Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

The General: Mar 4, 2007

Rhyno posted:

I just want some goddamned Vulcans.

gently caress the Vulcans, what have they ever done aside from hold humanity back from the stars, be smug about baseball and everything else, and steal papers about ethics?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:16

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# ? May 25, 2024 03:51

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Master Bra-tac just showed up in a horrible Voyager episode and now I'd rather have more Stargate.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:27

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Gau posted:

There's a ton of rose-red nostalgia for Star Trek among the fans. I know we love to talk about how amazing "Measure of a Man" was but for every high-concept exercise in philosophy there are at least three schlocky space adventures and one or two duds. That's how TV works. When it was airing and not just rerunning or on Netflix, people tuned in NEXT TIME ON STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION not for the cerebral content but because it was another adventure with the Enterprise and her crew.

Trek is a space adventure show and pretending it's some kind of meditation on humanity is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Star Trek needs to be fun and relevant first and foremost. I don't watch anything on the CW but it seems they have genre shows down to a science and that's what I want out of Trek: fun space adventures with an overarching message of hope.

Steve Amell is a swell guy and they had some cool fight choreography from what I can remember, but part of what made Star Trek fun is that it would aim just a little higher than shows like Arrow. Genre stuff might be more prevalent these days because that's where the money is but the signal to noise ratio is about the same, and just because a thing is popular enough to make somebody profit doesn't mean it's worthwhile. I mean not every episode should be The Inner Light or The Visitor but drat some meditation on humanity is required or it won't be relevant. Besides have you see what passes for "thoughtful" popular television programming? For every show like Breaking Bad there are countless piss baby garbage crime/medical procedurals whose episodes often have themes that would make Code of Honour look positively progressive

I mean if you really want a big dumb sci fi action adventure show then bring back Stargate and see if the overly self referential parody that franchise became doesn't become old hat real quickly again

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:41

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Beachcomber posted:

He was in first grade, so I'm assuming about 6 years old, and still trying to tell the difference between a dog and a cat or a tree and a house. Even if the Federation has first grade at 3 years old, most toddlers have that down.

To be fair he probably lives lightcenturies away from earth, and earth dogs and earth cats look different than space dogs and space cats.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:42

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

It seems like there are two different conversations going on here. Whether or not the show has high production values and whether or not the show has meaningful episodes have almost nothing to do with each other.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:49

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

On looks: seeing as how one can produce effects similar or comparable to the previous series' with a free copy of Blender on almost any modern desktop I'm not going to lose sleep over a 5 dollar budget so long as they don't skimp on finding someone talented to design their poo poo.

That they apparently made a b-line for some of the fugliest rejected concept art in the history of the franchise does give me pause, however

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:55

Tears In A Vial: Jan 13, 2008

Tunicate posted:

To be fair he probably lives lightcenturies away from earth, and earth dogs and earth cats look different than space dogs and space cats.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:57

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

He also called this a house

# ? Sep 16, 2016 01:59

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Tears In A Vial posted:

Actually you know what, gently caress it, they should just lean into the whole 'no budget' thing and slavishly imitate the original show aesthetic, like to the point of making all the rocks out of expanding foam.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:05

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

WickedHate posted:

I came up with an episode idea similar to Galaxy Quest. In the middle of the season there's suddenly an episode taking place on Earth with a 2017 human being cryogenically unfrozen and waking up in the TOS era, but then it turns out it's only been 25 years and after a nuclear war the survivors modeled themselves off this old show. The 2017 human convinces them to drop the fiction and make their own future society.

In season 2 I hope they relentlessly criticize the unrealisticness of every happy idea the survivors have until they finally kill him - and make all his grim predictions come true!

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:07

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

showbiz_liz posted:

Actually you know what, gently caress it, they should just lean into the whole 'no budget' thing and slavishly imitate the original show aesthetic, like to the point of making all the rocks out of expanding foam.

It'll probably look like an iPad with some Ikea furniture that looks vaguely 60's kitsch put in for good measure because they're not going to hire anyone with the figurative balls to draw anything that looks different than what you can get at Best Buy because that is the Way Sci Fi Future Things Look Now, except for the rare instance like the movie Moon where it's a refreshing throwback to an industrial 80's aesthetic but not the ominous top-loading VHS player kind.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:11

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

I hope they lean into having silver and leather finish on tricorders and primary colour interior designs, just kinda updated. Keep the actual styles, but make them less cheap.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 03:45

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Tunicate posted:

He also called this a house

I would live in this house.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 03:48

Duckbox: Sep 7, 2007

bull3964 posted:

I'm still trying to figure out what's being argued. The original supposition was they look and feel cheep. To me, that's talking about production values. I would be shocked, like really shocked, if the production values of Discovery come anywhere close to 'The Flash' or 'Supernatural." Expecting them to be on Enterprise level is laughable. Enterprise cost about $5 mil an episode and I would be incredibly surprised if the budget per episode was even half that (to say nothing of pre-production budget.)

