Board Game Thread 4e: The Call of Catan

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Texibus: May 18, 2008

You're right, it takes around three. Dark Moon plays in a lot less time.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 21:33

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# ? May 30, 2024 06:14

SilverMike: Sep 17, 2007; TBD

bean mug posted:

Dark Moon isn't good? I haven't had the time to pick it up yet, but BSG is one of my favorite games and I know that was created as a faster alternative to BSG. I was hoping to pick it up eventually.

I'm with Tekopo on Dark Moon, the one time I played it I was incredibly put off by having to commit to a situation and then roll behind a screen. Being forced to drop a negative in if your dice roll poorly was not a fun mechanic for me. Just not enough control over your actions.

The rest of the game was alright aside from that, but that's kind of a big thing. I definitely won't be playing Dark Moon again.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 21:34

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Texibus posted:

You're right, it takes around three. Dark Moon plays in a lot less time.

That doesn't necessarily make it a better game though.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 21:34

Oldstench: Jun 29, 2007; Let's talk about where you're going.

Some Numbers posted:

That doesn't necessarily make it a better game though.

It's better in that it takes less time to play through an equivalently bad game. Bad in different ways, but still bad.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 21:37

Texibus: May 18, 2008

SilverMike posted:

I'm with Tekopo on Dark Moon, the one time I played it I was incredibly put off by having to commit to a situation and then roll behind a screen. Being forced to drop a negative in if your dice roll poorly was not a fun mechanic for me. Just not enough control over your actions.

The rest of the game was alright aside from that, but that's kind of a big thing. I definitely won't be playing Dark Moon again.

That was a plus for me, you never knew if it was bad rolls or them sabotaging the board. You needed other elements of the game than just what dice they're putting forth to accomplish missions, making it tougher to "solve" like Avalon or Resistance.

And yes shorter play time for me is a plus for that type of game. If you get put in prison or limited in actions because of some strong lobbying of false or true suspicions from loud players for a long time that sucks. So, It ends quick and you can move on to another game.

I'll temper that with only playing each of these games twice years ago.

Texibus fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 21, 2016

# ? Sep 21, 2016 21:55

Caedar: Dec 28, 2004; Will do there, buddy.

Merauder posted:

Last night the guy who got the $100 CFO bonus started with lots of hiring and training, then advertised to a corner that no one was able to contest him on (his nearest competition didn't do anything to reduce their prices and were more focused on each other than the inevitable winner), then used a NBD to drop several new houses in his corner round over round. As that started happening we all keyed in on the fact that he was about to get a ton of money, but it was a couple turns before any of us could try to influence the market in his area to render him unable to serve, but with all the extra RGs and Trainers he was already prepared with both cooks and drink pick ups, so there wasn't much that advertising could have done. I'm unsure if either having someone build a new restaurant near him, or simply trying to cut prices a bunch would have worked to cut off his income for a turn or two.

Yeah, if someone places their first restaurant in an isolated section of the map with lots of open space, you just need to expect that they're going to get the NBD and wreck face. The primary counter is having a Local/Regional Manager in hand for the turn they get the NBD.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 22:04

Vivian Darkbloom: Jul 14, 2004

Is Space Hulk: Death Angel going to be valuable in a year or so? I ask because I can probably steal my roommate's copy without him noticing.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 22:32

gutterdaughter: Oct 21, 2010; keep yr head up, problem girl

bean mug posted:

Dark Moon isn't good? I haven't had the time to pick it up yet, but BSG is one of my favorite games and I know that was created as a faster alternative to BSG. I was hoping to pick it up eventually.

Talk me out of T.I.M.E Stories, please. I watched SUSD's review but that still convinced me I want to own this game. Some people on BGG love it, my SO is hesitant to plunge for the high costs vs short playtime (Pandemic Legacy was tough to get because he hated the idea of a game eventually not having replay value), and I hate myself.

Dark Moon has two critical problems compared to BSG.

First, the random element in BSG is semi-traceable, and can help you ferret out suspects. Because everyone draws different cards, and because the destiny deck has a predictable pattern, you can start eliminating suspects for spiking checks. The check also has a commitment variable: You can choose to abstain, or to commit only a minimal amount, but this is public information.

The random element in Dark Moon is not: Everyone functionally rolls the same dice, and everyone MUST sbmit everyone has the same general chances of loving the roll. Meaning you have no reliable way of developing or confirming hypotheses about who is spiking and who is just failing at dice.

