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Cojawfee posted:I refuse to accept the Kelvinprise is that large. Did they ever say how large it is in any of the movies? Until they say something in a movie, I'm saying it's the same size as the original 1701/A
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Sep 21, 2016 03:23
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Knormal posted:In Beyond when Chekov is rattling off hull breaches he goes up to "level 31", the original Enterprise had 21 decks. So it's presumably at least 10 decks taller, even though it doesn't look it. Doesn't the turbolift shaft in STV go up to like 70 or something?
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Sep 21, 2016 03:31
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Gorgo Primus posted:The new one is the third edition though... Third edition of the encyclopaedia though, not the Chronology. They were different books.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:40
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Oops. Sorry about that.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:54
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Rhyno posted:Doesn't the turbolift shaft in STV go up to like 70 or something? Yes, but every scene not involving camping is bad, so
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Sep 21, 2016 04:03
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Trent posted:Yes, but every scene not involving  (This is how I feel about all media, tho)
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Sep 21, 2016 04:07
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Trent posted:Yes, but every scene not involving camping is bad, so 
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Sep 21, 2016 04:10
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Meh, that moment is good. The whole idea is still sort of dumb and bad. I guess I can give it a pass. Good response, though, I must admit.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:18
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I thought Rhyno was in agreement and using the screencap as a way to describe the post above was all that needed to be said.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:23
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The scenes of the main three being forced to relive their greatest painful memories is pretty decent. I read the novelization before seeing it so I am generally more partial to this film than most. I also do feel it captures the feel of the original series better than any of the rest of the films, no matter how much better they are otherwise.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:24
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What does Spock need with a marshmelon?
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Sep 21, 2016 04:26
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Star Trek V is a lot like many of the lamer episodes in that the overall thing is not very good and has loads of problems but there are just as many good aspects you can pick out and enjoy I would still rather watch that film for it's good scenes than pretty much anything made after First Contact and DS9's ending
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Sep 21, 2016 04:26
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The scene on not-10-Forward at the end is pretty good too.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:27
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Lord Hydronium posted:Is that where the goofy looking ships with a saucer attached to a single nacelle come from? The nice thing about the Kelvin design is that they realized you need something on the other side to visually balance it. If you've never seen, the original concept art for the Kelvin (then called the Iowa): 
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Sep 21, 2016 05:09
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Single nacelles just look so wrong.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:14
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Ever since someone brought it up earlier that the Romulan Bird of Prey may have been intended to be stolen Federation tech it has taken it's place as my favorite early non Enterprise Fed ship. It really is so pretty.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 05:27
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Rhyno posted:Single nacelles just look so right. ftfy
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Sep 21, 2016 06:50
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There's no balance!
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Sep 21, 2016 06:51
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It's space, there's no need for balance.
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Sep 21, 2016 07:04
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Cojawfee posted:It's space, there's no need for balance. Only if you want to go in circles, which is what happens when your center of mass is not in line with your center of thrust. *Yes, I am aware that most Trek ships aren't balanced...probably. I have no idea how much mass certain areas have relative to each-other or how center of thrust applies to a warp field.
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Sep 21, 2016 08:17
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Tighclops posted:Star Trek V is a lot like many of the lamer episodes in that the overall thing is not very good and has loads of problems but there are just as many good aspects you can pick out and enjoy I like Sybok a lot and think he's a very interesting non-villain. The camping is great except for the rock climbing, (and those goofy rocket boots), but really that movie's problem is how badly it drags in the second act. The "planet of peace" stuff is actually sort of a neat idea, but the execution is hopelessly botched and they spend way, way too long there with so little payoff (besides ripping off Star Wars over and over). As soon as they're back in space and crossing the great barrier, things are pretty solid straight to the end (except for the technobabble), but the sheer level of pointless contrivance it took to get there is unforgivable. I'm convinced that if you just cut out most of the middle third of that movie and tightened the pacing all around, you'd be left with a solid hour of scifi and human drama that would fit in comfortably with the Thirty Good Episodes of TOS. I don't think it would even need rewrites or reshoots, there's enough good stuff there already, it just needed a sufficiently merciless editor and some acknowledgement of how absurd it is to try to wring almost two hours of screen time out of a script that thin.
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Sep 21, 2016 08:33
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Watching "Relativity." Why couldn't Seven have worn a uniform regularly?
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Sep 21, 2016 08:41
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Zurui posted:Watching "Relativity." Why couldn't Seven have worn a uniform regularly? Because then they couldn't use photos of her in the catsuit while promoting the show. I agree that she looked great in a regular uniform.