People need to have fan film with experienced director level of expectations. If it's anything beyond that, it's gravy.

Zurui posted:

Everything we've seen so far points to them having a shoestring budget and little support from the network. It's not going to be a flagship show.

This actually makes me more excited because I'm interested to see what Bryan Fuller can pull off creatively.

I don't think we've heard anything about Discovery's budget and it seems like the only 'evidence" of no budget you guys have is that it's on a streaming service and the teaser looked cheap.

First, the teaser tells us nothing because the show was still in pre-production and probably hadn't hired most of its staff yet. Its quality may be more reflective of a lack of time than money, and it's not even clear whether it was produced in-house or by some hacks brought in by marketing.

Second, Enterprise was on loving UPN for god's sake. If they could afford 5 mill an episode CBS certainly can. In fact, they've cut the season from 26 episodes to 13 so if they stayed at Ent's per-episode budget (and I don't see why people are assuming it will be no higher), they'd spend half as much per season.

Also yeah digital effects are waaaay cheaper than they were fifteen years ago and that's what ate up a huge portion of ENT's budget. Plus Trek isn't really about the effects. As long as the writing is good and they don't skimp on cast and crew, they can dig up the TOS sets and put all their aliens in togas again for all I care.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 04:52

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Duckbag posted:

Second, Enterprise was on loving UPN for god's sake. If they could afford 5 mill an episode

...what?!

# ? Sep 16, 2016 05:35

T.C.: Feb 10, 2004; Believe.

I bought the first "The Fifty Year Mission" book and I didn't realize that the format was pages of quotes strung together with minimal writing or analysis from the author. It makes the prose really piecemeal and the stories kind of exhausting to read. It also means that the writing isn't very tight because there is only so much editing you can reasonably do to quotations.

I'm not sure I'm interested in finishing it.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 06:06

Zurui: Apr 20, 2005; Even now...

showbiz_liz posted:

It seems like there are two different conversations going on here. Whether or not the show has high production values and whether or not the show has meaningful episodes have almost nothing to do with each other.

My suggestion that the CW would handle a show like this well (based on their experience with other genre shows) was torn apart because apparently Arrow is written like fanfiction - as if the inmates were not running the Star Trek asylum twice over now.

I think the central point is one that was made above though: we have a really inflated idea of what Star Trek is versus what it actually was at the time and it's affecting expectations for the new series.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 06:14

Number_6: Jul 23, 2006; BAN ALL GAS GUZZLERS

(except for mine); Pillbug

Isn't CW some kind of respawned zombie borne from the mouldering corpses of UPN and WB? And UPN was the parent network of Voyager. Not sure I like that family tree. If the powers that be had faith in Discovery, why doesn't CBS just make it a fully-budgeted prime time drama airing on actual CBS? They need the space for more CSI and NCIS spinoffs?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 07:17

Duckbox: Sep 7, 2007

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

...what?!

Yeah, now that I've thought about it a little, I really want to know where bull got that number.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 07:43

Duckbox: Sep 7, 2007

Zurui posted:

My suggestion that the CW would handle a show like this well (based on their experience with other genre shows) was torn apart because apparently Arrow is written like fanfiction - as if the inmates were not running the Star Trek asylum twice over now.

I think the central point is one that was made above though: we have a really inflated idea of what Star Trek is versus what it actually was at the time and it's affecting expectations for the new series.

Arrow (and pretty much the whole CW lineup) also has lots of garbage acting from people who were hired for their looks rather than their talent. Trek is by no means innocent on that count (and JJTrek was a step in the wrong direction), CW is the absolute nadir style-over-substance storytelling on network TV and If the new series turns out to be a bunch of dead-eyed millenials with great abs and generically handsome faces speaking in monotones and visibly struggling to remember their lines, I think I might cry.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 08:00

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

...what?!

It's possible that was the first season average, just because they blew a ridiculous amount on set-up at the start, assuming a seven-year run.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 09:56

Zurui: Apr 20, 2005; Even now...

Number_6 posted:

Isn't CW some kind of respawned zombie borne from the mouldering corpses of UPN and WB? And UPN was the parent network of Voyager. Not sure I like that family tree. If the powers that be had faith in Discovery, why doesn't CBS just make it a fully-budgeted prime time drama airing on actual CBS? They need the space for more CSI and NCIS spinoffs?