Second, Dark Moon just doesn't offer you much choice in the way of What To Do At Any Given Time.

Let's assume you're a human in BSG. It's your turn. The cylon raiders are closing in on the civs, the centurion's getting frisky, and you can't afford to lose any fuel. You have a Launch Scout and an XO and only a foggy idea of who can be trusted. What do you do? This is an interesting decision, and only one of many potential devil's choices in the game. And even better, since only you see the cards in your hand, only you really know the options available to you, which creates an uncertain space for Cylons to work in.

Now let's assume you're a human in Dark Moon. Your options are usually "fix the obvious broken thing," "order someone else to fix the obvious broken thing," or pass. You can also accuse someone...which is usually a giant waste of time. (And I'm not even going to dignify the Lone Wolf action.) Basically, the meat of the game plays on autopilot. And for the Infected, the lack of plausible play choices means you have very few places you can cause real mischief.

Basically, BSG has a co-op game at its core, before the traitors add a wrench to the kneecap. Dark Moon's game is a cursory dice chucker underneath its traitor mechanic. And at that point, you might as well forego the nominal dice game and just play Resistance/Avalon.

Here's a forums PBP of Dark Moon. By the end, we were just begging for it to be over.

As for TIME Stories, it's plain hot garbage. It wouldn't even pass muster as a loving CYOA book, let alone a $60 box with expansions. Tales of the Arabian Nights has more meaningful choices, fer chrissakes.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 22:50

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Color me enthused for A Feast For Odin.

It seems like there are a lot of hidden interactions and levers to pull, but also a decent amount of guidance in the way of occupation cards and more opportunities for differentiated development than similar fuckton-of-actions game Fields of Arle.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:04

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

Gutter Owl posted:

Dark Moon has two critical problems compared to BSG.

First, the random element in BSG is semi-traceable, and can help you ferret out suspects. Because everyone draws different cards, and because the destiny deck has a predictable pattern, you can start eliminating suspects for spiking checks. The check also has a commitment variable: You can choose to abstain, or to commit only a minimal amount, but this is public information.

The random element in Dark Moon is not: Everyone functionally rolls the same dice, and everyone MUST sbmit everyone has the same general chances of loving the roll. Meaning you have no reliable way of developing or confirming hypotheses about who is spiking and who is just failing at dice.

Second, Dark Moon just doesn't offer you much choice in the way of What To Do At Any Given Time.

Let's assume you're a human in BSG. It's your turn. The cylon raiders are closing in on the civs, the centurion's getting frisky, and you can't afford to lose any fuel. You have a Launch Scout and an XO and only a foggy idea of who can be trusted. What do you do? This is an interesting decision, and only one of many potential devil's choices in the game. And even better, since only you see the cards in your hand, only you really know the options available to you, which creates an uncertain space for Cylons to work in.

Now let's assume you're a human in Dark Moon. Your options are usually "fix the obvious broken thing," "order someone else to fix the obvious broken thing," or pass. You can also accuse someone...which is usually a giant waste of time. (And I'm not even going to dignify the Lone Wolf action.) Basically, the meat of the game plays on autopilot. And for the Infected, the lack of plausible play choices means you have very few places you can cause real mischief.

Basically, BSG has a co-op game at its core, before the traitors add a wrench to the kneecap. Dark Moon's game is a cursory dice chucker underneath its traitor mechanic. And at that point, you might as well forego the nominal dice game and just play Resistance/Avalon.

Here's a forums PBP of Dark Moon. By the end, we were just begging for it to be over.

As for TIME Stories, it's plain hot garbage. It wouldn't even pass muster as a loving CYOA book, let alone a $60 box with expansions. Tales of the Arabian Nights has more meaningful choices, fer chrissakes.

I couldn't have put this any better. Dark Moon can be fun with the right crowd, but only for the same reasons any game could be fun with the right crowd.

I sold my copy of Dark Moon for $10 at a board game swap meet and that was fine.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:12

bean mug: Nov 11, 2011; you think you can just say things to me?

Gutter Owl posted:

Dark Moon has two critical problems compared to BSG.

First, the random element in BSG is semi-traceable, and can help you ferret out suspects. Because everyone draws different cards, and because the destiny deck has a predictable pattern, you can start eliminating suspects for spiking checks. The check also has a commitment variable: You can choose to abstain, or to commit only a minimal amount, but this is public information.

