just characterization for the two? Batman frets about whether or not he might be a face-fucker, which makes sense because Batman frets all the time. Alfred meanwhile asserts that he isn't a face-fucker because he believes in the Platonic Ideal of Batman and expects Batman to live up to it. Fans really shouldn't take it as objective fact when it's characterization though.
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Sep 10, 2016 18:43
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HIJK posted:Well, is it objective fact or is just characterization for the two? Batman frets about whether or not he might be a face-fucker, which makes sense because Batman frets all the time. Alfred meanwhile asserts that he isn't a face-fucker because he believes in the Platonic Ideal of Batman and expects Batman to live up to it. The thing is that Alfred is not talking about a platonic ideal. He's not even talking about Batman. Wayne has his mask off, and Alfred is addressing him as 'Sir' - as Master Wayne. We're shown Alfred's prespective, where Wayne is all hunched over and sad. Note the mild disdain in "whatever else you may be...". Alfred's saying that 'your Batman thing is some hosed-up poo poo, but you're not that hosed up'. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 18:53
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Ryan Potter (from Big Hero 6) really wants to be Tim Drake for the new Batman movie. He even put out an "audition" video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsdwfSxgTP4
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Sep 10, 2016 18:57
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We will see Bat-Mite in a live action Batman movie before we ever see Tim Drake.
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Sep 10, 2016 19:02
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Pretty nice trailer to promote the DCEU in Japan It never registered that Harley's bat said "Good Night" before, and now I can't stop thinking of Harley and Joker as darlings of the alt-right/neo-Nazis.
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Sep 10, 2016 19:15
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Pretty nice trailer to promote the DCEU in Japan Nice trailer!
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Sep 10, 2016 19:24
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Equilibrium posted:We will see Bat-Mite in a live action Batman movie before we ever see Tim Drake. How is Tim Drake, of all characters, untranslatable to film? Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Pretty nice trailer to promote the DCEU in Japan Wow, this is the LAST place I would expect to see an actual timeline for the DCEU. Equeen fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 19:26
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Tim Drake specifically isn't untranslatable to film, especially if you're willing to alter his origin story a bit not to rely on previous Robins. It's that the concept of teenage sidekicks don't really fit the modern major studio superhero aesthetic. They're certainly not required for their original, intended purpose (attracting a particular demographic as customers). Frankly, sidekicks barely work in comics as it is, and only that well because the age of the sidekicks has been creeping up into the 18-20 year old range, rather than the original 14-16. Being serious in your examination of superheroics means you have to be similarly serious about the implications and consequences of an adult allowing and encouraging a child to dress up and attack people alongside him. Crion fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 19:38
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You can easily age Drake up, he just won't be used in a movie because there other Robins are worth more money and he's third in line. If he's used in any movie ever though, it will be a Affleck one since Jason Todd seems to have already happened.
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Sep 10, 2016 20:49
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Crion posted:Tim Drake specifically isn't untranslatable to film, especially if you're willing to alter his origin story a bit not to rely on previous Robins. It's that the concept of teenage sidekicks don't really fit the modern major studio superhero aesthetic. They're certainly not required for their original, intended purpose (attracting a particular demographic as customers).
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Sep 10, 2016 20:59
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Hodgepodge posted:I mean, if he stops being Batman in order to really be Bruce Wayne, that would be killing Batman. Like an inversion of the part of Miracleman where Micky Moran commits suicide by saying "kimota" one last time and never changing back into his mundane self. Well yeah, that's why Christian Bale has to fake his death with a nuke so he can go clubbing. He can't just stop being Batman. That grandiosity is necessary.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:02
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Tim Drake is filmable. It's just that the other 3 Robins have a lot more going for them. Dick was the first and he's had the full arc of growing up and becoming his own man. Jason is known for dying and coming back as the Punisher. Damien is the biological son o Batman and the grandchild of the leader of an organization ecoterrorist ninjas. Tim is..? Even the comics are struggling to figure out what to do with him at the moment. Yeah, he doesn't take poo poo from Batman as someone above me posted, but none of the other Robins do either because 99 percent of Batman and Robin stories are "Don't go there/fight that man, Robin" then Robin rebelling and going there and fighting than man. Tim's drama is that he has no drama.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:18
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Detective No. 27 posted:Tim Drake is filmable. It's just that the other 3 Robins have a lot more going for them. Dick was the first and he's had the full arc of growing up and becoming his own man. Jason is known for dying and coming back as the Punisher. Damien is the biological son o Batman and the grandchild of the leader of an organization ecoterrorist ninjas. Tim is..? BTAS did some interesting stuff with Tim Drake but they also changed his backstory up a little for that so...I dunno.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:22
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HIJK posted:BTAS did some interesting stuff with Tim Drake but they also changed his backstory up a little for that so...I dunno. That version was Jason Todd with Tim's name, so yeah.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:24
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Has an actor releasing an "Audition Tape" ever like, not just been kinda embarassing
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Sep 10, 2016 21:26
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Tim Drake was my favorite Robin until Damien showed up, forcibly took then mantle and did everything better. And yeah, BTAS Tim was just rebranded Jason Todd where he grows up to become a TV repair man instead of the Punisher.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:27
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Hat Thoughts posted:Has an actor releasing an "Audition Tape" ever like, not just been kinda embarassing I read "audition tape" and "embarrassing" and it reminded me of Chris Klein's audition for Mamma Mia! and immediately made me cringe just from memory.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:33
