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MorgaineDax posted:https://twitter.com/MicaBurton/status/774668950487445504 They all look so young and full of hope.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:29
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, it really bugged me that they left so much unresolved. From the way Garrett was acting, she almost seemed suspicious. The standard retcon for Turnabout Intruder, which allows for Captain Hernandez of Archer's time and is corroborated in Embracing the Winds is that there are no female captains of Constitution Class Starships. There were only 12, so it's not a stretch. It's like saying the US Navy doesn't allow female captains of aircraft carriers because there are none (are there? I have no idea) but there could be dozens of captains of smaller ships.
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Sep 13, 2016 00:42
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Astroman posted:The standard retcon for Turnabout Intruder, which allows for Captain Hernandez of Archer's time and is corroborated in Embracing the Winds is that there are no female captains of Constitution Class Starships. There were only 12, so it's not a stretch. Which would still give her, if she were a little more stable, a good reason for her anger over being passed over for command. One could easily see that in TOS era Star Trek, Starfleet is a very patriarchal organization. So even if there is no rule, the way women are treated means it is pretty unlikely they would be given command.
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Sep 13, 2016 00:45
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Astroman posted:The standard retcon for Turnabout Intruder I thought the standard retcon for Turnabout Intruder was that she was just entirely delusional.
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Sep 13, 2016 00:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They all look so young and full of hope. Aaaaand now BBCA is showing Nemesis. 
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Sep 13, 2016 01:36
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Data Graham posted:Aaaaand now BBCA is showing Nemesis.  ___________________________/ "Well, at least Brent and I will continue to have careers after this."
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Sep 13, 2016 01:39
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Data Graham posted:Aaaaand now BBCA is showing Nemesis. They had to balance out all that TOS goodness somehow.
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Sep 13, 2016 01:44
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Big Mean Jerk posted:
Sort of. He did a bunch of guest spots, was on Enterprise for three episodes, had a 1 season show, his own show, half a season on another show, some more guest spots, looks like another TV show I've never heard of and then Independence Day. He is on Blunt Talk sometimes and looks like he'll be on more this upcoming season and that's good.
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Sep 13, 2016 01:47
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I'd be interested in reading a fuller account of the various tensions that emerged between the "stars" of the various series and their ensembles. I've heard that Shatner and Nemoy's endless competition for screen time is one of the main reasons why the rest of the cast (except for Kelly, sometimes) kept getting marginalized and I also remember being shocked to learn that Grace Lee Whitney was intended to have a much more prominent role in TOS (and was prominently featured in promotional materials) before she got marginalized, sexually assaulted, and then fired, but I still don't know how a lot of these conflicts played out in practice. I can actually understand why Shatner and Nimoy felt that it was important that they get the bulk of the screen time, because they were the stars and on some level they were right to insist that the movies be about them (although I think the "other four" were still got shamefully underused), because their characters were far more developed and, therefor, more compelling than the others and, egotism aside, there is some truth to the notion that they were the ones the fans would show up to see. They also may have just been better actors, though it's hard to tell because the others rarely got a chance to really show their chops. De Kelly is also an interesting figure because he managed to get plenty of screen time without ever being the "star" and doesn't seem to have been a jerk about the whole thing like the other two were. For the TNG cast, it's pretty different because Stewart and Spiner were part of a genuine ensemble and TNG had never been all about them. Data, in particular, was a significant character, but not the star of the show like Picard was, so it's weird that Spiner managed to carve out such a big role for himself in the movies. I mean, he may have been a bit more famous (and, arguably talented) than people like Frakes or Sirtis but they were all mostly known for being in TNG at that point and they'd all had fairly similar amounts of screen time. Plus LeVar Burton was more famous than any of them, so why wasn't he given higher billing? Was he busy? Or was it just a matter of Spiner getting some creative control and go crazy with it?
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Sep 13, 2016 02:28
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The TNG cast were practically a family from the very beginning, to the point that even in the first season they actually cried when Denise Crosby left. The Original Series' cast wasn't anything like it, though, to be fair, the hate was mostly directed at Shatner.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:35
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IIRC De Kelley did get irritated at the amount of fan mail and attention Shatner and Nimoy got, but he was placated with a pay raise and third billing from season 2 onwards.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:39
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Duckbag posted:I'd be interested in reading a fuller account of the various tensions that emerged between the "stars" of the various series and their ensembles. I've heard that Shatner and Nemoy's endless competition for screen time is one of the main reasons why the rest of the cast (except for Kelly, sometimes) kept getting marginalized Actually, both the supporting cast as well as the guest stars were / have always been quite vocal about how Nimoy was constantly fighting to get them more screen time and dialogue. It was Shatner who was rather infamous for saying things like, "So and so doesn't need to say that line, it's totally extraneous" (although he mellowed out more when it came time to do the movies; I guess living in a trailer park for the better part of the '70s taught him some humility).