The random element in Dark Moon is not: Everyone functionally rolls the same dice, and everyone MUST sbmit everyone has the same general chances of loving the roll. Meaning you have no reliable way of developing or confirming hypotheses about who is spiking and who is just failing at dice.

Second, Dark Moon just doesn't offer you much choice in the way of What To Do At Any Given Time.

Let's assume you're a human in BSG. It's your turn. The cylon raiders are closing in on the civs, the centurion's getting frisky, and you can't afford to lose any fuel. You have a Launch Scout and an XO and only a foggy idea of who can be trusted. What do you do? This is an interesting decision, and only one of many potential devil's choices in the game. And even better, since only you see the cards in your hand, only you really know the options available to you, which creates an uncertain space for Cylons to work in.

Now let's assume you're a human in Dark Moon. Your options are usually "fix the obvious broken thing," "order someone else to fix the obvious broken thing," or pass. You can also accuse someone...which is usually a giant waste of time. (And I'm not even going to dignify the Lone Wolf action.) Basically, the meat of the game plays on autopilot. And for the Infected, the lack of plausible play choices means you have very few places you can cause real mischief.

Basically, BSG has a co-op game at its core, before the traitors add a wrench to the kneecap. Dark Moon's game is a cursory dice chucker underneath its traitor mechanic. And at that point, you might as well forego the nominal dice game and just play Resistance/Avalon.

Here's a forums PBP of Dark Moon. By the end, we were just begging for it to be over.

As for TIME Stories, it's plain hot garbage. It wouldn't even pass muster as a loving CYOA book, let alone a $60 box with expansions. Tales of the Arabian Nights has more meaningful choices, fer chrissakes.

Thank you for the explanation! I guess it's good that I never managed to pick Dark Moon up. BSG can be a timesink for sure, but we all really enjoy it.

Re: TIME Stores thanks for all the input. I think the theme just appeals to me and I really, really, hate myself. I really enjoyed the Zero Escape video game series (time traveling/multiverse theory escape room games that sometimes make you play it over & over until you get it right) and it feels kind of similar. I feel like if it were $30 I could justify the price to myself easily, but at $50 it just sounds like a terrible decision.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:16

gutterdaughter: Oct 21, 2010; keep yr head up, problem girl

bean mug posted:

I really enjoyed the Zero Escape video game series (time traveling/multiverse theory escape room games that sometimes make you play it over & over until you get it right) and it feels kind of similar.

My friend, let me introduce you to Tragedy Looper. It is a Good Game�*

*that has been repeatedly hosed up by its english language distributor, Z-Man Games. Just make sure to check the errata on BGG.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:22

Papes: Apr 13, 2010; There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

Time stories used to be $30 online but I doubt it is anymore with the new pricing floors.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:24

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

I still like the concept behind Time Stories, it's an interesting direction to experiment in. I never picked it up but to be honest I do look at some games I have and I'm like "god, what the hell was I thinking?"

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:29

Impermanent: Apr 1, 2010

I own a copy of Temporum that makes me ask myself that question every day.

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:49

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Gutter Owl posted:

My friend, let me introduce you to Tragedy Looper. It is a Good Game�*

*that has been repeatedly hosed up by its english language distributor, Z-Man Games. Just make sure to check the errata on BGG.

As far as I know the base game's only errata is the Boss's passive ability (which is meant to apply only to his own abilities, not to those of other characters).

# ? Sep 21, 2016 23:53

Fate Accomplice: Nov 30, 2006

Impermanent posted:

I own a copy of Temporum that makes me ask myself that question every day.

I managed to sell mine for $7 less than I paid for it after 3 plays and I was thrilled

# ? Sep 22, 2016 00:01

gutterdaughter: Oct 21, 2010; keep yr head up, problem girl

Lottery of Babylon posted:

As far as I know the base game's only errata is the Boss's passive ability (which is meant to apply only to his own abilities, not to those of other characters).

There's one other that I know of, which is a misprinted role on the Scenario 8 Mastermind Card. It might have been fixed in the second printing.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 00:03

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Impermanent posted:

I own a copy of Temporum that makes me ask myself that question every day.

Temporum is a bit of a Marmite game, I think. It hits the table regularly at both my groups. The guy who hates Dominion and Kingdom Builder bought his own copy after playing mine.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 00:46

Shadin: Jun 28, 2009

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Is Space Hulk: Death Angel going to be valuable in a year or so? I ask because I can probably steal my roommate's copy without him noticing.