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He should show up on set and harass Ben Affleck like that one actress did to Tim Burton for Catwoman.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:34
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Tim Drakes thing is how he has to lie to his dad and then eventually his dad finds out he's Robin and in the end reluctantly accepts it. Then he gets killed as Tim and Batman race to the scene. It was by far the best part of Identity Crisis. There's a moment where Tim is scared to death and says to Batman, "Please save my dad" and Batman just gives him this look of sheer helplessness as his literal worst fear is playing out in front of his eyes. It was really awesome.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:54
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Tim Drakes thing is how he has to lie to his dad and then eventually his dad finds out he's Robin and in the end reluctantly accepts it. Then he gets killed as Tim and Batman race to the scene. It was by far the best part of Identity Crisis. There's a moment where Tim is scared to death and says to Batman, "Please save my dad" and Batman just gives him this look of sheer helplessness as his literal worst fear is playing out in front of his eyes. It was really awesome. I don't know how you'd trip over that bar when it's halfway embedded in the ground, but please be careful.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:57
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Hat Thoughts posted:Has an actor releasing an "Audition Tape" ever like, not just been kinda embarassing no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IbC1Ve5kBM&t=381s
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Sep 10, 2016 22:00
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greatn posted:You can easily age Drake up, he just won't be used in a movie because there other Robins are worth more money and he's third in line. If he's used in any movie ever though, it will be a Affleck one since Jason Todd seems to have already happened. I doubt they'll be aging any sidekicks up soon, either, unless they're specifically trying to invoke the legacy of the Schumacher films. The most likely thing (commercially) would be an approach somewhat like Nolan's to JGL's "Robin," where he's a character that actively does stuff in the film, but never puts on a costume or takes a codename, in order to test the waters for easing him in during a sequel. Artistically, I'd be interested but nervous to see what Affleck would do with just, the actual teenage sidekick concept. SolidSnakesBandana posted:Tim Drakes thing is how he has to lie to his dad and then eventually his dad finds out he's Robin and in the end reluctantly accepts it. Then he gets killed as Tim and Batman race to the scene. It was by far the best part of Identity Crisis. There's a moment where Tim is scared to death and says to Batman, "Please save my dad" and Batman just gives him this look of sheer helplessness as his literal worst fear is playing out in front of his eyes. It was really awesome. Ugh. Detective No. 27 posted:Tim Drake is filmable. It's just that the other 3 Robins have a lot more going for them. Dick was the first and he's had the full arc of growing up and becoming his own man. Jason is known for dying and coming back as the Punisher. Damien is the biological son o Batman and the grandchild of the leader of an organization ecoterrorist ninjas. Tim is..? In the comics, Tim spent most of his time as Robin as a mouthpiece for whatever problem writer Chuck Dixon had with teenagers these days or the Clinton administration. Dixon's long tenure on the book is full of stuff like Robin parachuting into not-Bosnia to resolve the conflict with good ol' American know-how; Robin finding his first girlfriend waiting for him half-naked in bed when he comes home from superhero-ing, telling her to get dressed, and marching her right back to her father for discipline; and Robin persuading his second girlfriend, the superhero Spoiler, not to have an abortion when she finds out her ex-boyfriend got her pregnant, but instead give the kid up for adoption. In between, Robin spends time fighting really bad inner city gang supervillain caricatures (while working with a token Noble Articulate Black Man, the superhero Orpheus, who takes his name from Greek mythology because gently caress if Dixon and his crew had any other background to draw from) and thinly-veiled Cold Warrior bullshit like KGBeast and NKVDemon. Dixon, you'll recall, is the same writer who had Dick Grayson literally become a cop -- not to expose corruption in the ranks, but because he thought that was the best way to serve the people of Bludhaven. (If there are those unfamiliar, there was a city called Bludhaven in the DC Comics universe. Might have been mentioned offhand in one of the Nolan films. Another one of Dixon's creations, it's basically white suburbia's terror about the inner cities writ large, and roughly corresponds with Baltimore, given it's down the coast from Gotham and has an Inner Harbor. It got nuked at some point.) Dixon was a decent character writer for his time, but all his plots and themes were right-wing curmudgeon stuff, most of which is only relevant today in an oppositional reading. Even beyond the politics, the reason there's no iconic Tim Drake Robin story except for that execrable nonsense in Identity Crisis is because there are basically no good Tim Drake Robin stories period, just some good character writing done by other writers in the short period between when Chuck Dixon left the book and even worse conservative ideologue (not to mention writer) Bill Willingham picked it up and proceeded to humiliate and murder the entire supporting cast. So long story short, if Tim Drake was going to be in a movie, it'd basically just be the name and possibly the origin hung on a completely new character, and that'd be perfectly fine. Crion fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 22:07
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Sep 10, 2016 22:19
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Tim Drakes thing is how he has to lie to his dad and then eventually his dad finds out he's Robin and in the end reluctantly accepts it. Then he gets killed as Tim and Batman race to the scene. It was by far the best part of Identity Crisis. There's a moment where Tim is scared to death and says to Batman, "Please save my dad" and Batman just gives him this look of sheer helplessness as his literal worst fear is playing out in front of his eyes. It was really awesome. The appeal of Tim Drake was that unlike almost everyone else in the Batman family at the time he had no tragedy in his life and was just this really bright kid driven to do the right thing. His parents weren't dead and he wasn't brooding, he was just like "I figured out who Batman is and want to help". I'm not sure how to feel about the IC scene in light of that, but what I did hate was that it was a larger DCU story so you had to have the dumb "all 5 flashes and superman aren't answering their phones!" moment which undercut the whole thing. Robin tearing off his costume too was weird. I guess you could take at is him like desperately rejecting the Robin mantle if it meant losing his dad, but still weird in that kinda of story.
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Sep 10, 2016 22:30
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Crion posted:Ugh. So do you just hate-read comics or what?
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Sep 10, 2016 22:42
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Spider-man did hang out with Obama that one time          Detective No. 27 posted:He should show up on set and harass Ben Affleck like that one actress did to Tim Burton for Catwoman.
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