In short, yes.

They want a set of brands big enough to sell their streaming service: Star Trek, a Good Wife spinoff, and Big Brother. They see the writing on the wall with network TV and think they can translate that to streaming without any awareness of how streaming actually works.

quote:

�Having �Star Trek� as our first original is a declaration of how serious we are about building this service,� he said. CBS will take a cue from Netflix by using data mined from viewership patterns to inform development plans for future All Access originals. DeBevoise said the goal will be �targeting traditional CBS TV audiences and beyond but with a premium sensibility and an eye on international.�

That said, I'm probably going to drop Hulu or Netflix for All Access, at least for as long as Trek runs.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 10:35

Gonz: Dec 22, 2009; "Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

CBS is putting all their hopes in the "Threaten subscriber bank accounts with Corbomite if they try to cancel" strategy.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 11:32

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Duckbag posted:

Yeah, now that I've thought about it a little, I really want to know where bull got that number.

That's just what IMDB said.

In the 90s, TNG eventually grew to $2 mil an episode which would be almost $3.5 mil today.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 16, 2016

# ? Sep 16, 2016 13:35

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

T.C. posted:

I bought the first "The Fifty Year Mission" book and I didn't realize that the format was pages of quotes strung together with minimal writing or analysis from the author. It makes the prose really piecemeal and the stories kind of exhausting to read. It also means that the writing isn't very tight because there is only so much editing you can reasonably do to quotations.

I'm not sure I'm interested in finishing it.

I thought it was interesting, but if you can't stand that style you are not going to like it

# ? Sep 16, 2016 14:11

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

In TOS, how often is it Scotty's job to get the bad guy drunk so that they can get out of danger? I swear it happens at least twice.

Does the Federation compensate him for all of the rare liquor he goes through to do this?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 16:03

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

bull3964 posted:

It doesn't happen in the book. In the book Kirk and Spock go to engineering to inspect battle damage and when the turbolift doors open, Scotty is there holding Peter saying he can't get a hold of Bones.

I imagine that's what the original script did since novelizations are often based on early drafts. It was probably a pacing decision to have Scotty come to the bridge since going to engineering would break the action, even if it doesn't make narrative sense.

That's not exactly what I remember. I remember Saavik being there, too, and actually breaking down in tears (explained by her being half Romulan, apparently), but maybe that was a later scene in the book.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 16:17

egon_beeblebrox: Mar 1, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Doctor Butts posted:

In TOS, how often is it Scotty's job to get the bad guy drunk so that they can get out of danger? I swear it happens at least twice.

Does the Federation compensate him for all of the rare liquor he goes through to do this?

Only once, as far as I can tell. He had better have gotten compensated for his ancient liquor. Using it really got to the poor guy.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 17:00

Blast Fantasto: Sep 18, 2007; USAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

It's only once, but it's one of the best Trek scenes of all time

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEDZFoLmyA

# ? Sep 16, 2016 17:24

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Finster Dexter posted:

That's not exactly what I remember. I remember Saavik being there, too, and actually breaking down in tears (explained by her being half Romulan, apparently), but maybe that was a later scene in the book.

Don't remember the full details, only that it didn't happen on the bridge.

In the book, Saavik was his tutor and he had a bit of a crush on her. So there was a personal connection there.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 18:33

8one6: May 20, 2012; When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

Met posted:

I got 2 and a half minutes in and had to check my progress through the video because I thought I surely must almost done.

8 more minutes of this?!

Voyager's terribleness never ceases to amaze me.

I was watching the first part of Future's End today and they say it 3 loving times in the first 5 minutes of the episode.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 20:30

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Met posted:

I got 2 and a half minutes in and had to check my progress through the video because I thought I surely must almost done.

8 more minutes of this?!

This is amazing, not just for showcasing Voyager's ridiculousness but also for the way it was edited together. Those transitions are great.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 21:01

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Rhyno posted:

Julian even says "maybe I was just a bit slow."

I'm in the minority that likes super smart Julian who was no longer afraid to show off his genetic superiority.

I can enjoy it on its own merits as it appears (and the "super bored of all this poo poo" portrayal that Siddig did to undermine it) but it does undo a lot of character work rather than give meaning to it. Compare and contrast with B5 character development.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 22:01

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

MrL_JaKiri posted:

I can enjoy it on its own merits as it appears (and the "super bored of all this poo poo" portrayal that Siddig did to undermine it) but it does undo a lot of character work rather than give meaning to it. Compare and contrast with B5 character development.

Isn't B5 character development all the actors going crazy or dying ?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 22:24