If he has the expansions, steal it and sell them to me now.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 01:34

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

One easily missed rule in Dark Moon is that every passed challenge adds another cube to the event (idk the actual terms since I don't own the game) so there's actually a fixed set of turns unless the players absolutely gently caress things up all the time (at which point, just like in BSG, the infected should reveal). It does introduce the 10 second identity card thing which is actually something to bring to BSG, but ultimately it's shorter and more random than BSG which may or may not be all that great.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 01:39

bobvonunheil: Mar 18, 2007; Board games and tea

Mister Sinewave posted:

I still like the concept behind Time Stories, it's an interesting direction to experiment in. I never picked it up but to be honest I do look at some games I have and I'm like "god, what the hell was I thinking?"

It's a cool idea for sure. I tend to feel that these kinds of games would work much better if they were app-driven, ala Mansions of Madness 2E.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 01:43

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

Stumbled on this boardgame survey thing via BGG. Describes me fairly accurately although the categories involved seem too broad to use for recommendations. Like, I enjoy conflict but I don't like games where you can just indiscriminately dogpile people whereas they really don't distinguish between bad, Risk style direct conflict and good, modern style direct conflict where your aggression is capped in some manner. Similarly, the strategy games I prefer are rather outside the typical euro trappings of resource competition and exchange efficiency. My 31% chance rating is my love for card games and tolerance of dice in wargames. An interesting idea at any rate.

https://goo.gl/63USpt

# ? Sep 22, 2016 02:10

Vivian Darkbloom: Jul 14, 2004

Shadin posted:

If he has the expansions, steal it and sell them to me now.

Do the expansions add some more depth to the game, or is it just more space dudes and monsters? I felt the base game was fun and claustrophobic but a little one-dimensional.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 02:13

Dr. Video Games 0069: Jan 1, 2006; nice dolphin, nigga

PerniciousKnid posted:

Yes, but in the context of adapting to board games, I think the gameplay loop is critically different. Like, I don't think Star Craft The Board Game is your starting point for a MOBA adaptation.

As another example, fighters and brawlers are cut from the same video game cloth, but you wouldn't pitch Final Fight TBG as "BattleCON but co-op against 4-6 bots". Or at least, I wouldn't. They've evolved fundamentally different gameplay loops.

A lot of MOBAs, at least the ones I've played, break down to getting your guys into the right place and knowing where their guys are so that you can apply pressure when the enemy misplays. It's more like area control than pvp combat, though granted it's obfuscated beneath countless layers of game knowledge and clicking fast, plus drafting or building the appropriate counters to the enemy's team, which are definitely the more visible parts of the genre.

I definitely think a MOBA board game could be designed around this more macro style of play. Like maybe you have a ton of options to pick for your character and abilities, but engagements with the other team are designed around improving your positioning and map control rather than straight killin dudes.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 05:05

Ayn Randi: Mar 12, 2009; Grimey Drawer

I was thinking about how much I love (looove) food chain magnate and then realised I don't actually have any other games in my collection like it, and I'd probably like some of those. Economic games I guess that would be? Are there any other must-haves of that general sort of genre? Train games need not apply sorry

even typing "train games" made my eyes glaze over a bit

# ? Sep 22, 2016 06:59

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

I love FCM too and The Great Zimbabwe is so far making the same pieces of my brain light up in slightly different but just as :shepface:

ways.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 07:04

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

bobvonunheil posted:

It's a cool idea for sure. I tend to feel that these kinds of games would work much better if they were app-driven, ala Mansions of Madness 2E.

I just got MoM 2e in the mail; I'm looking forward to trying out the app enabled angle (once I finish my Cuba Libre game)

# ? Sep 22, 2016 07:05

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

Ayn Randi posted:

I was thinking about how much I love (looove) food chain magnate and then realised I don't actually have any other games in my collection like it, and I'd probably like some of those. Economic games I guess that would be? Are there any other must-haves of that general sort of genre? Train games need not apply sorry even typing "train games" made my eyes glaze over a bit

Rolling Stock, Imperial/Imperial 2030, Container, maybe Arkwright and Wealth of Nations though I've heard mixed things about the last two. Acquire if you're looking for something light.