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Sep 13, 2016 02:43
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Nichelle Nichols was going to leave, until MLK personally asked her not to.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:46
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Timby posted:Actually, both the supporting cast as well as the guest stars were / have always been quite vocal about how Nimoy was constantly fighting to get them more screen time and dialogue. It was Shatner who was rather infamous for saying things like, "So and so doesn't need to say that line, it's totally extraneous" (although he mellowed out more when it came time to do the movies; I guess living in a trailer park for the better part of the '70s taught him some humility). Trailer park? poo poo, at one point the Shat was living in his car!
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Sep 13, 2016 02:59
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I didn't know he fell on such hard times, what's the story there?
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Sep 13, 2016 03:07
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He was living in some trailer and some kid found him. He gave the kid a tour of his "star ship."
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Sep 13, 2016 03:08
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DeForest Kelley 
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Sep 13, 2016 03:12
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Baronjutter posted:I didn't know he fell on such hard times, what's the story there? No story, really. He just didn't do much after Star Trek and was a struggling actor who just divorced his wife.
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Sep 13, 2016 03:14
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The_Doctor posted:Bryan Fuller has said that Balance of Terror is 'a touchstone' for Discovery. Romulan War confirmed? Sarek, the Romulan Commander and Spock are George Senior, Oscar and Buster, respectively.
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Sep 13, 2016 03:15
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Big Mean Jerk posted:
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Sep 13, 2016 03:18
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Wikkheiser posted:I know Stewart is a big car buff. I wonder if when he signed on to do this movie, he attached a clause that stated he must drive a car really fast. Because he's Patrick Stewart gently caress you no car no movie. Jon Pertwee requested frequent fast car chases when he was the Doctor.
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Sep 13, 2016 03:21
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Cojawfee posted:He was living in some trailer and some kid found him. He gave the kid a tour of his "star ship." Like most things in Shatner's books that aren't direct quotes from the cast and crew, I would take that anecdote with a grain of salt.
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Sep 13, 2016 03:22
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Spiner is pretty good and creepy as gently caress in Outcast.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:15
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Somehow I never heard that Shat was living in a trailer or his car.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:16
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Rhyno posted:Somehow I never heard that Shat was living in a trailer or his car. He's told a story about how he was invited to the White House to see the president, but refused so he could see his kids the night. They were at a sleepover.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:19
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Rhyno posted:Somehow I never heard that Shat was living in a trailer or his car. He wasn't destitute or anything, but he was constantly on the road, traveling across the country for a stage show he did after Star Trek ended. Rather than shelling out for hotels, he bought some kind of screwy half-camper half-tent thing that folded up into the back of his pickup truck. He lived in that thing for a few months, maybe a year or so, usually deploying it in the parking lot of whatever theater he was appearing at that week. At least one local kid thought it looked like an Apollo Lunar Module. Shatner tells the whole story in either Star Trek Memories or Star Trek Movie Memories; I don't recall which.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:57
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Duckbag posted:I'd be interested in reading a fuller account of the various tensions that emerged between the "stars" of the various series and their ensembles. I've heard that Shatner and Nemoy's endless competition for screen time is one of the main reasons why the rest of the cast (except for Kelly, sometimes) kept getting marginalized and I also remember being shocked to learn that Grace Lee Whitney was intended to have a much more prominent role in TOS (and was prominently featured in promotional materials) before she got marginalized, sexually assaulted, and then fired, but I still don't know how a lot of these conflicts played out in practice. WTF? She got sexually assaulted and then fired? I thought she left or something.
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Sep 13, 2016 05:41
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Whitney was originally signed on as a star rather than a featured player, but her role kept getting reduced in rewrites until, in some episodes, she no longer appeared at all. A Desilu executive took advantage of this fact and told her that he thought her role, and her romance with Kirk, were important to the show and he wanted to talk to her about expanding it. He then invited her for drinks and flirted with her before sexually assaulting her. A week later, she learned that her role wasn't being expanded, but rather that she was to be fired, supposedly so that Kirk could have romances with guest stars without "cheating" on her. Whether the decision to fire her occurred before or after her assault isn't clear, but it's quite clear that the executive used the role's importance to her to prey on her. Whitney, a conservative christian from a different era, blamed herself and her alcoholism (which only got worse after her firing) for the incident and didn't go public with the story until she wrote a book years later and never named the man who preyed on her.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:24
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Astroman posted:The standard retcon for Turnabout Intruder, which allows for Captain Hernandez of Archer's time and is corroborated in Embracing the Winds is that there are no female captains of Constitution Class Starships. There were only 12, so it's not a stretch. That's not a stretch at all. There were a couple of references to the Constitutions being referred to as "starships", even though there were a bunch of other warp-drive ships in Starleet. And the current Vice Chief of Naval Operations is a woman who commanded one of the helicopter assault ships, and later a whole task force built around one. That's not one of the big fleet carriers, but it's close.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:31
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I've been avoiding this thread until I saw Beyond, which I finally did. I thought it was a good movie, I liked the Enterprise references that the plot was built on. I'm honestly amazed that they were able to have "the power of rock and roll" be the big superweapon and somehow make it work. I really wasn't expecting it to be good, but I was pleasantly surprised.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:36
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mllaneza posted:
Hell, those things displace more than most countries carriers anyhow! The USS Boxer is the 17th heaviest warship in the world and only four of the ones above it aren't American. And only one of those isn't a secondhand piece of ex-Soviet poo poo dusted off 20 years after they started putting it together (the Charles de Gaulle).