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Sep 21, 2016 08:49
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8one6 posted:Because then they couldn't use photos of her in the catsuit while promoting the show. Yeah, the end of Season 3/ start of Season 4 is pretty much the exact point when Voyager stopped really trying to be Voyager and became TNG in the Delta Quadrant with lots of flashy gimmicks to keep people watching. Introducing a sexy new character and making every other episode revolve around her was a pretty obvious way of saying "this show is different now," but it wasn't the only one. They brought in the Borg because the only way they could think of to fix the crappy villain issue was to borrow one from TNG. They pretty much stopped bringing up the whole Maquis thing except for flashbacks (and, at the same time, gave Chakotay and Torres way less to do). They gave the Doctor more screen time because fans liked him (but, frankly, he was better in small doses), they introduced a "cool" new ship in the Delta Flyer because, hey, it worked for DS9. They brought the crew closer to the Alpha Quadrant, gave them a way of communicating with Star Fleet, and stopped even having the pretense that Voyager was low on resources, so the "lost in space" element was really undercut. They went completely overboard on the "fun" holodeck episodes. They added cute kids and tried various forced romances. They brought in TNG and TOS actors for gratuitous cameos. They ripped off popular movies (let's have a race of Predator-clones as villains... let's give the Borg some Xenomorph looking motherfuckers to fight...) and other Trek stories (Have we sent them to present day Earth yet? Have we made them evil yet? Have we shown future versions of them yet? We have? That's OK, do it again.). They even upped the shouting and explosions quotient because people like that sort of thing. Basically, anything you can think of that falls under the moniker "fanservice," Voyager tried it, because "servicing" fans is much easier than actually impressing us.
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Sep 21, 2016 09:44
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On the other hand, it's not like trying to be Voyager worked anyway.
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Sep 21, 2016 09:51
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, the end of Season 3/ start of Season 4 is pretty much the exact point when Voyager stopped really trying to be Voyager and became TNG in the Delta Quadrant with lots of flashy gimmicks to keep people watching... WickedHate posted:On the other hand, it's not like trying to be Voyager worked anyway. ^^^^ Rewatch Caretaker. Voyager abandoned its premises in the last 10 minutes of its pilot episode. "Two crews" that are indistinguishable from each other. gently caress, there's no real internal conflict on Voyager after the first season other than the guy spying for Seska.
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Sep 21, 2016 10:36
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I've been jumping around episodes and regardless of whether it "abandoned the premise" or sold out or whatever, later seasons of Voyager are pretty much universally better. It didn't necessarily grow a beard but it owned its identity as TNG II and ran with it.
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Sep 21, 2016 10:44
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No argument here. Most of the truly awful Voyager episodes are from those first three seasons and most of Voyager's greatest sins (lame villains, mundane "aliens," stilted dialog, garbled plots, endless technobabble) are right there in "Caretaker," but drat it, there was some imagination there too, and a sense of theme and purpose to it all. At least the show was doing its own dumb things instead of cribbing off someone else or bending over backwards to give the fans what they were supposed to want. At least it was about something. It was an inconsistent, ugly, and misguided mess of a show churned out by too many cooks without a real chef in sight. Sure no one involved knew what they were doing and there were a lot of turds on the menu, but hey, at least they were making up their own recipes. The later seasons are more likely to be palatable and served up some genuinely good stuff, but mostly they just played it safe, stuck to a formula, and gave the people the filling slop they thought they wanted. I'm not going to say I really grieve for Original Recipe Voyager (though I did like Kes, drat it), but there's still something kind of sad about seeing a greasy spoon replaced by an Olive Garden. e: Also, yeah, Seska might be the single worst part of early Voyager. Making the main Maquis troublemaker a Cardassian spy was a really craven way to dodge the two crews' conflict when they would have been better off playing it straight. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 10:46
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MikeJF posted:If you've never seen, the original concept art for the Kelvin (then called the Iowa):
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Sep 21, 2016 11:11
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Payndz posted:I've seen that before, but it looks so much better (and makes more sense) than what we got in the movie. If the Narada's arrival is where the timelines diverged, then everything before it should be in keeping with TOS, dammit! Little differences like that I assume are just natural retcons of a show from the sixties cobbled together without much thought for continuity or lasting into the next century.
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Sep 21, 2016 11:15
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So what happened with voyager? Did they look at DS9 and go "ok that's great, let's do absolutely nothing like that at all"?
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Sep 21, 2016 12:08
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lenoon posted:So what happened with voyager? Did they look at DS9 and go "ok that's great, let's do absolutely nothing like that at all"? Voyager actually tends to rank above DS9 among the average joe fan, so yes.
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Sep 21, 2016 12:16
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Subyng posted:The Kelvin is literally the best design in all of Trek.