What do you not like about train games? Because some people who like train games hate 18xx and say they aren't train games.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 07:39

Ayn Randi: Mar 12, 2009; Grimey Drawer

cenotaph posted:

Rolling Stock, Imperial/Imperial 2030, Container, maybe Arkwright and Wealth of Nations though I've heard mixed things about the last two. Acquire if you're looking for something light.

What do you not like about train games? Because some people who like train games hate 18xx and say they aren't train games.

Thanks, I'll see if I can find somewhere to take a look but then again finding an out of print splotter in australia or getting it shipped for less than the cost of the game itself... ugh

cenotaph posted:

Rolling Stock, Imperial/Imperial 2030, Container, maybe Arkwright and Wealth of Nations though I've heard mixed things about the last two. Acquire if you're looking for something light.

What do you not like about train games? Because some people who like train games hate 18xx and say they aren't train games.

To be fair to train games I'm probably tarring them all with the 18xx brush.. I don't usually consider myself a big theme person but something about "trains" as a theme just causes my eyes to slide right off when people start talking about them, so I don't ever internalise the differences. Due to the 18xx association I also see "train game" and have visions of day long games of stock trading, not hugely appealing. Route building as a mechanic I can take or leave also, depending what it's attached to. I've just never seen a recommendation with a hook great enough (and not done well elsewhere) to bother engaging with all the other bits I'm solidly meh about, but maybe that game is out there, I just get the impression you've got to be a train game person to get into them

# ? Sep 22, 2016 08:15

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Ayn Randi posted:

I was thinking about how much I love (looove) food chain magnate and then realised I don't actually have any other games in my collection like it, and I'd probably like some of those. Economic games I guess that would be? Are there any other must-haves of that general sort of genre?

Arkwright for sure.

TGZ isn't out of print right now, but I take your point on shipping.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 08:27

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

Ayn Randi posted:

Thanks, I'll see if I can find somewhere to take a look but then again finding an out of print splotter in australia or getting it shipped for less than the cost of the game itself... ugh

To be fair to train games I'm probably tarring them all with the 18xx brush.. I don't usually consider myself a big theme person but something about "trains" as a theme just causes my eyes to slide right off when people start talking about them, so I don't ever internalise the differences. Due to the 18xx association I also see "train game" and have visions of day long games of stock trading, not hugely appealing. Route building as a mechanic I can take or leave also, depending what it's attached to. I've just never seen a recommendation with a hook great enough (and not done well elsewhere) to bother engaging with all the other bits I'm solidly meh about, but maybe that game is out there, I just get the impression you've got to be a train game person to get into them

If you don't like stock holding you've eliminated 90% or more of the economic games out there.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 09:40

minema: May 31, 2011

I'm going away next week and taking only hand luggage on. When we get there we'll have plenty of room. I'm looking for a game that packs down small but is at least medium weight and length. I've got Valley of Kings and Hanabi but I'd like something else a bit longer.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 10:46

Dancer: May 23, 2011

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154600292600972&id=684680971

# ? Sep 22, 2016 11:24

Dancer: May 23, 2011

minema posted:

I'm going away next week and taking only hand luggage on. When we get there we'll have plenty of room. I'm looking for a game that packs down small but is at least medium weight and length. I've got Valley of Kings and Hanabi but I'd like something else a bit longer.

Maaaaybe a bit light for you (I think so, but my regular group is full of wimps who almost never play it because "it's too difficult") but Istanbul might fit the bill very well. Although it's not so great at two players, if you're only with your partner.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 11:26

Andarel: Aug 4, 2015

Planet Steam is also an excellent economic/market game.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:22

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

minema posted:

I'm going away next week and taking only hand luggage on. When we get there we'll have plenty of room. I'm looking for a game that packs down small but is at least medium weight and length. I've got Valley of Kings and Hanabi but I'd like something else a bit longer.

Spyrium.

Bomarzo will pack into a couple of small bags and a padded envelope for the boards. Plays four in just over an hour but it's seriously meaty.

And of course, Tiny Epic Kingdoms or Galaxies.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:09

JohnnySavs: Dec 28, 2004; I have all the characteristics of a human being.

minema posted:

I'm going away next week and taking only hand luggage on. When we get there we'll have plenty of room. I'm looking for a game that packs down small but is at least medium weight and length. I've got Valley of Kings and Hanabi but I'd like something else a bit longer.

Neanderthal or the other Eklund games pack quite a bit into tiny boxes.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:55