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Sep 13, 2016 07:03
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Was there ever a Trek story where the current cast 'caught up' to an older generation of traveller moving at a slower speed due to their limited technology when they left Earth? It seems familiar but i don't know if it's from Trek or not.
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Sep 13, 2016 11:15
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The Dark One posted:Sarek, the Romulan Commander and Spock are George Senior, Oscar and Buster, respectively. I don't care for Sybok. ______________\ 
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Sep 13, 2016 13:05
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Duckbag posted:Whitney was originally signed on as a star rather than a featured player, but her role kept getting reduced in rewrites until, in some episodes, she no longer appeared at all. A Desilu executive took advantage of this fact and told her that he thought her role, and her romance with Kirk, were important to the show and he wanted to talk to her about expanding it. He then invited her for drinks and flirted with her before sexually assaulting her. A week later, she learned that her role wasn't being expanded, but rather that she was to be fired, supposedly so that Kirk could have romances with guest stars without "cheating" on her. Whether the decision to fire her occurred before or after her assault isn't clear, but it's quite clear that the executive used the role's importance to her to prey on her. Whitney, a conservative christian from a different era, blamed herself and her alcoholism (which only got worse after her firing) for the incident and didn't go public with the story until she wrote a book years later and never named the man who preyed on her. While her role being reduced for that reason (Kirk romancing the alien of the week) is pretty lovely especially if she was hired as a lead, the show and Starfleet would be very different if the Captain could just date subordinate crewmen without consequence. Though the network suits didn't care much about workplace boundaries and military discipline per se, it was probably a good move ultimately.
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Sep 13, 2016 13:30
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Kin posted:Was there ever a Trek story where the current cast 'caught up' to an older generation of traveller moving at a slower speed due to their limited technology when they left Earth? Uhhhhhhhh..... Space Seed?
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Sep 13, 2016 13:40
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Kin posted:Was there ever a Trek story where the current cast 'caught up' to an older generation of traveller moving at a slower speed due to their limited technology when they left Earth? It seems generally assumed that all early human spaceflights are accounted for. There have been a few, especially in early TNG, where they'd find abandoned Earth vessels (Space Seed, It (along with "this is the generation that's finally going to fix the ship, you'll see!") was a pretty standard plot device in the Tom Baker era of Doctor Who, however.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:02
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The captain of USS Saratoga in Star Trek 4 is a woman. Also, Trila(?) Scott was a starship captain as of TNG Conspiracy in early 1988. Yeah, I do my best to forget the Turnabount Intruder and that's probably the best way to go about it. Star Trek, especially TOS, has some very loose continuity anyway. It contradicts itself a lot.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:23
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No point in denying that the episode exists or trying to forget it. As much as we would like to believe it is, Star Trek's ideology isn't always cool and good and there's a lot of episodes which are stupid/unconvincing on a thematic as well as a dramatic level. Not all of them are as morally jarring to most modern audiences as "Turnabout Intruder", but I'd prefer to take that episode as a reminder that the people who made the show weren't eternal paragons of virtue but rather could only write in the context of their society and their values. Of course if you believe in a "canon" that might be a bit harder, but imo it doesn't matter much that in the 60s they conceived of Starfleet in such a way that women were self evidently unfit for authority positions. Sign of the times.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:41
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Astroman posted:While her role being reduced for that reason (Kirk romancing the alien of the week) is pretty lovely especially if she was hired as a lead, the show and Starfleet would be very different if the Captain could just date subordinate crewmen without consequence. Though the network suits didn't care much about workplace boundaries and military discipline per se, it was probably a good move ultimately.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:43
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I do my best to forget the Turnabount Intruder and that's probably the best way to go about it. Star Trek, especially TOS, has some very loose continuity anyway. It contradicts itself a lot. Yeah, TOS is absolutely impossible to self-reconcile, so we may as well pick the better options.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:45
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