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Sep 21, 2016 13:06
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WickedHate posted:Voyager actually tends to rank above DS9 among the average joe fan, so yes. Hey, at the time it was airing, and with only the first couple pre-dominion seasons going on, I was in agreement that DS9 wasn't proper Trek because it was a stationary doughnut in space rather than a ship going boldly. I was wrong, but it's not an uncommon or hard to understand viewpoint. I also think first season impressions of Mulgrew v Brooks lean her way. The Sisko becomes awesome, but sort of because Brooks somehow manages to pull off his outrageous level of Shatnering. edit: with only a thumbnail sketch of Voyager's premise, it should be the best Trek, dammit. What a loving waste.
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Sep 21, 2016 13:09
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remusclaw posted:Ever since someone brought it up earlier that the Romulan Bird of Prey may have been intended to be stolen Federation tech it has taken it's place as my favorite early non Enterprise Fed ship. It really is so pretty. I brought it up earlier. The Romulan BOP really does fit the Federation aesthetic, which is a grey\white ship with a saucer, 2-4 nacelles and sometimes an engineering section or some other thing attached to it. 
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Sep 21, 2016 13:54
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Trent posted:Hey, at the time it was airing, and with only the first couple pre-dominion seasons going on, I was in agreement that DS9 wasn't proper Trek because it was a stationary doughnut in space rather than a ship going boldly. BSG isn't Trek in tone, but I feel like it made good on what Voyager promised with its premise and glimpses of greatness like in "Year of Hell." I don't mourn for what Voyager failed to be because we've already got it. But, yeah, I know a lot of Trek friends who love Voyager. the biggest culprit still hasn't watched DS9 though, despite me watching Voyager as part of a pact. I've been betrayed, and all I have is ENT to console me. 
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Sep 21, 2016 13:54
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I've realized there's two kinds of people - DS9 people and Voyager people, because most everyone likes TOS and TNG to some degree. Nobody really cares for ENT that much. Voyager people are dumb and bad and should feel bad. Voyager people are like Doctor Who people.
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Sep 21, 2016 14:00
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lenoon posted:So what happened with voyager? Did they look at DS9 and go "ok that's great, let's do absolutely nothing like that at all"? According to Ron Moore (who only worked on Voyager briefly, late in its run, and is biased in any case), the core DS9 writers had a solid working relationship (the cast was a different story), cared immensely about the quality of their show, and were given wide latitude by the executives to tell the story they wanted. Michael Piller (who is often credited with saving TNG) seems to have laid a solid foundation in the first two years, but the show got even better when Ira Steven Behr took over and Berman and Piller mostly left them alone. Voyager seems to have been a different story entirely. The writing staff fought like cats and dogs and the show's creators either couldn't agree on a vision or didn't hire the right people to carry it out. Piller left after the first two years, Jeri Taylor (who was also showrunner for TNG's terrible seventh season) was either in over her head, exhausted by years of overwork, or just kind of a hack (like Braga, her name is on some great scripts, like "The Drumhead," but also a lot of irredeemable garbage like "Coda" -- both their names are on "Sub Rosa"), and Berman seems to have been more hands-on than he was with DS9, but, perhaps, less than helpful. Taylor left a few years in and after that, Brannon Braga was running the show, which probably accounts for the uptick in quality, but also the downward trend in creativity. Braga was very young for a showrunner and good at pumping out scripts, but he had a tin ear for dialog (especially plausible technobabble), and an unseemly fondness for "space magic" gimmick episodes). The writing staff had a lot of turnaround compared to DS9 as the old TNG alums started getting older and tired (or just got sick of working on this terrible show), and new people drifted in from the DS9 staff and elsewhere, so later seasons had hardly anyone in the room who was invested in the show's original premise or really knew who their characters were. It was also a bit of a "running the asylum" situation as Braga's whole writing/producing career had been on Trek and he brought in other people (like Bryan Fuller) who had a lot of enthusiasm for Trek, but were lacking in industry experience. People resented Braga and the way he ran the show (at least Moore certainly did and they had been close friends) and for expanding his girlfriend's role on the show at the expense of the original cast. It sounds like it was just awful. Later, Berman and Braga decided that they were brilliant writers with lots of great ideas, alienated everyone else, and killed the franchise for a decade. So as trite as it is to blame everything the two Bs (particularly when Piller and Taylor also majorly hosed up on Voyager), it's probably worth noting that DS9 is the only Trek spin-off where Braga didn't contribute a single script and the one where Berman was least involved after its initial conception. Funnily enough, DS9's "middle child" status may be what saved it. e: It's also worth noting that DS9 had a mandate to be distinct from the other Treks, so they they were forced to move away from the recycled plots and too-familiar characters that made the late Berman era so stultifying. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 14:15
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Rhyno posted:Doesn't the turbolift shaft in STV go up to like 70 or something? But that was just a dream sequence.
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Sep 21, 2016 14:26
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Duckbag posted:and other Trek stories (Have we sent them to present day Earth yet? Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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